The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Black Raven on December 28, 2011, 10:38:38 pm
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Sorry if this is in the wrong section on here.
Has anyone ever set up or been part of a co-op owning and rearing livestock?
I'd really like to have some sheep, but I would find it hard to do all the necessary work on my own and I'd quite like someone elses input into owning them.
How would you go about setting it up and finding willing 'victims' as mad as me? ;D
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Hello BR , you could try getting the sheep , and offering x amount of lamb/mutton/wool , for y amount of help at the required times . No help = no meat/wool etc . That would work ok for a few sheep .
( by the way , the pork was fantastic ,many thanks xxx)
cheers Russ
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That's a really good idea BR. I have the land, sheep, pigs, poultry,veggies, but could do so much more with it all if I had a like-minded person to share it all with. The OH is very good but is not a country person and has no instinct with livestock.
I think the only problem would be to find someone genuinely keen and not a dreamer who thinks it's all leaning on a gate and watching things grow ::) We all know it's hard work, mud, early risings and out in ALL weathers :o
So, where to find someone? It would be awkward to take someone on, think, oh, this will be o.k. only to find a few months down the road that they would prefer to stay in bed in the mornings and let you do the lion's share of the work. How would you get rid of them? (unless Robert lived next door ;D ;D)
Anyone in the Newton Abbot, Devon area keen to come in?? :-* :-*
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Look at Share farming. This came top of the list on a google search
http://www.ddc-wales.co.uk/client_files/share_farming_booklet1.pdf (http://www.ddc-wales.co.uk/client_files/share_farming_booklet1.pdf)
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Raven, I've just ended up on my own and, having swapped breeds, so that now I have some sheep small enough to handle by myself, am not finding it difficult to look after them myself.
Advice for would-be solo shepherdess:
1. Get a small, hardy breed (I have Shetlands now) and don't have too many to start with
2. Join that breed society and also get to know some local sheep farmers, of whatever breed
3. Train your sheep to come to a bucket
4. Work out the best place to gather them and make this handling area work for you (this is the bit I don't have sorted out as well as I'd like yet)
You can get people in to shear them - most folk do. Other than that, it's dosing and feet clipping, neither is hard, and lambing - again, if you get a hardy breed they'll mainly manage that themselves.
You're very welcome to come over here and see how things are arranged if you'd like.
I'd go for it ;)
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Hi Black Raven
we are part of a co-op. we provide the land, water, I feed them and others put in the financials' and help as and when needed. Message me if you would like to know more. It has advantages and disadvantages for all concerned but I'm more than happy to have a chat :)
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Look at Share farming. This came top of the list on a google search
http://www.ddc-wales.co.uk/client_files/share_farming_booklet1.pdf (http://www.ddc-wales.co.uk/client_files/share_farming_booklet1.pdf)
I will peruse that later thank you for putting it up. Thanks for all the replies, I was a bit hesitant at first, but I always remind myself everyone had to start somewhere. :) I will say that I never just jump in and get an animal on a whim though, I see too many poor animals that are impulse purchases with the rescue we run.
Does everyone agree that re:sheep they are a good animal to start with? I do have a little bit of experience as I used to help out with a friends Herdies and his fab goats when he had them. Plus I helped the shepherdess who I lodged with when I lived near Stokenchurch Bucks. The estate had about 3000 sheep and I loved lambing time. Hard work, but amazing.
My short list would be Shetland, Hebridean or Boreray. Any plus /minus points for these breeds?
I'm lucky to have quite a few farming neighbours, one of them has just put my new chicken fencing up, so I know I'd be able to call on professional help if I needed it. Another has a small flock of Manx :thumbsup:
Hi Black Raven
we are part of a co-op. we provide the land, water, I feed them and others put in the financials' and help as and when needed. Message me if you would like to know more. It has advantages and disadvantages for all concerned but I'm more than happy to have a chat :)
I'd like to know more about the pros and cons plumseverywhere. Do you have sheep?
Jaykay don't invite me up you may find an unwanted lodger in your outbuildings ;D ;D
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Hi BR
yes its sheep in the co-op. have PM'd you with how we do it. I also keep goats and chickens of my own. Sheep have been a steep learning curve but they've done a great job keeping our orchard grass down bless them!
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We got half a dozen commercial sheep for lawn mowing purposes and learned from there, admittedly from already having horses, dogs, cats, chickens and bees.
Everyone has their view on sheep breeds. Small ones are less to wrestle but are able to jump higher. It doesn't matter what you start with, though, because you just need to get the basics sorted out. Ours have all been bucket trained so no dog needed, just good fences and lots and lots of hurdles. Plus a vet.
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I think it all depends on how much and what kind of land you have got. If only an acre or two, breeding sheep would be quite difficult, but you could rear a couple of lambs for the freezer quite easily, then rest the field until next summer. If you want longterm sheep (and are interested in the fleece/wool), then having a couple of adults (preferably wethers) would give you lawn mowing plus wool, but would need winter care (hay, feed etc etc).
Also before you decide on the breed think exactly what you want from your sheep - if you are only interested in meat than a sheep that doesn't need shearing is obviously a good idea.
Shetlands are great (mine have yet to try and jump the fence), and there are quite a few small flocks around the country, so sourcing good stock should not be a problem. Hebs and Borerays may be quite difficult to get hold off, unless you know of a local breeder. Shetlands are also a good breed for someone keeping them on their own, I can up-end my Shetland tup quite easily, haven't tried the Texel yet... (and he is only a tup lamb...)
I have a small flock of white pedigree shetland (I like to play around with natural dyes) for wool and meat for our own use, plus now a flock of commercial ewes plus texel tup to pay for my non-profit smallholding animals/hobbies.
We currently have an agreement with a friend/colleague and we are rearing two weaners and he will buy one of them at the point of slaughter. Means that I have an outlet for my goatsmilk and we only need one pig for our own needs. Not sure I would want a fully-fledged Co-op, as I like to keep my options open....
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From my own (very limited) experience, keeping (shetland) sheep is very easy; most of the time they look after themselves (as long as they've got grazing, water, lick and a bit of shelter), and it's just a matter of looking them over once or twice every day to see that they're happy and heathy. Feet and shearing can be scheduled at your convenience, and it's only if they develop a problem that it gets difficult - but not much more difficult than any other species.
They can jump over standard sheep netting, but my ewes seem to only do so when provoked (like leaving chicken/sheep feed in view on the other side).
They seem to be able to figure out for themselves what plants are poisonous and leave them alone.
Just bucket train them and devise a way to corral them for when you need it (being bucket trained is very handy for this).
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i agree with choosing the right breed. we changed from hebridean to boreray and find them much much easier to handle on my own. we keep 6 or 7 to the acre. our 1st sheep (inherited with farm) were big mules, and too big to turn - i do like
handles horns....lol
how do ur sheep co-ops work? we do a "buy-a-piglet scheme" so am curious to see how that translates to sheep.
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Also before you decide on the breed think exactly what you want from your sheep - if you are only interested in meat than a sheep that doesn't need shearing is obviously a good idea.
I guess you mean a self-rooing one, Anke - you being in Scotland and Black Raven in The Lakes, a fleeceless one would not be the best option! :brrrr: !
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Also before you decide on the breed think exactly what you want from your sheep - if you are only interested in meat than a sheep that doesn't need shearing is obviously a good idea.
I guess you mean a self-rooing one, Anke - you being in Scotland and Black Raven in The Lakes, a fleeceless one would not be the best option! :brrrr: !
Don't panic I have an afore mentioned sister (the who wants me to get an Alpaca) who knits! ;D ;D
Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I'm going to see who is out there who may be interested and also have a good think and see what local land is available.
I would prefer a rare breed of sheep, so the Shetland and Hebridean are definately worth a look. We have someone near by who breeds Hebrideans, so may not be too hard to source. Not mad on Texels, love Rough fells, but oh too much hair ;) and Herdies are naughty!! I'm thinking a couple of different breeds may be a good way to start. That's pretty much what I did with the hens until I decided on the Blue Orpingtons and Pekins.
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I guess you mean a self-rooing one, Anke - you being in Scotland and Black Raven in The Lakes, a fleeceless one would not be the best option! :brrrr: !
soay are a good scottish breed that dont need shearing.
I'm thinking a couple of different breeds may be a good way to start. That's pretty much what I did with the hens until I decided on the Blue Orpingtons and Pekins.
we started off with a mixed batch of rarebreed sheep from someone who was going to set up a farm park but changed their mind. we had wensleydale, soay, herdwick and hebridean then choose to narrow it down to the hebrideans. choose what u like best and what suits your land.
;D ;D
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It's maybe not the work so much when you're doing it on your own, I enjoy that, but it being a bit solitary. I would love someone there perhaps to open a gate when I have my hands full of buckets and a bundle of hay or straw under my arm, plodging through mud with porkers nipping at my wellies and trying to walk between my legs :o
Also someone to share with the sight of the crows dive-bombing the buzzards or a rare bird or the sight of the piglets almost lost in the grass as they look for their mum. Someone to share ideas with or to have ideas of their own to discuss.
Even someone to bang in a fencing stake while I keep it upright. Someone enthusiastic and a bit dedicated. I will keep looking ;)
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My experience with hebs is a little different. I started with 4 heb wethers who were tough and healthy, but quite flighty and could jump like a mountain goat! Standard sheep hurdles are no good if they get spooked, they will clear them with a standing jump. They got eaten, very tasty, but stronger darker meat than standard hogget, and the carcase is smaller. I have gone back to commercial breed now. I have southdowns that are small, docile, greedy (they come racing to the bucket), and taste superb. I will say they need more watching and regular care (worming,pour ons,feet), but its nice to be more hands on with them, and amazing how you learn and become more confident. good luck :thumbsup:
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sylvia, i wish i lived closer!!
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I wish you did too :) Never mind, it will all work out for the best.
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I know I could never be part of a co-op as I'm too independant-minded and bolshy :o :D Same for my OH ::) We have been searching for an alternative way to have help with our smallholding, but so far the best is our local smallholding group, where we do help eachother out with big things like haymaking, putting on roofs and so on. OH says he was listening to a radio talk about living in a commune - those who have done it said that far from having to be kind and thoughtful to everyone, you actually have to be hard and brutal to survive, otherwise you just get trampled on - interesting. I know you are just contemplating a co-op not a commune BR. My main thought with that is that too much time is spent on reaching decisions, so it's better to have one person who is the leader.
For choosing which breed of sheep to have - well, obviously Hebrideans have a special link with Windermere, so that gives them a head start for you. Some people find them too feisty, but we have found that lambs born on our holding are becoming more amenable with each year, so that our flock is perfectly manageable. We are gentle when we handle them and most of the time they get to do what they want to, which includes unzipping our pockets to look for biscuits.
All the primitives are very tasty, each in their own way, so there is little to choose between them for eating. A smaller carcase is more use for a small family than a huge one which ends up with wastage.
Rarity value is relevant if you want a rarer breed. Shetlands are very numerous now (as well as being a commercial breed in their home islands) although they have plenty of other traits to recommend them. Boreray are extremely rare and could do with as many new flocks as they can get. The Soay and Boreray Sheep Soc looks after them, and stock can be obtained from Julie Suffolk who lives near Macclesfield. Hebrideans are now quite numerous, except for the multi-horns and other older types, which are only just hanging in there, so in a way they are a rare breed within a traditional breed.
Products- we have looked at meat, but the other main product is wool. Shetlands have by far the most versatile fleece, both for colour and texture; I love the double Hebridean fleece and spin and knit it every day; Boreray fleece is coarser and difficult to catch before it roos itself. Remember that the wool has to be spun before your sister can knit it. Either one of you will need to learn to spin ( :thumbsup:) or you will need to collect up enough for a mill run, usually about 20-25kgs, and save up to pay for it - looks like learning to spin then ;D
It is well worth spending some time looking at the breeds you are contemplating and hearing different opinions. Many breeders are happy to show you round and answer any questions you have - you are welcome to visit here for example. You can then work out what is right for you and your situation. Often starting with Shetlands is a good idea as they are easy to manage in general, there are plenty to choose from, they are tasty and you can use the fleece. On the downside, they are not particularly exciting to look at, whereas Hebrideans are pretty spectacular, especially those with lots of horns.
There are more considerations for choosing a breed but I need to go and put dinner on the table ::)
Sorry if this is in the wrong section on here.
Has anyone ever set up or been part of a co-op owning and rearing livestock?
I'd really like to have some sheep, but I would find it hard to do all the necessary work on my own and I'd quite like someone elses input into owning them.
How would you go about setting it up and finding willing 'victims' as mad as me? ;D
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i find my boreray wool is softer than the hebridean by far. it handsheared so easily. also out of our 4 ewes, only 1 was self shedding. we sold our fleeces to a lady in england who is trying to promote the boreray fleeces and sent samples to usa for analysis. hopefully if it is marketed in the way they are trying to, the boreray wool can be sold at a premium, and hopefully that will be enough to increase their numbers.
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Hmmm lots to think about and I will think over all the good and bad points carefully. Obviously the Hebrideans are nearby and have caught my eye, but the Boreray I really like too, and rare breeds are close to my heart. Not wanting or needing to make money out of them, it is just for pleasure (I know I'm nuts!) Can you borrow tups?? ;D
The idea of a smallholders group is a seriously good plan, but as far as I know there is nothing like that here. Maybe that's something that wants thinking about too. I know plenty of peeps who would be interested too.
I had the option of going into a co-op with some other 'ladies' (they might be ladies, my dear old Dad said I wasn't much of one -tom boy yes, lady no!), but I quickly dismissed that one as I am far too stubborn, so again that was one reason for asking the question in the first place about co-ops, as I wasn't entirely sure if it would be workable for me. I'm self employed and I like it that way. Dave (OH) will just have to come and get muddy with me more often. ;D
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Have a look at community supported agriculture (CSA) schemes. The soil association should know if there's one near you and they provide masses of helpful advice (and courses) if you decide to try. We ran a pig club, six families looking after three pigs, a couple of years ago, then last year bought a place and started a CSA scheme with 18 families helping out on a six acre holding. We're hoping to sign up a few more families now to take our total to 20 for 2012. If you're interested, you can have a look at http://www.hempsalsfarm.com (http://www.hempsalsfarm.com) to see what we get up to. I'd be more than happy to have a chat if you'd like to know more about how we set it up and how the whole thing works.