The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Other => Topic started by: chickens on March 07, 2009, 01:11:09 pm
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Can anyone offer any advice please on how to fatten up a milking goat. She has had triplets (first time mum) 4 weeks ago, one was born dead and the other two she has been feeding, she has become very thin we increased her food levels (luzerne, mangels, lots of hay and cakes/bread) we wormed her and gave her vitamins - she has a salt lick which she shares with the other goats. She now has diahrea from too many granules, last week she collapsed but has picked up but is still very thin, are we missing something?
Thanks
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beth should be able to help you, or her Mum who's a retired vet - Ballingall
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that would be great does beth post on here? we just can't bear to see her so thin
thanks
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PM Ballingall on the members list
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Can anyone offer any advice please on how to fatten up a milking goat. She has had triplets (first time mum) 4 weeks ago, one was born dead and the other two she has been feeding, she has become very thin we increased her food levels (luzerne, mangels, lots of hay and cakes/bread) we wormed her and gave her vitamins - she has a salt lick which she shares with the other goats. She now has diahrea from too many granules, last week she collapsed but has picked up but is still very thin, are we missing something?
Thanks
Hi chickens,
sorry to hear your goat isn't so well. First of all, she is a first time mum- does that mean she is 2 years old? Or how old is she? Its always best to worm them the week or so after kidding so that was a good move. :) How much milk is she producing? I guess you are letting the kids take what they need, but is she producing more than they need, or is she producing enough for them?
She may have been calcium defficient, especially with having triplets, it can be a bigger strain on them. Have you consulted your vet at all, and whereabouts do you live?
Beth
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Hi Beth
Thank you very much for your reply. She is about 3 I believe as we bought her from someone else, should we perhaps buy a calcium block for her or something else with calcium in - is there a food with calcium in? The vet suggested worming her or that it could be an infection - we took her temperature she did not have a fever.
However, we have the same problem with a jersey cow - is it something to do with milking animals? The jersey is still feeding her calf who is 8 months old.
Thanks again for your advice really appreciate it. We are in france in the department of Mayenne.
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Hi again,
It can be a problem with milking animals, if they are producing more milk than they can eat food to keep themselves in good condition. However, there are things you can do. You haven't mentioned about much milk she is giving/ feeding the kids?
Certain foods are better at fattening animals up, ie grains. So we feed for example flaked barley and flaked peas, both of which are good at helping to put weight on. Also soaked beetpulp is good- Although make sure no male goats or rams get to eat any beetpulp as it can cause kidney stones in males. Having said that, you also need to feed enough protein content to ensure that she can produce milk as well.
Calcium will be in food, but it is always in minimal amounts. They will only likely be calcium deficcient after kidding, or if they are giving a lot of milk. A cow will calcium deficciency and you will know all about it- its more often called milk fever in cows, and they can go down very quickly.
If she doesn't have a temperature its not a fever, so I wouldn't give antibiotics at the moment. Is your land wet? I don't know if fluke is a problem to you locally, but it is a possibility- it attacks the liver and could give the symptoms you describe.
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Hi
Thank you once again for your help I really appreciate it. No, our land is not wet, oops all of our goats including males have been having dried beetpulp but we have recently stopped it and put them all on just luzerne and hay. Sorry I really do not know how much milk she is giving the kids - how would I be able to tell please? I do know that when I tried to milk her I only got a very little and to be honest she seemed to be weaker after.
You don't know anything about piperazine in the form of d'hexahydrate do you? Only hubby gave it to milking cow and to the goats to worm them (we are not drinking the goats milk but want to drink the cows milk) 8 days ago - is it safe for us to drink or should we wait several weeks? On the box it said (but in french) do not give to milking animals or chickens where eggs are for human consumption. My fault I should hav translated it for him before leaving him to it.
Really sorry about all the questions and thanks again
Nicki
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My concern would be that she might not be producing enough milk for the kids just now if she is not well. I would always at least check her udder every day, and milk her once a day if she has some milk in it. Are the kids happy and content with full tums? Are they growing well? With triplets, you may need to supplement them by giving them a bit extra milk as well.
A good trick to get some milk from her, or to establish that she is producing milk, is to leave the kids with her until last thing at night, then shut them in a different shed overnight. Then first thing in the morning you can milk her, and get some idea of how much she is giving, and also some milk for you if you should need it! At four weeks the kids are more than able to cope with being away from mum overnight.
I would try bringing some extras into her diet- vegetables such as cabbage, carrot, apple, turnip chopped up, greens like curly kale. If you have any plants with buds on try her with those. Its hard to get green things this early in the year, but if it is warmer with you, there might be buds on hawthorn bushes, or flowering current bushes. If not, you can always try holly or even ivy as long as it not poisonous and has no berries whatsoever on it. Even a beech tree with dried last years leaves on can be quiet appetising.
I would ask your vet if he can give her an injection of calcium- the brand we get here is called Calciject, and its what the vet would normally give a cow for milk fever. It definitely won't do her any harm, and might well give her a boost. We have just given some today as it happens to my 2 milkers- one kidded 2 weeks past Friday, and the other a week past friday. Kream who kidded just over 2 weeks ago, is looking ok, but a bit off colour, not her usual bright self, and her calcium levels will have been depleted because she had 3 (and a half) kids, plus she has been giving 6.5 litres of milk a day. If you feel confident at giving injections, you can give to her yourself just injected under the skin, but it is best to warm the calcium slightly before injecting it. If you ask the vet to do it, he might inject it straight into the vein instead.
It might also be worth giving her a vitamin B12 injection which will stimulate her appetite.
Don't know much about that wormer but I will try and find out!
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Thanks again - really appreciate your help
:)
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I used to keep a lot of very high yeilding dairy goats and they were producing over 2000kgs of milk per lactation so difficult to keep weight on and goats in general are not as easy as people think!!
Goats need copper so make sure you have a mineral lick suitable for cows Rockies red are ideal. Try Caprivite as a suppliment too........google it for a supplier.
Also mix your own feed, she will need rolled oats 20%, maize 20%, fodder peas 15%, crushed barley15%,and something like dried lucerne pellets 30% and mix it together. Feed approx half a calf bucket full twice a day plus as much good quality hay, cut browsings such as willow and tie in bunches and allow on to good grassland. Worm with double the ammount for sheep as they are different in their ability to digest wormer.....not sure why!
Make sure she does not have coccidiosis..........get dung tested! That can cause thin animals with the squits.
Good luck!
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Looking at what you are feeding I would suggest that maybe she needs something with a higher energy and protein content. Mangolds are very high in water content so Dry matter intake per mouthful will be low. Suger beet pulp dry or wet(soak it for non ruminants) is fine for energy but I think your protein intakes may be a little low. Wheat and soya are your best bets but for ease I would try some ewe nuts or similar. 16% protein.
Your cow should be getting enough to maintain her body weight and about 0.4kgconcentrate /litre of milk produced(4lb per gallon). We used to reckon adlib quality hay or silage should produce enough for maintainance.
In early lactation most animals will lose weight(mik off their backs) but you need to keep the energy levels up or they will get ketosis(using more energy than they can eat) you can tell as their breath smells of acetone or peardrops.
Wooley shepherd is right Oats, and maize for energy peas for protein. would make a good balance.
It seems odd but goats are much nearer to cows biologically than sheep.
Hope this helps let us know how she gets on.
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How is she getting on chickens?
Soya bean meal is great to add extra protein, or just to increase the protein content of fooThey generally love it as well.
Beth
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Hi Beth
She is still very thin, a bit brighter but still quite weak, we have a calcium injection to give her today, but not quite sure as we have not done this before, it is intra muscular - am going to find out as much as can on it first. We are used to goats but I am wary as I dont want to make a mistake.
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Hi Beth
She is still very thin, a bit brighter but still quite weak, we have a calcium injection to give her today, but not quite sure as we have not done this before, it is intra muscular - am going to find out as much as can on it first. We are used to goats but I am wary as I dont want to make a mistake.
Hello Chickens
Forgive me for posting this reply, I'm Alex, Beth's boyfriend and I'm passing on her advice :).
A calcium injection should be given sub-cutaneously (that is to say, under the skin but not too deep into the muscle), a good place to give the goat this jab is in the soft skin just behind the shoulder. You should find the needle slips in very easily at a fairly shallow angle, and this spot doesn't hurt the goat much at all.
It goes without saying, make sure all the air is out of the syringe before you give the jab. It's also worth remembering that the calcium fluid itself can be a little cold, which can be uncomfortable for the goat, so if you can, before you give the shot, warm it a little (touch-warm is perfect, just take the edge off the coldness :)).
The very best of luck with her, keep us informed and if you have anymore questions please go ahead and ask.
Fingers crossed she gets better :).
Alex & Beth.
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Hi Beth and Alex
Thank you both ever so much for your advice. She has terrible diarhhea this morning so I gave her something to help with that and also a glucose mixture to give her energy, she went at it like crazy so I will give her some more later plus the injection for the calcium - feel much more confident now having read your reply.
Thanks again
Nicki
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Back again - she has had calcium injection and daily we are giving her glucose morning and night, for the last 3 days she has had medicine for diahroea and we have stopped her granules just given her lots of hay. She goes out in to the field every day but we shut her in at night.
She is very weak, gets easily knocked over by the others, her face looks swollen to me, (but so does the other milking goat so perhaps it is just the breed) but her fur is very patchy and I think it itches her, any idea please as I am afraid we are going to lose her.
Thanks
Nicki
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If she's getting knocked over easily, shut her away from the others. It'll give her a break, and her kids will keep her company anyway. Her face being fluffy could be her being cold, it can make her hair go fluffy on her face which makes it look swollen. The itchiness leads me to think it might be an idea to give her something for lice/fleas. We use spot on, but you can't use the milk for human comsumption afterwards. However the itchiness probably isn't the base cause of what's wrong.
What are your minerals like? Is your area known for Copper deficiency? Copper deficiency can lead to anemia, and my mother (the vet) says it can also cause the scouring.
Make sure she does not have coccidiosis..........get dung tested! You said you got her last year, what can happen is that goats build up a resistance to coccidiosis, however they build up a resistance to their local strain of it. When moved and you will have coccidiois on your land, she could have picked up that strain and not had the same resistance to it. That can cause thin animals with the squits.
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Niki You have a very sick goat there.....please look at what I posted!! I had milkers giving huge quantities of milk.....it is not a calcium deficiency.....I know!!!
Treat for coxy, dose with a wormer that does fluke( bottle jaw...ie looks like swollen head, can be a symptom of fluke) and worms at a double dose and delouse her....use Spot on AND check the copper!!!!!
I think you may be too late though :-[
I know you have experience of goats its just that they are very complicated..........do you belong to the British Goat Society? V helpful even if in France. ALSO John Matthews their honorary vet is THE man re goats..........you could email him or phone direct.....very approachable chap............you must act or you could lose your other goat!
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I know vets are expensive but I think its time for a proper diagnosis, if its not to late already.