The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: BexNewman on October 18, 2011, 04:10:42 pm
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Hi there, someone suggested using 'cattle booster' feed blocks as a possible way of reducing quantity of hard feed needed this winter for my Shetlands. The booster block is supposed to encourage the cows to eat more of the poorer quality forage as well as provide vitamins and minerals. Our grazing is fairly rough, we are above the snow line and our cows out winter. The cows have access to average quality haylage. Just wondered what mineral licks and feed blocks other people use for their natives / Shetland cattle?
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you could try pot ale syrup poured over there haylage or straw :farmer:
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We haven't overwintered ours outside yet, so our experience is limited. We're on lowground with pretty good grass - although even we were above the snow line last year ;D
Last winter, the calves were in from end October when we got them until February, I think. This year, I intend to leave them out, unless it's very wet and they are making a real mess of the ground. Our's get rock salt and access to a yellow Rockie all year. They have had access to a Crystalyx Standard until recently - which is probably why they are fat.
Now that they are in calf, I'm not minded to give them anything apart from the licks above and hay, if the weather is bad. If they start to lose too much condition, I'll give them the Crystalyx one again.
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I only give mine hay in the winter if there is no grass (ie snow cover as I have loads of grass) and I gave them a cattle booster block in the worst weather last year. They don't seem to go at it like sheep do so it lasted a long time.
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The vet advised straw and a mineral lick over winter to get a bit of weight off them ::) I'll use the rock salt, yellow Rockie and Crystalyx Standard, I think.
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try BRINICOMBE group ltd. they specialise in mineral blocks and liquid and also for the equine as well. brinicombe used to be bells. :)
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You know what BH thinks, Rosemary - no molassed licks, molasses = weight on. Use drench or bolus instead for the minerals needed. Straw only if grass not accessible.
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Having kept up wards at times of 100 shetland cows yearly for 25 years, my thoughts would be that this is an impossible question to answer until knowing the following as feeding will need to be tailored accourdingly
1) What age are they
2) What body condition are they in
3) What point of breeding are they at
4) What is their breeding
5) Is the area they graze mineral deficient
Please do remember we are talking about Shetlands and they are SO SO different to feed from say pedigree continentals - my daughter keeps and shows a herd of Simmentals. Now that is another story!!
Linda
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1) What age are they
2) What body condition are they in
3) What point of breeding are they at
4) What is their breeding
5) Is the area they graze mineral deficient
Ours were born March 2010, CS about 3.5, both in calf due end May and end June respectively, by Creadyknowe Ertie out of Trondra cows, so quite stocky / beefy, yes, our soil test indicated general mineral deficiencies.
I agree with CorrieDhu that they don't go at the molasses lick like the sheep do, but if I have them on straw, I think they will need the molassed lick to help them digest the straw (my understanding is that the molasses feed the rumen bacteria that, in turn, digest the straw.) They do have a good go at the salt and the yellow Rockie.
Happy to receive any advice, Linda
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Hi, thanks for your answers - appreciate you can't give an exact answer specific to my herd without all the details - but just wanted to gauge what other people are doing. My cows have access to crystalyx hi-magnesium lick tubs all year round and there is a yellow rockie kicking about in the paddock too (we are very low in selenium). The cows got a ration of course mix and adlib hay/haylage through the worst of the winter. I cut back the ration when the temperatures got above freezing and the snow had melted.
At present I have one shetland in fleshy condition, 2 are just right and they each have followers who will not be weaned till early spring. The cows hopefully are in calf for next summer - they were recently ai'd and I haven't seen any bulling since.
I wondered if anyone else had experience of these 'booster' blocks. If anyone used one last winter - did they dramatically reduce the need for hard feed? Did they dramatically increase the amount of forage the cows consumed? I don't want to be over sold something which would be better suited to continental cattle etc. But I am tempted if they do reduce the number of bags of hard feed I would need to keep in store (I have very limited storage and deliveries and feed supply can be tricky here in the worst weather). Think I will have another chat with the sales rep and see if we can work out what would be more cost effective and practical.
Thanks again guys. :wave:
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It would be good if Linda responded, given her experience of Shetlands.
I'm not planning to give mine any bagged feed this winter - just hay and blocks.
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I have often read these kind of conversations but never joined in, so hopefully will not say the wrong thing/explain what I mean clearly!! I am also dyslexic so hope you will excuss the spelling.
Oh this is a hard one as it is very complicated. Feeding is hard enough but then add Shetlands in who have never read the rule book!!!
I suppose part of feeding cattle or any stock for that matter is stockman's eye (Just being able to look and know) - fine but that does take years to gain the experience to just know what the correct feeding is.
We started as small holders 25 years ago so have learned the hard way!!
I got a shock 10 years ago when starting with Quarter horses, had to go back to the drawing board and learn the stockman's job again, fortunatly the retired stockman that bred my stallion was there to advise.
I would split them down into at least 5 groups in my mind,
1) heifer calves post weaning up to bulling/5 months post service.
2) Cows/heifers 3/4 months from calving
3) Cows with calves at foot
4) Othe dry cows
5) ill/fat/thin or mineral deficient females
So Bex your cattle seem to fit into 3) above,
Now this is one occasion when Shetlands can need careful feeding, the reason is that A good cow - well good in my eyes will milk hard and will milk off her back, so a very good one can go from fat to wreck in 6 weeks with just adlib silage and no hard feeding having said that I am talking about a cow that will give 5/6 gallons a day, then the bigger problem comes of how to feed to stop the cow becoming a wreck but not feed as even a Simmental calf will not take all that milk at such a young age.
Hence the question about breeding - to try and establish the milkyness of the cattle.
Having said that most Shetlands are not bred to be that milky, pity as we could loose the greatest asset the breed has, so if they are the dry beefier sort then there is less need. I certainly would be giving them some type of concentrate feeding/block. The problem with blocks is that they are around £4/500 per ton yet concentrate feeds £210/250. I would be wanting to get a high energy (ME) feed yes for milk, protien is needed but if the cows are reasonable sorts then they should not need to higher protien.
In a mineral deficient area I would say mineral buckets a must but then on a good place I supose they could get staggers hence need extra Mag. Again a milky sort will need this more than a beefier cow.
If there is grass in the spring and summer then I would not see the need for feed blocks/buckets - I am unsure if the crysatllix are feed or mineral buckets? Very important to be clear about the difference. One feeds the other tempt them to take the minerals. We always use mollased mineral buckets, never feed buckets.
We also use boluses as well but then our place is very like Shetland in ground conditions. Copper/Cobalt/Selenium deficient.
"Did they dramatically increase the amount of forage the cows consumed?"
Shetlands can eat most/all breeds "under the table" remember they evolved "on a diet of controlled malnutrition" so if its eadible they will eat it - now give them sweets instead yes they will eat those by preference!!
Remember the inlifting? ie. the winters when cattle became so thin they collapsed and had to be put in slings, in the spring they where carried out to the grazings. They where bred to get fat when the going is good to help tied them over the bad.
Little wonder they are real tough beasties - they constantly amaze us compared with "normal breeds"!!!!
(No do not get me going on that one!!!!)
not sure about yours Rosemary3) or 4) ?
Did you say the vet suggested they get weight off???!!! Why ? (Assuming they are breeding regularly ofcourse)
"The book" would say that a cow will not get in calf if fat I would say Shetlands are less likely to get in calf if slimmer.
Trouble is vets tend to be book people. We have had great fun with them over the years!!! Called living and learning. It seems to take us about two years to train them into the Shetland's way of thinking!!!
It is possibly worth remembering that Shetland's have not read the native cattle book either, as they can act very differently to other native breeds.
I suspect that some lines clamp down - anesterous if the going gets tough, in normal terms that can mean they have lesser fertility than other lines that can be super fertile. Again an important thing to breed in or out for the future of the breed -depends on your view point which you choose.
I would have though that cows without calves and no access to any grazing would need more than just straw to last a winter. IF they need it I would have thought they would eat the blocks a plenty.
Hope that helps?, seems a lot of rambling??
Linda
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Rosemary, like SC above, I'm surprised at the vet suggesting just straw and minerals for pregnant cows. That's what you feed to animals that you're drying off after weaning and has no way near enough energy for a cow with a growing calf inside.
Bex - we have highland cattle, which have a very efficient digestive system, and in winter feed them straw with a high energy feed block or bucket, where there is some grass as well. Where the grass is virtually non existent they get hay with the high energy supplement. They can therefore regulate their energy intake as they require and get the minerals they need from the blocks or buckets. I actually prefer the buckets because there's no wastage with them, whereas the blocks tend to get dumped in the mud once they are eaten down a bit.
Thecows are normally in calf over winter, due about April/May, they get no other feed but the forage and energy bucket, and they keep in really good condition on these rations alone.
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We use the high energy buckets as an alternative to cake for growing youngstock. For lactating and in-calf suckler cattle we use the minerals-only buckets.
All stock get grass until it's not nutritious enough, then hay or silage and occasionally good eating-quality barley straw. They'd get straw more often if we didn't manage to make so much of our own hay and silage.
Any fat heifers are outwintered on our very rough (not quite moorland) ground with a flap of hay a day and a minerals-only bucket - we don't want them too fat when it comes to calving.
Our neighbours mostly all feed straw mixed into silage (all silage makes for a lot of wet muck, which doesn't always suit farmers who don't run their cattle on slats) along with the minerals-only buckets. Calves and youngstock get additional rations, either cake or the high energy blocks.
Some of these suckler cattle are native breed (there are some Galloways, Blue Greys, Shorthorns and an increasing number of Anguses about, and we have a few Hereford crosses and one neighbour is going into Luings) but a lot are Limousin or Limi-crosses.
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Rosemary, like SC above, I'm surprised at the vet suggesting just straw and minerals for pregnant cows. That's what you feed to animals that you're drying off after weaning and has no way near enough energy for a cow with a growing calf inside.
My understanding is that, during the middle third of pregnancy, the calf is not growing significantly. Development is pretty much complete though, therefore it is a good time to get a bit of weight off. The calf's main growing period is the last three months and as this time, you don't want to be giving the cow too much feed as it will go to the calf, possibly causing calving problems. After calving, you can shove as much food into the cow as you like to grow the calf through through the cow's milk.
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feed your cows what ever way suits you at the time
when they calve with huge calves that die at birth cows raxed to bits with huge calves over supply of milk weeded teats ill calves because of the weeded milk cesarian births well you get the picture
far better with a small calve and a living and healthy cow both can put on condition with feeding after birth
your choice your cattle your losses not mine :farmer:
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our shetland heifers wintered last year on haylage and copper salt licks only. at the moment they are both on the fat side so they wont be getting much different this year. our grazing is very rough also. they had free access to a stable where they chose to sleep at night.
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feed your cows what ever way suits you at the time
when they calve with huge calves that die at birth cows raxed to bits with huge calves over supply of milk weeded teats ill calves because of the weeded milk cesarian births well you get the picture
far better with a small calve and a living and healthy cow both can put on condition with feeding after birth
your choice your cattle your losses not mine :farmer:
Genuine question Robert, but what's "weeded"? :dunce:
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to much milk it rots in the vessel :farmer:
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Ok. Thanks.
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The whole concept of a feed block is to boost rumen function and efficiency so allowing poorer grade forage to be utilised while allowing ease of management therefore postponing the use of higher quality feed stuffs. If your animals, cattle or sheep, usually need concentrate feeding the chances are that the feed blocks will cut the amount of feed needed and the length of time it's needed but in most cases hard feed will still be required where the animals are under a lot of metabolic stress, peak lactation and just before giving birth. Blocks rarely work out much cheaper than giving a concentrate suppliment that would achieve the same effect but the ease of management makes them much more popular
In this particular instance i'd try and go for a medium grade block or bucket, they tend to be more reasonable on the price. If you are buying just a few as when thry are being needed then as the winter progresses you can buy higher energy blocks to counter the general degredation of the forage available and the increased metabolic tole on the beasts as the third trimester kicks in. If you are selenium deficieint the chances are there will be other minerals lacking as well so I would make sure the blocks are mineralised. It's a real easy way to make sure the cows are in good shape for the early period of lactaion. If you do start feeding concentrates it is still a good idea to leave buckets out, they will still help.
Your cows, being young, are less likely to suffer from grass staggers or milk fever beause they can mobilise their bone mineral reserves really well but with older cows (and sometimes ewes) high magnesium buckets in the early spring, just before the grass begins to really shoot, is always a good idea. Point of caution though with magnesium. High levels of magnesium in feed stuffs can make it taste bitter to the animals so it's a good idea to start the animals of a different feed first until they are into the swing of eating before introducing the high mag.
You aked what type to use. I'd say to phone three or four of your local suppliers and go for the best priced one. Unless you are using a branded product (crystalix or Bridicome etc) The blocks are usually all made in the same factory to the same sort of recipie and then put in different wrappers!
Hope this is of some use to you all.
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il def be getting magnesium licks as iv heard of 2 shetland cows have have died recently due to mag deficiency. that would be heart breaking.
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I've changed mine to red Rockies and I'll be leaving the mag Crystalyx in.
The two died were in milk - our heifers will be far less susceptible.
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i thought they had to be in milk to get mag def too but i researched it and i think they can get it from deficiency in grass? the ones that died also had a lick :-[ :-[
anyway iv bought the triple mag lick for them, then realised sheep arent allowed access, so im gona have to fix the fence to keep the sheep out before i can give it to them. im not really wanting to give hard feed as they are already fat and will be having mid-summer calves as it is.
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grass staggers is caused by a lack of magnesium as far as i was aware it only occurs in Autumn and to lactating cows that are producing a lot of milk it is easy cured by administering a solution of magnesium into the animal by a flutter valve :farmer:
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grass staggers is caused by a lack of magnesium as far as i was aware it only occurs in Autumn and to lactating cows that are producing a lot of milk it is easy cured by administering a solution of magnesium into the animal by a flutter valve :farmer:
I've always found that grass staggers is worst while grass is lush during peak growth so spring and autumn. spring is normally worst due to the fact that normally this is when the animal is under the most metabolic stress through peak lactation (second to sixth week after giving birth). Also during the spring the animal has just come through a long winter so then their own body reserves are at their lowest. If you haven't used a flutter valve before then get the vet, get it wrong and you'll kill the beast.
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You don't actually need to use a flutter valve, as like you say, it's a specialist's job - being through a vein.
For the lay person, a large 50ml syringe will do, intermusclary.
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You don't actually need to use a flutter valve, as like you say, it's a specialist's job - being through a vein.
For the lay person, a large 50ml syringe will do, intermusclary.
The syringe works really very well but is a far slower release of the mag or calcium into the system. The flutter valve is needed once the animal is 'down' because once she's off her legs the beast needs a far faster hit of the magnesium than can be achieved by any other means apart from intraveinous. Like everything with stock prevention is always easier (and usually cheaper) than cure.
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with a downer cow speed is of the essance sorry it has to give that hit right away :farmer:
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Linda will have the experience thats for sure. I have only had Shetlands for about 10 yrs. I feed Crystalix blocks, feed blocks in Winter just mineral in Spring. The Chap at Market advises what I need and when. Stock have Hay when grass finishes, I dont use Silage, last Winter I gave some Oat Straw as well because it was cheap. The only time I would worry about weight would be when I was going to get them in Calf, only had the problem once and the Cow could have got fat on a square foot of grass.
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I like to use triple mag as a mineral booster which is cheap at £13. If you get good June hay you will find your feed bills drop dramatically. We have seen time and time again the throughput drop after converting from silage or poor/late hay.