The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Fowgill Farm on March 05, 2009, 09:23:30 am
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I think theres an awful lot of inexperienced and ill prepared people out there deciding to or already attempting at keeping pigs. Some of the posts i read on here make me want to weep and fear not for the keepers but their poor stock and i know others posters on here have bemoaned the fact that just anyone can have a go at pig keeping regardless of experience by getting a cph number.I realise that we were all beginners at one time and everyone has to learn but please please do your research first and start small with a couple of weaners to fatten, i see so many pigs up for sale through no fault of their own its just their keepers were dumb to the fact that cute little piglets grow up into BIG pigs.
At the GOS club whilst trying to encourage new keepers we're also making people aware of all the angles involved in entering into the world of pig keeping.
Click on the thread below to learn more
http://www.oldspots.org.uk/getting_started.asp
Hopefully some of you will find it of interest.
and hopefully have some happy pig keeping experiences :pig:
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Fowgill farm you have reminded me of our first experience meeting tamworths. My previous experience had been of Gossies, and I dont think they were necessarily as big as they might have been. However we went to look at some tammies. Rare breed pigs were hens teeth over here in those days. It might have been better had we seen them in a larger area, but there were 6 of them in a back garden. Optimistically the breeder (a well known and prolific breeder of tamworths in his/her time in UK) had given them a tent and a polythene greenhouse as protection from the elements. It was April. The boar almost wore the greenhouse like a snail. The sows were the biggest I had ever seen. They stood larger than a shetland. We called them sofa pigs as they were all bigger than our 3 seater sofa. The boar had tusks to match any sanglier.
Anyway we went away and gave it a lot of thought. Then we got Hilary, who was a challenge to any pig keeper experienced or not. After a week of Hilary we went back and bought 2 of the tamworth babies. We would have bought the adults as well to offer them a better home, but the price was in excess of anything we could afford. (Wish I could get those prices now).
I do know experienced pig keepers to whom I would never sell a pig. Although I do agree get as much information as you can, and hands on experience where possible. (I had had some experience in UK).
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Pig keeping is definitely not to be gone into on a whim. think long and hard as they are quite a committment, and demand lot's of looking after. I had some experience with pigs, working on local farms as a youth, but still needed to do a course to bring me up to speed on all the new regulations. once done, however, and all the infrastructure in place ( pig proof fencing, ark, troughs and a supply of feed stored safely) it has been a joy to keep such noble beast. Their welfare has to be the priority, last night for instance, as it was going to be frosty, I was piling more straw into the ark. The pigs thought it was great, pulling the straw back out, and ripping my waterproofs to shreds as I tried to put more in. I also spent a while on the phone organising logistics for next weeks despatch of same, much loved pigs. Abattoir booked(£20 per pig) butcher organised ( £50 per pig to include all work, packing and sausage making), freezer organised ( some pork and lamb still in there allocated to willing volunteers), paperwork ready, tattoo stuff sterilised and ear tags ready.
They are powerfull and clever and can be quite destructive to land and trees etc. The old breeds, free ranged, are the way to go for us part time smallholders.As fowgill farmer states, do your homework and don't exceed your abillity to cope,better to keep a small number of well looked after pigs than let any suffer. Cute weaners soon grow to sofa size and take some effort to move when going in the direction they have decided on.
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Well, I'm the new keeper that this may be aimed at, I've read all I can read on the net. I've pondered where on the field to put them as it's a sloping field. I've re read a lot of stuff, I've found the abattoir that I can use and spoken at length to them.
I've got a CPH no. re thought the whole idea, then got a new pig arc because I didn't like the sound of some of the alternatives. I've read the book starting with pigs. Then I've realised that there are no shortcuts I'm going to have to buy a new stock trailer because the back of the car was probably illegal and there were no second hand trailers to be had. Then I've got a herd no. and spoken to some people who have pigs. I've asked a few questions on this forum and read it daily for the last 2-3 weeks.
How'm I doing so far for going about this in the right way ??
I've fenced off a chunk of field and am almost ready to get 2 weaners to fatten. Going to see some Saddlebacks tonight all being well.
I'm quite likely to come back to the forum to ask the best way to move these pigs from the new trailer to the new arc as this is about 75 yards up hill. This may seem a dumb question but other peoples ideas may help. I don't think that because I'm on here asking q's it makes me a bad pig stockman. If the experienced people can pass on tips it will make me a better on.
I can't do a one day pig course because I work weekends in our guesthouse www.kingswood-guesthouse.co.uk so I'm having to remember all the things I did as a lad working on a pig farm.
So come on give us a break.
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Sounds good to me. As my posting above its not just the newbies, these people had pigs for years before moving over here. There are now only a very few people who I would sell pigs to. But we all have to be first timers before we become experienced, its the arrogance of those who think they know it all that causes the problems (and this is not aimed at anyone posting on this topic) a new person willing to learn and more to the point keen to ask before the problem becomes a crisis ..... far better than one who knows it all to the detriment of the pigs.
The above is in no way a criticism of any of the above postings HM
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It's two years since I decided to have another go with pigs. I found this site about the most encouraging. The GOS site, though informative can be a bit pig nerdy, bordering on ocd. I don't think anyone will ever know all the answers, and it is good to get advice from other smallholders. i hope I havn't come across high n mighty. I think pigs are one of the cornerstones of a smallholders setup, if you can give them enough time and space. they seem to fit in and do a multitude of good, giving back more than just meat. Like david and chris I think I read all I could get hold of, sifted through loads of web sites and asked loads of questions. I 'll never know it all , but what I have learned I am happy to share if it helps. I think I have just about reached DEFRA pig regulation overload at the moment, due to impending despatch and me being petrified of being accused of doing anything wrong. Not sure wether to take a short break from pigs or get some more straight away. :pig: ???
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Guessing that you are now well and truly hooked, I am thinking of starting a book on how long you will hold out before you get some more.
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I don't think that keeping any animal should be entered into lightly. However, everyone has to be a newbie and no amount of reading or research really prepares you for the real thing. I agree that preparation is important and thinking it through but familiarity breeds contempt, and experienced people can become off-hand in a way that a newbie doesn't.
I spent 4 years working on a farm with sheep. Albeit that was 20 blah years ago, keeping my three sheep is terrifying. Nothing much has changed in terms of keeping them - but now it's MY responsibility, not my boss's. I have to make the decisions. Wouldn't change it though.
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OK HM you've sussed me out. next week I will have a small bundle of readies, and an empty ark, three rols of wire and some fence posts. excess produce and weeds will be sprouting out of my ears in a month or so. 3 or 4 vegetation munchers?. i am waiting to see what the butcher makes of my tubby chaps before getting itchy. i already have a good contact with weaners at a great price.help, it's like an addiction. I must love mud and never being able to quite get rid of that certain whiff. :pig: :farmer:
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Hmmmm, Keeping weaners is a lot like having kids (two legged kind). You do all the research you can, you get as much advice as you can, but nothing helps better than practical experience. Looking at the positives, you need a licence to have pigs, any asshole can have kids (Occupationally, i've met a few). I could tell you stories that would make you weep, but I digress. Sure it's not easy to go out in the rain to feed the little blighters (Today in Ireland it was hail), but it's no different to getting up at night for the kids, it has to be done. In raising kids, as in keeping pigs, i've made some mistakes, but haven't we all. The important thing is to learn from them. The only thing I can say is that when your heart is really in it, it's hugely rewarding. I have my weaners for only a week now, and it's a steep learning curve, but I just love it. If it wasn't for a site like this then yes I might have had some serious concerns about keeping them, but I know that if I have a question, I can have a reply in about ten minutes....and you can't get better than that! So again many thanks to those I have troubled with all my questions, my porkers thank you for your time, as indeed do I. Thanks also to Gavin Goodman (MacNean Farm) for the Panacur 1.5% in-feed wormer, you were, and continue to be a lifesaver.
On a funnier note, when i first met my wife I called her a spud-picker (in jest), how she laughs now watching me picking up the pig faeces from the enclosure (i'm at mid progress in the worming and am moving the pigs, at their last dose, into a new section of field). I explained to my oldest son why I was doing it, when he asked. He said 'Yuck', 'Ah' says I, 'Didin't I do something similar for you for long enough!'...now that he found funny!
Morgan :farmer:
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I'm really pleased that my post has provoked a good response and there are a lot of wonderful pig keepers out there who do the job right but theres a also a lot that don't and really my post is aimed at them. As i said we all had to begin somewhere and you learn everyday, this week we've had escapee weaners walking down the yard and their pen is now like alcatraz. i should know better! ::)
I'm sorry you found the GOS site 'nerdy' but we probably are because we're so enthusiastic about our breed but we hope we can help any pig keeper no matter what breed. At the end of our day we all want the best for our pigs.
David & Chris - You also ask how to get piglets from the trailer to a pen 75 yards away, my advice would be to carry them one at a time, the squeals will deafen you and people will think you're murdering them but its really the only way to move piglets into a pen unless you got a smaller trailer on the back of a quad to get them close to it.
Happy pig keeping people
Mandy
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Mandy,
The funny thing is most of us would probably agree with you. I know i do, and would hate to see any creature suffer unnecessarily. I'm the furthest thing from an expert that you could find, but i picked up on my weaners worms as soon as they appeared, and thanks to the Internet found out what they were (Ascaris Suum). Thanks to this site not only did I find out how to treat them, but a kindly gent also gave me the Panacur in feed wormer to get the first dose done (Panacur 1.5% is no longer available in Ireland and i am in the process of getting some shipped in from the U.K).
I looked at your site and I liked the info piece...hope you get to part two soon. I do think that it's important to have all the necessary start-up info, including warnings (that might put off those who haven't given pig keeping any real consideration) in one place. I know that when I undertook my research before starting that it took a good month to collate all the pertinent info. I did enjoy hunting for it though!
Regards,
Morgan :farmer:
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Whilst I agree totally that no animal (or child for that matter) should be taken on lightheartedly or without due consideration, and that every beginner should do as much research as possible - I have found to my horror that there are a lot of bl -- dy awful pig keepers out there some of whom are just totally calous where animal welfare is concerned, and those that just dont realise that they either are ignorant or ignoring the problem. Either way its the animal that suffers and I dont know what one can do about it.
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hi I echo Hiliarys Mums sentiments.
There are I am afraid certain ' expert pig keepers ' who certainly dont practice what they preach.
I know that I have lost sales to others who sell piglets cut price because they cut corners & raise pigs on the cheap at the expense of pig welfare.
I am certainly no expert - but hopefully I can sy I am a well infored amateur ;)
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I would like to think we did our homework fairly well before being pig keepers for the first time last year, however i did spend a lot of time reading previous posts on here which everyone knows is a mine of information. we found all the regulars on here most helpful. I take the point of comment re new pig owners it is a big responsibility as are all livestock would hope everyone does there homework before taking this on................neil
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Give GOS keepers their due - the best book we bought on pigs was Rare Breed Pig Keeping edited by Richard Lutwyche taken from the GOS newsletter (ISBN 0-9545172-0-2). It's one of the only books we've read that was written with common sense in mind and readily adapts to our Tams (Andy Case's comes a close second).
The main thing we adhere to is keeping things simple and not to listen to (or read books from) anyone who thinks all pigs should be pink and live in a shed all their lives....
Cheers
Gavin
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I've just received the Compassion in World Farming's latest magazine. There's a featture on pig keeping in Europe, including the UK. Heartbreaking, truly heartbreaking.
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We're all hanging on tenter hooks now, in what way?
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Please Rosemary can you paraphrase it for us?
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http://www.ciwf.org.uk/farm_animals/pigs/default.aspx
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Yup, that's pretty much it. It also shows the inaccuracy of labelling and how the consumer is deliberately mislead. Lets just say the little red tractor doesn't mean much is you are a pig.
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Wouldn't it be great if, by law, you had to label your products with a picture of the animals living conditions....no more pictures of country meadows for a lot of producers me-thinks!
Slight digression found a very interesting site on GM additives in feed http://ngin.tripod.com/foodstatements.htm , well worth a look. A lot of us might just start milling our own feed!
Morgan :farmer:
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Hello there everyone. I work in the day, I leave home at 7:30 get home at 6:30. Is there anyway I could keep a couple of pigs?
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Hi Matt,
They will need to be fed twice a day, and have water and shelter and sufficient space (Pigs go through ground super fast especially in wet weather). You'll also need good fencing,that being said we just use two strands of mains electric fencing, and have never really had any problems.
As long as you make the time for them, they are hugely rewarding....and a great way to de-stress after a crappy day. Think of them as kids that don't answer back!!
You're also going to have to do your homework, but there's plenty of books you can get before taking the leap. Also read all the posts in this section, you'll learn loads and have a good laugh.
Regards,
Morgan
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Is there any one around your property at all during the day just to pop their head in so to speak to the pig pen to check on water etc;cos unless you have an automatic water fill they could have a very long period of time without water if they toss it soon after you have tended them in the morning just something to bear in mind .Also if an animal takes ill etc that's an awful long time without attention.Perhaps something a little less time consuming might be better if no one is around during the day.
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Like most animals (and kids) it doesnt matter what you read cos the animals dont read the same books. Sometimes you just have to get the animals and learn as you go along.
What is more important is that you respect the animals and try your best.
Besides a lot of peple are hands on learners, I know I am.
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It would be tough in the winter. I feed my pigs just now at first light and then they get their tea at 4.00 pm so you would have a couple hours longer than me without seeing them. My OH is around through the day but he is busy so doesn't talk to them much. I found when it was very cold and dark it was hard work. :pig: :pig:
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The biggest difficulties will be if you had a sick pig, very difficult to cope with that in the dark, and if they escaped. Perhaps you could share pigs with someone who could do half the work for you.