The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: Mel on October 03, 2011, 01:53:15 pm
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Hi all :wave:
I have a yellow labrador-"BunBun" whom was given to me around 18 months ago,she is better than she was,however,she is still so incredibly nervous.As I understand she was badly treated beforehand and obviously it has taken it's toll on her.
She is terrified of my Geese,worried about the chickens-except two or three,jumps out of her skin at any fast movement inside the house,we cannot swat flies as she sits and trembles uncontrollably,terrible road sense and would run into the path of any vehicle-so I have to drive 5 miles away to walk her in a huge park.
If I was to raise my voice at anyone-even say if on the phone,she shall again tremble,so I have to mind myself and tiptoe around for her sake.It breaks my heart to see her trembling like this,I always assure her and cuddle her saying I would never harm her.she has had the odd accident in the house and I am not the type like someone I know whom punishes her dogs and waves a rolled up newspaper sellotaped together at them! -She also has one of those electric shock collars-and we were friends for 16 years until she bought that!
I would never scream at Bunbun-(Honey),I know she loves me so much,everyone can see she is Mummy's girl,she is very nervous around Men,However,she is now used to Chris and is a lot better than she used to be.
Oddly enough,she was given to me by a local gamekeeper whom told me how he came by her,however,every time they turn up-his wife and him,Bunny races to the paddock and hides...mmmm,makes you wonder what really happened to her.
Anyway,any advice would be appreciated,I do not feel she is living life to the full due to her fear and would do anything to have her completely relaxed All of the time-and not just when she is close to me-she has slept with me since she came and will not go to bed without me!
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First things first - your reaction may be making it worse. I have a nervous dog too - he is scared of other dogs, but absolutely 100% with people.
I was told to IGNORE any negative behaviour and PRAISE even the smallest slight positive behaviour.
I was also told to take him off any foods that are high in E numbers, additives and colourants. And a long time ago an old breeder told me to get bakers yeast for a nervous spaniel I had then. I haven't tried it this time as I don't know where to get it. It came in a cube and was like a sort of putty, she was given a knob of butter sized bit every day. I managed to get her from being a total wreck to performing and winning well in the show ring, where it is noisy, there are loads of people and loads of dogs - so it must have worked. There are various herbal products as well but I must admit I'm not 100% convinced about them.
Hope that helps?
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I'd suggest trying reiki too ;)
I've been working with the dog's trust, giving reiki to some of their long term residents (dogs who aren't coping with kennel life & are incredibly scared/stresses) and the staff are all noticing a difference in the dogs' behaviour.
I know it's kinda hocus pocus sounding, but it is worth condidering.
I can have a go at 'sending' some to him if you want ? You'll need to email me a photo of him (kkjmckay@aol.com) and tell me his name, age and location (town or villiage, don't need house number or postcode lol!)
Karen :wave:
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Is bakers yeast the same as active yeast as that can be purchased at a supermarket.
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First things first - your reaction may be making it worse. I have a nervous dog too - he is scared of other dogs, but absolutely 100% with people.
I was told to IGNORE any negative behaviour and PRAISE even the smallest slight positive behaviour.
I was also told to take him off any foods that are high in E numbers, additives and colourants. And a long time ago an old breeder told me to get bakers yeast for a nervous spaniel I had then. I haven't tried it this time as I don't know where to get it. It came in a cube and was like a sort of putty, she was given a knob of butter sized bit every day. I managed to get her from being a total wreck to performing and winning well in the show ring, where it is noisy, there are loads of people and loads of dogs - so it must have worked. There are various herbal products as well but I must admit I'm not 100% convinced about them.
Hope that helps?
Hi Doganjo,
I'm not sure what you mean by my reactions are making her worse? I don't tell her off,I am always giving her praise,even when she eats all of her dinner.When she has had an accident in the house,I Have to calm her down because she already knows or acts like she has done something wrong.example.I woke up and she was hiding with her head behind the sofa-shaking uncontrollably,I already knew something was up,found a poop next to the back door,if I do not"pacify" her,she would shake for hours,I have to hug her and tell her it is ok!-it is almost like she is expecting to receive a beating or something horrid!
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Thought I would add,she tends to squint her face up a little when she feels is unsure.
Pic below in the paddock last weekend.Though she is quite relaxed here!
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bless her, sounds alot like our dog when we got her.
the thing with "accidents" is really to ignore them totally - I mean, ignore the dog while you clear it up .... then change the activity to something the dog can be praised for.
giving her any attention can reinforce the behaviour, including the shaking etc. she needs distracting then praising.
what do you feed her?
give her a hug from me! :dog:
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It's very difficult, but if you cuddle her when she is trembling then you are reinforcing that behaviour..... have you ever seen any of the Cesar Dog Whisperer shows? - some interesting stuff in them on dog behaviour
Good luck
Tish :thumbsup:
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Not to ruffle feathers, but I find Mr Milan to be a vicious bully. And that's putting it mildly.
Have a look at www.dogpages.org.uk (http://www.dogpages.org.uk) , they have a section on the forum for behaviour.
I know it sounds harsh, but the "reassuring" is reinforcing the scared behaviour. Almost as if.... you're telling her that she's right to cower and hide?
Have you heard of DAP diffuser/spray? It's a copy of the pheromone that bitches secrete when suckling pups. The pheromone pomotes a feeling of relaxation and security. I've used this with success when moving house and getting my collie used to a different vehicle/crate. It could be useful to take the edge of the panic and allow you to train?
My collie is a timid wee soul - nothing like as scarred as yours - but I find a general calm approach, ignoring her completely while I fix mistakes, and giving her room to go and hide if she feels the need (e.g. if "big scary men" are nearby) are good.
Will she just sit with you on the floor? Watching TV or something? Stroking my dog's head quite firmly, from almost the nose tip up between the eyes, seems to be almost hypnotic for her - not sure if that's an individual thing though!
Another side note - when I feed raw, she is generally more laid back when needed and "sharper" when needed. On dog biscuits - even wheat free etc - she is more hyper-but-distracted.
Good luck! :bouquet:
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I have not heard of the spray but shall investigate tomorrow-Thank you for that.I understand what you are saying regards telling her it is ok to run for cover,I shall try this and see if it helps.My only problem is she is 8 years of age,I do not know if this is too late to teach her otherwise.
What do you all do regards Thunder and lightning?I would say she is at her worst then,almost convulsing with fear!Same if a tractor or combine goes by the house!
Yes she is happy on the floor,we do not have a telly! Though she does like calm music.She has been laying down in the paddock over the last weekend-which I was surprised at as she does not like it all that much due to the Geese etc.
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In addition to what Doganjo and others advise, I would get the book Calming signals by Turid Ruugaas and it will really help. Dogs calm each other down by yawning, turning sideways etc and you can do it too - teaching your dog to stay calm using their own language. I used the techiniques along with other stuff to help my dog reactive dog - we can often be seen yawning at each other ! It really works and is fascinating especially if you have more than one dog and you can see them "talking" to each other.
You could try a thunder shirt for noise phobia but they are a bit expensive and don;t work for every dog. Best if you could borrow one first. You can get cd's with firework and thunder sounds so you could do some positive associations with the sounds - starting with very very low volumes.
Sounds as if she didn't have the best start in life but is lucky to have you now because you sound as if you will do your utmost to help her. Well done.
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I wholeheartedly agree with what everyone says about completely ignoring her fearful behaviours and finding her something else to think about.
I also think that the dogs in Mr Milan's shows look as though they've been brutalised between shots. Maybe his 'positive energy' is delivered in watts?
Re: thunder and lightening, and fireworks too, I've never found any behavioural ways to calm some dogs (until they get older and start to go deaf!) We used to get ACP from the vet, which sedated them to the point of not minding - ok for 5th November once a year, but not very practical for all thunderstorms. Some people say Rescue Remedy works - I haven't tried it on dogs myself.
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..... bless :love:
you have got a big task on your hands leghorn, My only suggestion is you need to be Pack leader and be confident and positive for her when she is scared, so not to show you are upset if she gets worried by any situation.
good luck
Tilly :wave:
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Hi, I remember seeing some one with an X gun dog that was the same or similar, then I remembered a dog I used to own years ago, we could never shout around her as she would run off and hide, we never hit her or had any reason to punish her in any way as she was as good as gold, no accidents but the odd wee when she was small. My point being, it does sound like she has had a bad start but sometimes, like some people, dogs can be more anxiouse than others, although our old Lab did not stress at gun shot or thunder etc, just humans shouting!!! I suggest you just keep things as calm as possibe and keep talking very gently to her and letting her sit by your feet, with a gentle stroke of her ears as they find that calming too, maybe she would feel better in a crate covered over with a warm comfy blanket in!!! I do not post on here much as I just like to read but, just felt I needed to add my experience, you are doing a grand job!
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Gosh Leghorn, and I thought I had problems with my new girl!
I too have been worried about Nov 5th, I remember a lab x collie my parents had, she would crawl behind an armchair in the corner, or under the television somehow, looking back, and reading current advice, I realise we probably reinforced the behaviour, thinking we were reassuring her, but maybe putting it into her head that there WAS something to be scared of, because we seemed to be worried too!
I'm planning on putting lights and music on and closing the curtains, we are lucky, we generally only get the local town and the local pub (so 2 nights of fireworks), but I realise some places can go on for a week or so.
I can't give better advice than you've already had, I do find being fairly casual seems to be relaxing my girl, so good luck with your boy.
BTW - whats a 'thundershirt'?
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Our collie is terrified of the breadmaker ???
Living beside the Army training camp is great for desensitisation to loud noises - Nov 5th will be a breeze for us (I hope) :)
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Our gundogs don't mind gunfire (obviously - in fact they get quite excited!) but they don't like fireworks - especially the ones that screech/whistle! DAP really helped. So did distraction e.g. a kong stuffed with treats. Oddbod is quite right though: some dogs are just more jumpy than others. You'd swear that one of my labs had been abused in the past, but I know he hasn't - he's just a nervous dog!
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I have a very gun shy collie, not good as we have a shoot on the estate next to us. I must admit she is getting better mainly because i completely ignore all her bad behaviour when they are shooting and accept i will get not a lot of positive work done with her while they are shooting. but i don''t take her home, just put her on the lead and pat her occasionally and praise her when she sits still.
November 5th she paces and pants and again we ignore her and she has her "safe" place under the cupboard in the outhouse,our other dog is so laid back he completely ignores all loud bangs.
The trouble is fireworks go off weeks in advance here so our bitch is a bit off her food during this time so i have to adjust the time i feed her to get some food into her a bit of a management nightmare but we get by.
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A friend of mine calls her local farmer's bird-scarers "Collie-scarers". It makes taking her collie out a nightmare.
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One other thought that would be worth trying with the other things suggested is Adaptil - used to be called DAP. This is the synthetic version of the pheremone a bitch produces to reassure her puppies. The plug in versions work well with most dogs that are frightened of fireworks, but for a dog that is frightened outside it comes in a collar - just needs to be fitted close to the skin.
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I found these bodywraps brilliant in helping my terrier stop being afraid of bangs and also for my pointer who is just a silly wuzz! http://www.mekuti.co.uk/bodywraps.htm (http://www.mekuti.co.uk/bodywraps.htm)
Also we had a trainer who practised TTouch and I always use it on the dogs if ever they are fearful or anxious, it calms them right down. http://www.ttouchtteam.co.uk (http://www.ttouchtteam.co.uk) to find a practitioner local to you or check YouTube - there are lots of TTouch videos on how to do it.
Hope this helps
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Hi, :wave: So many replies,Thank you!
Bunny is pretty much ok when she is just alone with me,she tends to be by my side nearly all the time-she sleeps with me too! I have a picture below,this is bunny hiding from the Thunder! She does seem really uneasy when the gamekeeper comes around-and he is the one whom gave her to me,she is not overly keen on his wife either.I find that odd,especially as they always used to keep her in a kennel with small run.
I can always remember the first time i saw her,they said she was worried about everything and everyone yet she ran to the side of the cage wagging her tail and pining! They said she had never done this before and is why they decided to give her to me.I think she worries that when they come over,she believes she is going back! or something like that.
She is a lot better than what she was when she first came,for the first month or so,she stayed upstairs on the bed-only coming down for dinner and walkies.
She also likes to have constant attention-which I cannot give 24/7-that's cuddles and hugs.She cannot bear to be without me and sometimes,she is under my feet so much,I trip up.However,she will not come into the kitchen,she has to go through the kitchen to get to the back door and she races through like a bull in a china shop,when she is outside,she stops and wags her tail with a smile!
Anyway,I am overwhelmed with everyone's help and advice,I have been taking steps as mentioned though have not tried any medication other than calms which I have used on occasions since she arrived.i shall keep you all posted as to her progress :) xxxThank you xxx
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Aww she's just so adorable, good luck with her, you can't refuse a face like that
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Our Jack Russell used to take himself to his crate if he felt unsure of anything it was his comfort zone. Now he uses his bed in our bedroom if he feels the need to get away from the cats, children or my music which is far too loud. I think it is good for a dog to have their safe place for whatever reason. Sounds to me that the people you got your dog from are not that nice.
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.... What lovely photo`s --Please give her a little cuddle from me :love:
Tilly :wave:
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Ive had a lab or two in my time and no two were the same. Everyone seems to be consentrating on her negative behavior, What are the things she likes to do, find out and do a lot of them with her. She will probably never be what people think is normal and that is something you will have to live with give her lots of what she likes and you will be doing the best by her.
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right! on her positive side,walkies,walkies and more walkies,rolling about showing off her tummy,good food-I have recently changed her over to the BARF diet- she turns her nose up at everything else now..well,why wouldn't she. We regularly have T bone steaks here and I often cut out the T for her :o Yes she has the best steak,best pork and the best of everything and I do not care that it may cost a lot-It does not enter my head,as long as she is happy is paramount to me ;D
Yesterday we went on a really long walk-I wanted to take photo's of a group of red kites we have locally but could not get close enough,bless,Bunny was wiped out and had to stop for a rest hehe! There again,it was about 8 miles.
I have given her lots of hugs from you all-she is lapping them up lab style ;D Thank you so much!
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Leghorn,
You sound as if you are doing a really great job and the dog is getting top notch treatment. T-bone steak, I'm tempted to come and stay ;D ;D
Sally