The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Leri on September 27, 2011, 11:13:20 am
-
What age do you wean your piglets generally? Or does it depend? Would you split up a large litter and wean the ones that have done well and leave the smaller ones on mum longer?
I have always thought 8-10 weeks, but pretty sure my first two sows were brought here at 5 or 6 weeks.
I have in the past aimed at 10 weeks but actually weaned at 8 weeks in a case of only three in the litter and them being huge, and then weaned in stages, from 8 weeks when we had a litter of 11.
This time I have 16(one litter on four, and one litter of 12) in together with two sows and they are cross suckling and am considering taking out the bigger ones this weekend when they will be six weeks - believe me some are huge (the litter of four), so that the others, some of which are quite skinny - not a good look on a pig! get a chance :-)
What do people think? Even if I leave these bigger ones in till 8 weeks, I will have to leave the others longer I think. Although my poor sow is looking thin on her back too.
I'm feeding 2 x 5 litre buckets full of nuts twice a day. Is this enough? I have apple pulp now too - and was going to replace a feed with it - should I just use it as a supplement?
Thanks for your advice everyone :-)
-
just feed the pulp as a supplement
8 weeks is normal 10 if you are wanting to delay going back to the boar
take the larger ones out at the weekend and see just how the others get on this is the advantage of weighing them you know week on week just what they are putting on :farmer:
-
I usually wean at 6 or 7 weeks so they are ready to go at 8 weeks. It also depends on the sow, some have had enough at 6 weeks and want to get away from them. As Robert says give the apple pulp as a supplement. The sow will soon put weight back on when they are weaned. Feed, they should be on about 20kg a day.
-
I wean when the sow and piglets are ready. This varies from sow to sow. Usually between 7 and 9 weeks.
-
Thanks everyone :-)
-
Feed, they should be on about 20kg a day.
This sounds a bit heavy on the feeding :-\ Do you mean 20 pounds BB ?
You'd be looking at each sow getting 3Kg (or 6lbs) plus half a kilo (1lb) for each piglet (16piglets = 8Kg)
So, by my reckoning that's only 14Kg or 28lbs
For weaning, just as others have said anytime between 6 and 10 weeks depending on how they, and mum are doing.
Karen :wave:
-
We usually wean about 7-8 weeks but have done it earlier with some of our sows when they have been milking off their backs and losing condition. We find it quite a struggle to get enough protein & calories into our lactating sows using ordinary sow & weaner feed - we usually supplement with some milk and sneak extra feeds in during the day. The apple pulp should just be fed as a supplement - don't give too much as it has no protein, but it does help stop them getting constipated!
-
Feed, they should be on about 20kg a day.
This sounds a bit heavy on the feeding :-\ Do you mean 20 pounds BB ?
You'd be looking at each sow getting 3Kg (or 6lbs) plus half a kilo (1lb) for each piglet (16piglets = 8Kg)
So, by my reckoning that's only 14Kg or 28lbs
There seems to be some rule about lactating sow rations, that they cannot ever be added up correctly!
Karen, I am pretty sure that 6 + 16 = 22 (lbs) and 3 + 8 = 11 (kg) ; where am I going wrong?
Meanwhile, I cannot seem to get the same answer in two places about how much for her for the piglets. Before she was pregnant Meg was getting just under 4lb a day plus a bit of whey. (And was frankly a bit fat carrying a bit too much condition.) As per the Andy Case book I doubled her rations in the last three weeks before farrowing. Back to 4lbs on farrowing and now with 5 piglets I had understood I would want to take her up to 6-and-a-half pounds a day plus some whey. But a few places have said 1lb / piglet / day at three weeks...
She would certainly eat more than I am giving her and I can see her figure is returning, so I think she needs more than I'm giving her.
So, today was day 4; what would you be feeding her now and in 24 days time?
-
I can see what happy hippy has done - and I think it's just a mix up of numbers - but that the 22lbs is right. And then after weaning - still a lb per piglet? Or more? Or would you then go onto finisher food? :-/
-
We wean at 7 weeks and then the piglets have a week to settle without mum before going off to new owners or into our own rearing paddocks. Tehy are also wormed & tagged at this time.
I think the confusion on feed is that some of us work in imperial and some work in metric, i'm old school so use imperial. A lactating sow needs her 6lb per day + 1lb per piglet as yours Leri are cross suckling its a bit difficult but i would say 12lb for two sows and 16lb for the 16 piglets so 28lbs for the day split into two feeds (3 would be better so they don't get constipated) Apple pulp as a supplement.
Sally the idea is to build up to this max gradually so for Meg i would start on her 6lb for her + 1/2lb each for piglets and then if they are appearing hungrier or Meg is, up it to the max, you can start putting creep/grower out for piglets at ten days old, they generally start to pinch mums at this age.
HTH
Mandy :pig:
-
Feed, they should be on about 20kg a day.
This sounds a bit heavy on the feeding :-\ Do you mean 20 pounds BB ?
You'd be looking at each sow getting 3Kg (or 6lbs) plus half a kilo (1lb) for each piglet (16piglets = 8Kg)
So, by my reckoning that's only 14Kg or 28lbs
There seems to be some rule about lactating sow rations, that they cannot ever be added up correctly!
Karen, I am pretty sure that 6 + 16 = 22 (lbs) and 3 + 8 = 11 (kg) ; where am I going wrong?
So, today was day 4; what would you be feeding her now and in 24 days time?
You're right with your numbers Sally, it's 2 sows and 16 piglets though, hence the extra 3Kg ;)
I think the rule is "everyone does it differently" :D
My gilts & sows get 6lbs of feed per day plus a pound for each piglet (the Kunes get half this amount) I build them up to full rations over the course of the first 7-10 days or so. It varies depending on how mum's doing how quickly we increase it. I keep mummy pig on this amount until the piglets are weaned, but most piglets are starting to show an interest in food by around 2-3 weeks old, so I start to offer them food around this time. Not huge amounts - just a handful each - but it takes some of the pressure off mum. You'll know when they're ready cos they'll start pinching mum's ;)
HTH
Karen x
-
Thanks all. And a very big thank you from Meg :pig:, who will be getting rather more sow rolls from now on!!
-
Hi Karen
I was working on 6lb each sow and 2lb a piglet as I thought they were 8 weeks that makes 44lb which is 20kg. :wave:
-
Ah, that explains it ;)
:thumbsup:
-
No they're 5 and a half weeks - and that sum was in my head this morning when I was divvying out feed and realised what sally (and I had done) and that happy hippy was right! didn't realise I needed a Maths degree! Lol
-
What age do you wean your piglets generally? Or does it depend? Would you split up a large litter and wean the ones that have done well and leave the smaller ones on mum longer?
I have always thought 8-10 weeks, but pretty sure my first two sows were brought here at 5 or 6 weeks.
I have in the past aimed at 10 weeks but actually weaned at 8 weeks in a case of only three in the litter and them being huge, and then weaned in stages, from 8 weeks when we had a litter of 11.
This time I have 16(one litter on four, and one litter of 12) in together with two sows and they are cross suckling and am considering taking out the bigger ones this weekend when they will be six weeks - believe me some are huge (the litter of four), so that the others, some of which are quite skinny - not a good look on a pig! get a chance :-)
What do people think? Even if I leave these bigger ones in till 8 weeks, I will have to leave the others longer I think. Although my poor sow is looking thin on her back too.
I'm feeding 2 x 5 litre buckets full of nuts twice a day. Is this enough? I have apple pulp now too - and was going to replace a feed with it - should I just use it as a supplement?
Thanks for your advice everyone :-)
8 - 10 weeks they are like little elephants by now I bet!! 21 days is a good start. The milk peaks at 21 days and then it begins to fall away, The little pigs will have been eating from day 10 and be quite good on creep feed by now. they will also be drinking water out of a bowl or a piglet nipple , and only going to mum now and again for a feed. When offered feed as they were in the paddock with mum they come away quickly They area all with their mates and doing fine, Pork in no time.
-
I took four boys out - little smashers! All my saddlebacks litter. They loved it in the paddock and think they gave themselves belly ache with all that green!!
Their mother sulked and lay on her teats while the other piglets ran around her. Felt awful - wished i'd left her one of her own and decided I'd give her one back the next day. But by the next morning she was happily feeding four of the large blacks piglets :-) and giving her a bit of a break as she now only had 8 to feed - this is since Saturday and they are looking great!
Sold one from there last night - lady came to see them and said they were bigger than some 8 weeks ones she'd bought at a sale at the weekend. So feeling much happier now that they are doing fine :-)
-
I feed 2kg per lactating sow and gradually increase feed intake over the following 7 to 10 days up to a maximum of 2kg plus 0.4kg per piglet split over two feeds, during summer but increase to 2.5kg plus 0.4kg during winter.
I mix my feed with water as this results in a better uptake than when offered just dry and also prevents wastage.
I wean at between 6 to 8 weeks depending on litter size
-
What age do you wean your piglets generally? Or does it depend? Would you split up a large litter and wean the ones that have done well and leave the smaller ones on mum longer?
I have always thought 8-10 weeks, but pretty sure my first two sows were brought here at 5 or 6 weeks.
I have in the past aimed at 10 weeks but actually weaned at 8 weeks in a case of only three in the litter and them being huge, and then weaned in stages, from 8 weeks when we had a litter of 11.
This time I have 16(one litter on four, and one litter of 12) in together with two sows and they are cross suckling and am considering taking out the bigger ones this weekend when they will be six weeks - believe me some are huge (the litter of four), so that the others, some of which are quite skinny - not a good look on a pig! get a chance :-)
What do people think? Even if I leave these bigger ones in till 8 weeks, I will have to leave the others longer I think. Although my poor sow is looking thin on her back too.
I'm feeding 2 x 5 litre buckets full of nuts twice a day. Is this enough? I have apple pulp now too - and was going to replace a feed with it - should I just use it as a supplement?
Thanks for your advice everyone :-)
You would be better to wean at 3 weeks of age..... this does not pull the sow down so far, and gives her a better chance of coming back in to heat in the next week. If she is thin and tired looking from having her piglets around for so long she takes forever to come back on. the milk peaks at 3 weeks and the piglets are eating by then, kno real reason to leave them with mum. The milk is going off and they are eating more and more, she is running down to a thinner state. She should be eating around 10 - 12 kg of feed per day. and she should be drinking around 50 litres of water per day or more.
-
3 weeks? Wow. I know we got ours at 5 weeks - and had thought 6 weeks - but 3 weeks seems way early. Granted the sow wouldn't lose as much condition but still seems a bit harsh on her and on the piglets.
-
Thats what commercial farms do Leri, they're legally obliged to leave the pigs with their mothers for two weeks but in the commercial workld time is money.
Our traditional style of pig keeping means we can take our time and wean from six weeks onwards, most wean at 8wks. So unless you have problems with feeding or your soe cocks her toes don't even go there!
HTH
Mandy :pig:
-
i read somewhare that piglelts have to be on milk for 40 days old age cant remember :farmer:
-
What happens when they are weaned at 21 days ???
-
not going senile yet it is on this very forum under sugar beet violet posted a link to the bpa website and there is a link to organic pig production page five
no wonder organic pigs are like hens teeth ;) :farmer:
-
40 days that's only about 6 weeks - so that's ok. It does seem a bit of a commercial thing to do. Depriving the sow of her mothering time and the piglets of the best start in life (even of it is only a short life) - surely they grow better on milk combined with solids too - doesn't really seem economical - except I suppose they want the sow back in pig. Poor things :-(
-
40 days that's only about 6 weeks - so that's ok. It does seem a bit of a commercial thing to do. Depriving the sow of her mothering time and the piglets of the best start in life (even of it is only a short life) - surely they grow better on milk combined with solids too - doesn't really seem economical - except I suppose they want the sow back in pig. Poor things :-(
Milk peaks at 3 weeks....so the piglets have had the best milk the sow is going to produce. From there on the milk becomes poor and the piglets who have now been eating for the last 11 days will have to resort to continuing this trend....... as they wont get what they need from the sow any more. The milk is just a small supplement that is now dragging the sow down. So weaning at 3 weeks of age is fine, but good feed is necessary to bring them on quickly in readyness for market in anothersay 12 to 13 weeks for pork. another 22 to 23 weeks for bacon. If the abattoir wants suckers then they may be weaned off mum on to the truck.
-
I don't think many of the traditional or rare breed pigs in the UK would be making pork weight at 16 weeks though Blonde ;)
If you were to add a bit of Landrace, Large White or pietrain to the breed mix then maybe, but most of the UK's traditional breeds (in a non-commercial set-up) are finishing around 20-22 weeks at the earliest I think. Plus you've got to factor in the effect of the temperatures here being lower - I think that probably extends the growing time a bit. Up here in the frozen north (central Scotland) my pigs go for pork around 24 weeks and bacon at 32 ish weeks - if I were to try and force them on any quicker I'd end up with loads of fat, I prefer the 'slow grow' option. ;)
Karen :wave:
-
not forgetting the hampshire ;) :farmer: ;)
-
not forgetting the hampshire ;) :farmer: ;)
Ah, but your Hampshire's are big meaty mo-fo's ;) ;D and grow like nobodies business :thumbsup:
I would have thought they'd definately be ready for pork & bacon sooner than the Tamworths, Large Blacks or GOS's (for example) which are definately more slow grow, non-commercial breeds............wouldn't you agree ?
Karen :wave:
-
aye your right with the meaty bit even big carcases do not get fat
def ready before other breeds now if i could get SAC or vion to experiment with Hampshire's things might change after all they are a rare breed IE not many in the country and if it is in the teens of breeders then that is rare you have to agree on this
which leads to the question who set the weight limits for pork bacon and cutters :farmer:
-
Good question...... butchers of long ago probably....... but you have to grow to that limitation and no further otherwise they penalize you and you miss out on your profit.......
-
Yes, I think the traditional 85Kg liveweight being pork and 110Kg plus being bacon must be an older guide.
As far as I can see at the abattoir the majority of commercial porkers are away smaller than this.
I'm sure I read that Berkshires make the best pork around 55Kg liveweight (might have been 'Practical Pigs')
I'll maybe give my pal up in the commercial piggery a phone and ask him weight/ages that they send to slaughter. Surely it'll depend on what the 'consumers' ie. supermarkets & wholesallers are looking for ?
From my point of view they go when they look ready, weighing up how much they've cost, how much more would be gained by running them on a bit longer and how many times they try to escape ;) ;D
It's finding that magic point where you'll turn a (bigger) profit, instead of breaking even............ and that's not always 85Kg.
Karen :wave:
-
If you deal commercially there is no other option but to grow to the weights that they want for the market.
suckers..... to say 15 kg
Spit pigs ..vary a little from 30 to 45 kg
Pork ......60 - 80 kg
bacon.....90-95 kg
barrows ...200 kg +
Choppers..... that will be determined at the time you turn them off and send them.
Price per kg starts off high and drops as the pig matures.
-
i have seen many pig lorries heading to vion at broxburn i may be wrong but they look bigger than the 110 kilos and since vion don't recognise the small producer all i can do is ask on here :farmer:
-
i have seen many pig lorries heading to vion at broxburn i may be wrong but they look bigger than the 110 kilos and since vion don't recognise the small producer all i can do is ask :farmer:
Here in Oz they dont want anything that is that heavy any more. 95 kg I think is the cut off point. But barrows are sold privately by me, so I can do the heavier. Pork weights....depends on the company and their market but I do know there is some variation here. I dont grow bacon anymore, dont want to push a big animal around, so do pork at the lighter weight. Also do afew suckers to 14 - 15 kg and a few spits......30 - 36 kg LW very few any heavier than that.
-
i have seen many pig lorries heading to vion at broxburn i may be wrong but they look bigger than the 110 kilos and since vion don't recognise the small producer all i can do is ask :farmer:
Here in Oz they dont want anything that is that heavy any more. 95 kg I think is the cut off point. But barrows are sold privately by me, so I can do the heavier. Pork weights....depends on the company and their market but I do know there is some variation here. I dont grow bacon anymore, dont want to push a big animal around, so do pork at the lighter weight. Also do afew suckers to 14 - 15 kg and a few spits......30 - 36 kg LW very few any heavier than that.
Highest weight in OZ is 102kg for gilts and 105kg for boars at Linley Valley, Dorsogna wa sare desired weight, but I think you could get away with 110 kg at a push. Anything after that is penalised. :wave: