The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Renewables => Topic started by: Buffy the eggs layer on September 02, 2011, 09:22:27 am
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Hi,
we have recently had a fireline 8kw multifule stove fitted. I have had a few small test fires for a few hours each time as the manual suggests but the self creaning glass has got very dirty. The model has an airwash system which is supposed to draw air from the rear of the unit to prevent build up on the glass. Although it is possible to see the air coming in through the flames the window keeps getting a brown film over it.
My questions are,
How do I achieve maximum output of 8 kw?
How do I use the fire to create a continuous background heat for several hours without constantly adding fuel?
How do I prevent this build up on the window?
I have been burning paper and card, kindling and cherry tree logs as well as some pieces of pre cut timber.
Any ideas?
Buffy
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The paper and card will create a lot of smoke, so try to keep that away from the front. Also any moisture in the wood, is it really well seasoned?
Cleaning is easy and free, get a sheet of newspaper and screw it up, dip it in water and then into fine (almost whiteish grey) ashes. and scrub the glass. Then use a dry sheet of scrunched up newspaper to dry and remove any smears. Dry the first scrunch then it too can be used as kindling, second one can go straight in!
Have you tried all the little air flow open/close options on the stove?
To make it last then you need the fire going really well and then add something tough wood-wise and chinky size, something with some heartwood. But it might be easier in a multifuel stove to use coal which will last longer. Or if not that, then those compressed sawdust briquettes are quite good, they burn for a long time.
I do also think that smaller fires will create more smoke in the stove as there is more air room in there. Try a big un. then the smoke has to go up the flue!
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our airwash only really works when the fire is turned up and blazing, when the fire idles it will last all day on one feed of coal but it does smoke the glass.
kn
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highest output would be dry wood, airwash open and top air feeds open, bottom air feed is better for coal but wood burns better from the top, also if you are wood burning try not to remove too much ash from the grate, wood burns really hot and it can damage (warp) the grate if you dont leave an ash buffer.
ps this is info i was given by a third party but it does seem to work for us
kn
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Cleaning is easy and free, get a sheet of newspaper and screw it up, dip it in water and then into fine (almost whiteish grey) ashes. and scrub the glass.
Yes, this works really well - but only with wood ash. Coal ash etc can scratch the glass according to our stove manual.
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Thanks guys,
I think some of the wood could be holding some moisture and I have been using the bottom vent more than the top. I will limit the amount of paper and card ( i think I have been setting it like my grandfather used to set the coal fire).
I have been leaving the ash in but I cleaned it out today as the tray was full.
I will see if I can find a good lump of dried oak for the next autumny evening and see if I can get a good blast out of it.
Buffy
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Cleaning is easy and free, get a sheet of newspaper and screw it up, dip it in water and then into fine (almost whiteish grey) ashes. and scrub the glass.
Yes, this works really well - but only with wood ash. Coal ash etc can scratch the glass according to our stove manual.
A hot wet cloth on warm glass works every bit as well as the damp-newspaper-and-ash. Get the fire started, then, when the glass is warmed but not yet hot, wet your cloth (dish/floorcloth type is best) under a hot tap and wipe the glass.
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My questions are,
How do I achieve maximum output of 8 kw?
Any ideas?
Buffy
Hi Buffy,
in addition to the comments made earlier, in general the output of a solid fuel heating device is rated at a 2 hour re-fuelling cycle (ie, virtually running flat out!) Most of the time the output will be about half the quoted output.
Our wood burning boiler is quoted as 30kw, but most of the time the actual output will be about 10kw, or even less if it is slumbering. It is for this reason that a heating engineer, after calculating the energy requirements of a house, will add 50% on if the device is solid fuel. A gas or oil boiler can supply its rated output almost continuously, from the moment of switch on.
For interest, see attached file with solid fuel efficiency.
John
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Beech-wood fires burn bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year;
Store your beech for Christmastide
With new-cut holly laid beside;
Chestnut's only good, they say,
If for years 'tis stored away;
Birch and fir-wood burn too fast
Blaze too bright and do not last;
Flames from larch will shoot up high,
Dangerously the sparks will fly;
But ash-wood green and ash-wood brown
Are fit for a Queen with a golden crown.
Oaken logs, if dry and old,
Keep away the winter's cold;
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke;
Elm-wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold;
It is by the Irish said;
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread,
Apple-wood will scent the room,
Pear-wood smells like flowers in bloom;
But ash-wood wet and ash-wood dry
A King may warm his slippers by.
Anon.
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Thanks Nicandem,
that a delightful poem!
and a great way to remember the heating qualities of the different trees. :D
Buffy
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that a delightful poem!
and a great way to remember the heating qualities of the different trees. :D
I agree :) fantastic.
IMO - you cant prevent any build up on the window, its always going to happen, however I have found that the hotter the fire the more it 'burns' off.
You may have to fuel your fire for either aesthetics or efficiency, give it a try and have a laugh starring into it all night - its 'warming', give it a go. Many an evening I have spent trying different vent settings, different woods, coals, offcuts, old letters from the accountant ;) - Mmmm solid fuel (with an oil backup!!!)
Again - nice poem nicandem, got that on bookmark.
Baz
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Nice poem nicandem, but it doesn't mention sycamore :( - I've got lots of that this year and I don't know how it'll burn ::).
;D
m
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Similar here from tizaala - but it doesn't mention sycamore, either, mab!
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=18937.msg177392#msg177392 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=18937.msg177392#msg177392)
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seasoned sycamore burns ok not as good as ash but good enough.
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We burn ash in ours mostly.
When we first moved in , I was obsessed with having the glass clean, (but I think that was just because I had so much bother installing it and wanted it to look new forever) now I'm not bothered and it only gets cleaned two or three times a year. The airwash works sometimes, and I'v often wondered if it has anything to do with the weather. It works on windy days/nights. I have the multifuel version, but dont have a damper. Might stick one in, as a friend has one and says it gives more control over the fire.
As mentioned above, a fill or 2 of coal will keep it burning all day and I find it a lot hotter than wood. the heat seems to stay in the bricks leaving the room cosy even the next morning.
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seasoned sycamore burns ok not as good as ash but good enough.
good enough is what I wanted to hear :) - wouldn't want to think my efforts to cut it up were wasted ;D .
Coal certainly is hot - I remember a couple of winters back I lit the fire when I got home from work, and once it was going, poured on half a bucket of coal. 2 hour later I poured on another half bucket and took the dog for her walk. When I got home I paused on entering the living room thinking: "what's that funny noise?"; then I realized - it was the sound of water boiling in the backboiler - had enough hot water for 3 REALLY hot baths that night. ;D
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3 hot baths? how dirty were you?? ;D
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Coal certainly is hot - I remember a couple of winters back I lit the fire when I got home from work, and once it was going, poured on half a bucket of coal. 2 hour later I poured on another half bucket and took the dog for her walk. When I got home I paused on entering the living room thinking: "what's that funny noise?"; then I realized - it was the sound of water boiling in the backboiler - had enough hot water for 3 REALLY hot baths that night. ;D
;D
BH bought a tonne of coal 3 years ago and we're still using it. We have a couple of shovels of coal ready on a really cold night, and use them (usually half a shovel at a time) to jazz the (wood) fire up.
Half a bucket of coal would have us having to sit out in the yard to cool down! :D
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Thanks everyone,
what is the average price of coal per tonne?
Buffy
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i pay £10 a bag, so £100 a ton.
we have an open fire, in the cold part of winter use about 2 bags a week plus logs. (its our only heat source and on constantly)
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i pay £10 a bag, so £100 a ton.
A 100kg bag? That's a very big bag. More likely to be 20 or 25kg? Our coalie delivers a tonne in 20 x 50kg sacks - but I can barely drag one of those 50kg bags.
Anyways, coal down here is way more than £200 / tonne now, so if your figures are right we'll be up directly! :D
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Yes, retail coal is over £200 per ton, but I've just collected a trailer load direct from the local opencast for £85 per ton (plus 5% VAT).
The total gross weight on the weighbridge was 4.08 tons, of which 1.3 tons was the net weight of coal. You need a substantial trailer to withstand a giant loader tipping coal direct into it, but the saving in cost is worth it. Together with the wood, that's us set up for winter.
John
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I am gobsmacked, John. We have a trailer that we fetch up to 1.3T of cattle cake in (tipped in from a big loader), so I am certainly going to make enquiries about possible savings if we fetch our own either from our local merchant or, if I can locate one, our local mine. Thanks for posting! :thumbsup:
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i dont know the technical terms for output, but this is how ours works...
i live in a static caravan, early 80's (not much insulation).
i use pine off cuts (free in one ton bags for the collection ;D :thumbsup:) i sort that into kindling and bigger bits.
this stuff burns hotter than nuclear i swear.
once the fire is burning well i use elm. there are so many dead elms that can be had for the asking round here, and they dont need to be stored.
i spent all last winter indoors in a bikini it was that hot ;D ;D
a really good sized elm log or a scant shovel of coal and the burner closed down will tick over all night, then a good load of pine the next morning and we start again.
i cook everything and heat all my water of my little burner :love:
if you use elm wood, when you come to split it, use a proper splitting axe and turn your rounds upside down so you split with the growth direction not against it. it truly is a bugger to split otherwise ;)
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Yes, retail coal is over £200 per ton, but I've just collected a trailer load direct from the local opencast for £85 per ton (plus 5% VAT).
BH says I'm to find out where your opencast mine is and we may take a trip up. Would you share details please? (PM me if you don't want to publish on here.)
Thanks
Sally
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Hi Sally,
pm sent.
John
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3 hot baths? how dirty were you?? ;D
no comment ;)
£85 a ton!!
I don't suppose anyone knows of a coalmine anywhere near Suffolk? ::)
mab
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Hi guys,
the coal would be cheaper than the wood around here. How do I find out where the local pits are for the Leeds / york/ hull area?
Buffy
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Hi Buffy
There is a great coal merchants in Maltongate, if you are interested I will try to get the name and tel no. We don't use much coal now we have both fireplaces with multi-fuel stoves in, as we burn wood all the time. Luckily we have a licence to collect in Dalby forest as we live there.
With our two stoves we find that when they are closed down and in 'tick-over' the glass will blacken up. We then open them right up and burn on a high flame for a whilebto burn off the soot on the glass and this works really well. When burning wood we only use the top vents on the one that has both top and bottom vents. Our other stove only has one vent so that keeps it simple!
We also never clean our ash box out as the wood ash creates a good bed that never seems to grow past a certain point. ( either that or my OH does it on the sly!!)
Hope that helps, let me know if you need details of the coal merchants in Maltongate.
:wave:
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the only problem with wood ash is it eventually corrodes the metal of the grate in the burner, so im told.
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Wouldn't know about that, we haven't stayed anywhere long enough yet to find that out !! ;D ;D
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Really worth getting a moisture meter - >£20. We've tried 2 log suppliers this winter and both say they are suppplying seasoned ready to burn logs but both contained logs well over the rcommended 20% moisture level - some as high as 40% (pretty much green). Agree that you sometimes have to choose between easthetics and efficiency. Our Clearview will burn very slowly on one log without too much glass deposit, but our Prity boiler stove is much more basic in the air control department and needs to be full and blazing (remembering that if your glass is sooting up a lot, you may not be burning hot enough to prevent tarring of your chimney). When we had our burneres changed after moving in, the chimneys were so coated in creosote that the diameter was down to 2" in places - surprised the previous occupants lived to sell us their house! Seasoned sycamore burns brilliantly.
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the only problem with wood ash is it eventually corrodes the metal of the grate in the burner, so im told.
http://www.ieabcc.nl/meetings/task32_Glasgow_ws_ash/05_Kassman.pdf (http://www.ieabcc.nl/meetings/task32_Glasgow_ws_ash/05_Kassman.pdf)
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yup thats the one ! ;D
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Really worth getting a moisture meter - >£20
Many thanks for this info - any suggestions of a supplier, please?
:farmer:'s Boy