The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: HappyHippy on August 08, 2011, 04:04:43 pm
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I've been asked about this and wondered if anyone had any info, advice or contacts for the central Scotland region.
Thanks in advance folks
Karen :wave:
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Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is a home kill ? We've killed our own pigs, a few year's ago, and plan to do so again. We do kill and butcher our own sheep and wild deer, etc., regularly. Only for our own consumption tho.
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that's exactly it Jane, killing & butchering on your own premises.
Under English regs, you can only do this for your own comsumption, and it must be done humanely.
How did you kill yours?
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In Wales it has to be done with a free roaming bullet (rifle or shotgun) or a captive bolt gun. The farmer and his immediate house-hold are allowed to eat the meat. You can kill them by gassing too but not 100% sure on the regulations on that ....... seems a bit ewww to me. Better off shooting them.
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just as little blue said you have to dispose of the guts legally and skin it unless you have a scalding tank not everybody that holds a FAC is allowed to kill animals there is a technique to it also the hygiene of the premises used a shitty old byre would not be a good place to perform this :farmer:
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whats a free roaming bullet for shotguns?????
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whats a free roaming bullet for shotguns?????
Not sure how it is a stated or categorised but you can do it with a shotgun (obviously you need a licence for a shotgun)
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just thinking ahead.... i have a shotgun..... can i kill a badly injured pig and then dispose by burning as i have with poultry
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My OH uses a .22 or a deer rifle, depending on the animal. And we used to rear a lot of sea ducks in a Brooder House (indoor deep water baths etc with quarantine facilities). When we retired from that we converted the building into a Butchery, complete with all equipment and a Chill Room. It's very smart ! Here on the island a lot of folk used to kill and butcher their own sheep, me included. We skinned the last pigs - which is why I'd quite like the next lot to go to the abattoir for the crackling :yum:
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Harry, you can kill an injured pig but you can't dispose of it by burning.
I was told by our trading standards people that ONLY THE SLAUGHTERER can eat the meat from a home kill, not even their family (though who's going to check I don't know).
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I was told by our trading standards people that ONLY THE SLAUGHTERER can eat the meat from a home kill, not even their family (though who's going to check I don't know).
We got told it's the farmers/slaughtermans immediate household. So if we killed one only myself, hubby and my son could eat it.
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We got told it's the farmers/slaughtermans immediate household. So if we killed one only myself, hubby and my son could eat it.
Not correct. Only the person doing the slaughtering is allowed to eat it.
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Got it from this link.
http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/homeslaughterlivestockwales.pdf (http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/homeslaughterlivestockwales.pdf)
1.
“Home slaughter” is the slaughter of a livestock animal by its owner on their property for their own personal consumption or that of members of their immediate family living there. Home slaughter cannot take place in an approved slaughterhouse.
Not sure which or what is right now
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Welshlass
I am no authority on this subject but when viewing a property the owner told me that he had someone kill the pigs on the property and that only the family can consume them. That fits in with what you have said.
Sally
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I only go on what we researched online
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I'm not sure how come but I think the rules are different in Wales. I looked into it some years (maybe 6 years) ago, so there could have been changes since.
Anyway, at that time, in Wales the household could eat the meat, and it was legal to have someone come and slaughter on the holding for you. In England, as people have been saying, the official line was that only the slaughterer could eat the meat, not other family members, and the slaughterer had to live on the holding.
I would much prefer it done at home, it has to be less stressful for the pigs, doesn't it?
It was inevitable that this topic would go off into a general discussion on home-killing - sorry, Karen!
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and interesting the regional variations cheaper and easier to take them to the slaughter house anyone tried getting rid of guts legaly and what does it cost :farmer:
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Ther are three versions of the home kill guidance - one for each country
Scotlands below
http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/homeslaughterlivestockscot.pdf (http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/homeslaughterlivestockscot.pdf)
Haven't read all three line for line, but think they say the same thing
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Thanks for all the info folks - I'll pass it on ;)
Personally, I think I prefer taking them to the slaughterhouse :-\
I'd hate to have anything happen doing it at home and as many of you have said, getting rid of the 'waste' is definately not as easy as chucking it in the bin :o
Karen :wave:
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also the killing point some pigs have double skulls and just shrug of a small bullet then you have a big problem on your hands :farmer:
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also the killing point some pigs have double skulls and just shrug of a small bullet then you have a big problem on your hands :farmer:quote] to do a successful kill at home you need a 44 gal drum steel, that sits on a frame to allow you to put a fire underneath it., and fill that full of water, Light up your fire, and position your bath. Have the hose near by as the water might be too hot when put into the bath and you will have to cool it down to 68 - 70degress farenheit. Before the bath is filled you need to go out to shoot the pig and have a front end loader or two strong lads to lift a dead weight pig over the fence. You shoot the pig just behind the ear and towards the brain you will kill the pig one shot, no mess and no fuss, he will just drop to the ground. You bring the pig back and give him a minute to bleed out. Fill your bath while this is happening and when the temperture is right put the pig into the bath. Use a spade to remove a good proportion of the hair, make life easier on the table. Lift the pig out after a couple of minutes an proceeed with a knife (sharp) to remove the hair off the skin, YOu might ahve to put him back in for a couple of minutes but wait and see what temperature the water is before you do this.
Once the hair has been removed, hang your pig on a farme and cut the skin up along the stomach to the chest, careful not to cut open any of the stomach contents or the bladder. Once the body is open drop the guts into a bucket. Clean the pigs intnernal cavity thoroughly with the hose. Dig a hole in the garden and bury the guts, out of the birds and foxes way. This will break down in no time. Put a meat bag over the carcass and leave over night for the meat to set.
Next morning take the pig indoors and butcher it yourself, or get a butcher to do it for you any excess fat can be rendered down and stored as lard in small contaienrs, and this can be done in the microwave. You can collect the heart, liver , kidneys, And you can keep the skin on the roasts, just score before freezing. pack meat into freezer bags and freeze.
Hope this helps all you first timers. Enjoy !
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a good input from blonde that may be suitable to Australia BUT NOT THE UK
first i would take issue with the location to shoot the humane society clearly define the exact location of x marks the spot
second DO NOT TAKE BLONDE ADVICE ON DISPOSSLE OF THE GUTS/WASTE this is illegal unless you have dispensation because of your remote location :farmer:
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Yeah, thanks Blonde - a very detailed description. I'm guessing you've done a few yourself ;)
I'm just not 100% doing it at home, but at least I have the info if I change my mind (which, being a woman, I'm very likely to do ::) :D)
Thanks
Karen :wave:
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sod all that, slaughter house for me when ready, doing chickens is bad enough. bloody feathers everywhere.
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Even tho my slaughter house isn't local to me i'd always take them there. Think the only time i'd kill one of my own was if it was down or serioiusly injured :( i've researched that too and there is a local firm that will collect a dead pig for us and do whatever they do with it lol
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Very interesting thread. I have nothing to add personally but it brought to mind a lovely story by our dearly missed Wizard, about how it were done in t'old days. A bit long to embed so I have linked it. The countrymans way of keeping and killing his pig in the 1940's (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=5382.msg49654#msg49654)
Enjoy :wave:
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An interesting thread. I think in the uk, and I include myself in this, we are a bit too far removed from the necessity of home kills. My dad retired to a small island off tasmania and they used to determine the killing size of the pig by the largest bath that was available!
One day I'd like to 'take care' of the pigs at home as I'm sure they don't like the trip to the slaughter house. I try to make it as stress free as possible but the idea that it could end in their familiar environment does appeal. I think I'd need a lot more experience before I ever attempt it though, and a better setup for the butchering.
PS loved the story from Wizard.
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and interesting the regional variations cheaper and easier to take them to the slaughter house anyone tried getting rid of guts legaly and what does it cost :farmer:
It costs me £10 to dispose of animal bones, fat and waste (2 x 80 litre sealed dustbins). One has to be registered with the environment agency as a 'Licensed Waste Carrier - exempt' to transport it to the rendering plant.
I don't do 'home kill' as I sell my meat but I believe the situation to be as follows:
You can kill the pig yourself (humanely), gut it, cut it up provided it is for your own consumption. If you hire a slaughterman to do it for you at home he can only kill it, he cannot gut it etc as he would be providing a 'service' and that is illegal.
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Blondes description of killing and cleaning etc states that "next morning" you start butchering it. Presumably in the UK we'd always hang for a week before butchering ?
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it is meant to hang in a chill for 1 night at a slaughterhouse at home in a shed who knows what is near it if left to hang :farmer:
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[/quote]
I don't do 'home kill' as I sell my meat but I believe the situation to be as follows:
You can kill the pig yourself (humanely), gut it, cut it up provided it is for your own consumption. If you hire a slaughterman to do it for you at home he can only kill it, he cannot gut it etc as he would be providing a 'service' and that is illegal.
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I'm confused by the laws now. On the homeslaughter website it says
http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/homeslaughterlivestockwales.pdf (http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/homeslaughterlivestockwales.pdf)
"Slaughter on-farm by an itinerant slaughterman
26.
It is unlawful for a farmer to use the services of an itinerant slaughterman both to slaughter his animal and to dress it. This is because the slaughterman would be supplying goods (i.e. a dressed carcase) in the course of his business."
And it doesn't say anything like that on these links ....... which i got from the Food Standards Agency
http://wales.gov.uk/topics/environmentcountryside/ahw/animalwelfare/livestockwelfare/welfareofanimalsatslaughter/onfarmkillingandslaughter/?lang=en (http://wales.gov.uk/topics/environmentcountryside/ahw/animalwelfare/livestockwelfare/welfareofanimalsatslaughter/onfarmkillingandslaughter/?lang=en)
and
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/731/contents/made (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/731/contents/made)
I got the 2nd two links directly from a lady at the food standards agency when i queried something from the first link.
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Surely, all the waste you would have to dispose of would be the contents of the stomach and intestines. All else would be usable. I've been reading an old book on pig-killing which involves a razor sharp knife :-\) Seriously though ALL of the pig can be used and if he's been bellied out properly there will be no waste at all, seemingly.
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I don't do 'home kill' as I sell my meat but I believe the situation to be as follows:
You can kill the pig yourself (humanely), gut it, cut it up provided it is for your own consumption. If you hire a slaughterman to do it for you at home he can only kill it, he cannot gut it etc as he would be providing a 'service' and that is illegal.
[/quote]
I'm confused by the laws now. On the homeslaughter website it says
http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/homeslaughterlivestockwales.pdf (http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/homeslaughterlivestockwales.pdf)
"Slaughter on-farm by an itinerant slaughterman
26.
It is unlawful for a farmer to use the services of an itinerant slaughterman both to slaughter his animal and to dress it. This is because the slaughterman would be supplying goods (i.e. a dressed carcase) in the course of his business."
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It must have been revised then (I love it when they change the law and don't tell anyone) it used to be the case that you had to dress it yourself. If you can't hire a professional to kill things for you then you would have to be very experienced not to cause the creature suffering.
Although the Humane Slaughter Association website says:
Q 21. Can a slaughterman come out to my farm and kill my animals for me?
A 21. If you use the services of a slaughterman to slaughter your own animal (s) on farm, then consume the resulting meat you run the risk of contravening EU food hygiene regulations. This is because by law, dressed and butchered carcases cannot be supplied for consumption unless their carcass has been subject to inspection and health marking by the Meat Hygiene Service in a licenced premises. In the case of the slaughterman only killing your animal and not dressing or butchering the carcase, this may be legal, however the issue is unclear. It would be advisable to locate your nearest licensed abattoir, and arrange for your animal to be slaughtered there. You can then be assured that the animal’s welfare will be protected and the returned meat will have been inspected, health marked and butchered hygienically. It also avoids the issue of waste disposal of blood and other by-products. Please contact the Food Standards Agency on 020 7276 8377 in order to obtain advice about private slaughter of livestock.
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I'm due to make some phone calls to find out what the exact laws and regulations are (for my area anyway) as the info conflicts on-line. If we had the facilities to do a home kill and a collector of the inerds then we'd consider it. Until then (that won't happen) then they'll go to a slaughter house as normal
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it is meant to hang in a chill for 1 night at a slaughterhouse at home in a shed who knows what is near it if left to hang :farmer:
Then why, when we sent our last two pigs to the abattoir, did they recommend hanging in the chill room for a full week ?
I thought ALL meat was best hung; we certainly do it that way. And our "shed" is purpose built and immaculate, with a totally isolated chill room :P
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Welshlass,
The links you provide are not contradictory, just written by the FSA and others who don't want people home killing, so are phrased to persuade you not to !
The first link is the welsh guidance, which says you cannot pay a slaughterman to kill and dress, but does say under para 23 that the farmer can kill the animal himself.
The second link (Welsh government) repeats the same ie farmer can kill the animal himself, otherwise must be licenced slaughterman. The fact that this part does not state anything about consumption is just that it is covering killing, as are the 1995 regulations. Both these are just about being able to kill an animal, so don't cover the private consumption.
What is interesting is that the FASA 2011 guidance says
"It is unlawful for a farmer to use the services of an itinerant slaughterman both to slaughter his animal and to dress it. This is because the slaughterman would be supplying goods (i.e. a dressed carcase) in the course of his business."
whereas the same FSA guidance in the 2009 version stated
"It is unlawful for a farmer to use the services of an itinerant slaughterman both to slaughter his animal and to dress it. This is because the slaughterman would be supplying goods (i.e. a dressed carcase) in the course of his business. However, if the slaughterman did no more than kill the animal, leaving the farmer to dress and cut the carcase, the Courts might be less likely to conclude that the slaughterman was supplying goods (and more likely to be supplying services). If so, this activity might be held to be lawful, (i.e. the EU Food Hygiene Regulation 853/2004 would not prohibit it) although the issue is far from clear. The EU TSE controls would in any event apply."
The revision history of these documents states that the difference between 2009 and 2011 is "To reflect alternative arrangements for BSE Testing", so whilst TSE species are far more difficult (pigs are not in the TSE group), it looks like someone has made the decision to edit out the second part (no doubt on the grounds of being clear) and make it look as though any use of slaughterman would be illegal.
However in all cases, this would be for consumption of "immediate family living in the same household", and any "placing on the market" - eg giving or selling to anyone else would make that placing act illegal (although the kill could still be legal).
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Then why, when we sent our last two pigs to the abattoir, did they recommend hanging in the chill room for a full week ?
I thought ALL meat was best hung; we certainly do it that way. And our "shed" is purpose built and immaculate, with a totally isolated chill room :P
Lamb and beef clearly benefit from being hung, but most people do not think that pork does. However there are some advocates of hanging pork who say that the flavour does improve, so you pays your money....
In any event, pork does need to be hung for a day or two to let the meat "set up" ie become firmer which allows much easier butchery. Hanging for longer will not cause any problems, so hanging for a week (or even two) is fine.
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Had my first 2 pigs done at home before all the laws became so complex
I got a licenced slaughterman who used a captive bolt, but it was difficult as the pigs did not want to be handled by a stranger. Then we had to get the hair off (tamworth and gloucester old spot) As I didnt have a bath we used the old straw burning method, which I have to say was not all that successful unless you like your crackling with a 5 o'clock shadow.
I had them killed in winter so we hung them up in a shed to set and he came back to cut them up later.
All in all it was a real performance, and since then I have taken them to the abattoir. When they go in it all seems calm and organised now, and I have never noticed any signs of stress with the animals. I think if they have not been hurt or hassled over their lifetime they don't expect to be, so are not under stress
Other home kills have been sheep and beef and various poultry, but again it gets more and more difficult to organize so good or bad I feel the abattoir is probably the way to go.
Reading some of the links I hope the Government in its wisdom is not intending to make small poultry keepers gas their birds, and I hope The Poultry Club and other bodies will put the case against such an action forward
All the best
Sue
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Then why, when we sent our last two pigs to the abattoir, did they recommend hanging in the chill room for a full week ?
I thought ALL meat was best hung; we certainly do it that way. And our "shed" is purpose built and immaculate, with a totally isolated chill room :P
Lamb and beef clearly benefit from being hung, but most people do not think that pork does. However there are some advocates of hanging pork who say that the flavour does improve, so you pays your money....
In any event, pork does need to be hung for a day or two to let the meat "set up" ie become firmer which allows much easier butchery. Hanging for longer will not cause any problems, so hanging for a week (or even two) is fine.
Thanks for clarifying that, oaklandspigs - very helpful.
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janeislay i should have said the pork has to hang for a minimum of one night but you can leave them in the chill for as long as you want or the slaughterhouse permits it to be there it is law that the carcase hangs for a minimum of one night :farmer:
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A cool night under the eves of the house is a good idea, just have it out of reach of 4 legged friends and a meat bag over the top of it and around it to keep out the unwanted visitors at night.
Once the pig is slaughtered you can chill the meat and the next day cut it up to suit. Take the excess fat and put in the microwave amd turn the fat in to lard by rendering.
Enjoy your pig and your home kill
Here in Oz we are allowed to do our own kill just not allowed to sell from a home kill!
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The only thing you cant use on a pig is the squeal, Dont waste anything. take the guts out carefully stick a hose pipe in one end and flush clean , you need these for casings for your own sausages and the blood for blackpuddings, boil the head remove the flesh cut small and mix with the jelly and some bayleaf and seasoning and press it to make chawl. same with the trotters, bake the ears and your dogs will love e'm