The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: princesspiggy on August 06, 2011, 06:25:31 pm
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dorothy has never been ill in her life, so it was guaranteed she'd be ill while we were in wales for our 2 day holiday (a rare event)!!
history -
weaned from her first litter 2 weeks ago and moved into new woodland that shes shares with 2 GOS who are fine and healthy. she is the only pig that goes through the gap to the big pond tho.
a week ago she got kicked on the neck by a pony (when she was in season, she broke into the pony field and followed the stallion everywhere, screaming at him for hours before he finally got fed-up.
last night she was in woods absolutely covered in flies. closer inspection revealed 4 huge (grapefruit size) lumps, 2 on each side of her. in identical places - flanks and lower thigh.
i initially guessed it was an absess caused by the kick, and the pus had settled in a different place.
she is eating normally, still active and weight is fine.
the lumps are quite hard and full, and hot and painful to touch. one of her back legs was a bit wobbly too.
no open wounds. no temperature. being fed harbro sow rolls and free range on 15 acres.
we had the vet out today. he lanced the lumps and they are full of fluid not pus, so not absess. vet decided it wasnt related to the kick by the pony. not erisipilus. they are in exact spots of her lymph nodes so that indicates a foreign body attack of some sort. possibly from skin contact of a poisonous plant. vet ruled out ragwort and nettles, he ruled out being in contact from rats pee. ruled out wasp stings and mastitus. so basically he didnt know what the lumps were but said the body was reacting to something by swelling up.
as she had access to pond and the GOS dont, maybe the reeds or something is poisonous?? the woods are mixed broadleaf/ spruce with nettles, docks and grass etc she has had hair loss but vet doesnt think that is connected.
shes had anti inflammatories and antibiotics etc but vets expects her neck lymph nodes to swell also before she gets better.
...and her voice is fine as she screamed blue murder during her injections. she gets so lary (violent was his wording :o) during injections. so she was held by a calf rope over top jaw while behind a metal gate in corner of the yard, her muscles were so tight it was squirting the injection back out again ...time to invest in a crush i think!
any ideas?
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pond=algae not good for dogs so first check if you have blue /green algae in the pond grass snake bite :farmer:
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Hi PP
could your pig not have been bitten with clegs? my pigs have been bitten several times and had hard lumps. Now DON'T SHOOT ME DOWN HERE, I have treated my pigs with spot on over their backs, I know the box does not have the silhouette for pigs as it has for cattle, sheep but this does work for the pigs. I got in contact with my vet who contacted the makers and they did verify that it can be used for pigs also and the reason the silhouette is not on the box is because they do pig fly treatment at 4 times the cost of the normal spot on. So utilising the cheaper option does not put the pennies in the pockets of the manufacture :pig: :pig:
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Jesus Robert, you must be able to type fast now. ;D ;D
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check if you have blue /green algae in the pond
i wouldnt hav a clue so will have to research that one! shes in different field now to be on safe side. i think she still misses delilah so its sad, the GOS just arent on her wave length at all.
thanx
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could your pig not have been bitten with clegs?
what on earth are clegs?? ??? ::)
shes just bin done with panamec today (i kept the vet busy! lol)
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clegs stick to the skin and feed on blood and are always near where horses are. you may call them a different name but they all do the same, they feed on blood, i hate them when i get bitten, the wee beggers are killed with one hard hit.
Just been told they are called horse flys
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i havnt noticed any horseflies or ticks. she was swamped by hundreds of smallish flies on her lumps. like something out of a horror film! i thought there might have maggots but no. they cud obviously smell the fluid etc
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Tea tree oil is a cracking antiseptic (and it'll keep flies away) you can dab it straight on to her skin providing it's not in an area she's likely to lick. It should also keep flies away too (they don't like the smell)
Other than cleggs/horse flies I can't think of anything that would swell to that extent...... unless she's been stung by a wood wasp ?
Bruce was stung by a clegg a few weeks ago and had a grapefruit sized swelling on his forearm. A bit of tea tree and a dose of reiki did the trick ;)
HTH
Karen x
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i have "wondergel" for the ponies cuts etc and it reeks of tea tree oil so iv used that. today she is lively and eating well. now has 2 more lumps on one side but the other side is the same.
here are some pictures that show her hair loss also. she usually has a very thick beautiful coat. she isnt scratching and has had panamec jab.
maybe she ate poisonous mushrooms? or brushed up against something without the protection of her hair.
??? >:( ???
interestingly, even though our vet practise has a specialist pig vet, she has to have one "pig-free" day after every pig visit, so she couldnt come and look at dorothy or she couldnt have worked today. >:(
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Poor Dorothy :(
It looks hellish (but I suspect that's the remains of purple spray or something) is she bothered by it ? Do the lumps move freely or do they feel stuck ?
I don't know if mushrooms would have that effect on her, maybe someone else will - but pigs aren't usually daft enough to eat stuff they shouldn't.
A recent tip, given to me by a horsey friend (and it's a bit, yuck but it worked for her horse when it had lumps and boils) is to wash the area with urine (the pigs obviously, not yours :o ;)) If you're able to catch some in a bucket it's worth a shot and it certainly wouldn't do any harm.
Reiki is on the way to her too, maybe I live in cloud cuckoo land with my belief in reiki, but it can't hurt :)
Karen x
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I know you said Dorothy been beside the horses but is there any way she may have been bitten with the horse or maybe by another pig? it looks the same as when one of my pigs got bitten by the our wee shetland pony (little pest thankfully we don't have him anymore) sorry pp cant think of anything else at this moment in time but if i do i will get back to you :pig:
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im pretty sure she hasnt been bitten by a pony but was def kicked in neck (we saw it happen). shes the boss over the GOS so they wouldnt dare bite her :o . she has been separated for last 2 days and 2 more lumps have come up over night. the original 4 lumps are completely symmetrical.
what are those giant plants that resemble "cow parsley" but bigger and on single thick stem. they apparently make human skin photosensitive if touched. maybe she brushed against them?
the lumps are hardish/full and u can grab them but not move them. very painful for her just to touch. vet put on p. spray.
my consolation was one vet, in conversation, last year told me to put pigs in these particular woods to tidy it up, i dont think they do much apart from potter and sleep.
well...she not at deaths door, so could be worse :o
thanx xx :farmer: :wave:
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could it be Japanese knot weed, I know that if people brush against it, it does make the skin go lumpy.
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you mean giant hogweed have you got that plant there :farmer:
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whats this SPOT.... is it for dogs?????? can it be used as a preventive measure.
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i dont know the name but can take a picture when the rain stops! it can grow about 5 ft tall. we have the odd bit by the pond. it has lots of tiny white flowers on thick single stems. i dont she would have eaten it but might have brushed past it with her bald skin ( :o)
maybe she went partying whilst i was in wales and no-one has told me...while the cats away...lol
is the hair loss normal? its much worse than last year. we went to a farm park last week in england and their tammie boar was virtually bald too. nice pig..but solid muscle! :o :o
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that is giant hogweed from your description children use the stem as peashooters and get sores round the mouth the plant juice causes this that is a more logical solution as to what has happened rather than bites kicks or whatever
the vet thing it should be 6 days the same as an issolation facility i have come accross this before with commercial pig units
the south americans that i met at the highland would not come to our stand because they were due to vist a commercial pig unit the following week (no contact for 6 days prior to visiting the unit with pigs or facilitys where pigs are kept) :farmer:
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Looks more to me like insect bites. I'm in Caerphilly, south Wales, and this year I've had a huge problem with the giant European horsefly (a big, 2" bugger) sucking the blood of my sows. Like mosquitos, it's the females that feast on the blood in the breeding season. Whacked one with a feed scoop, photographed it, and stuck in on a (very helpful) anoraky entomologists' website for ID.
The wounds and swellings look just the same. I'm using a combination of purple spray to treat the wounds with various insecticides, to keep the flies off. Seems to be working, though the one who is worst affected inevitably scratches and pulls the scabs off, requiring repeat treatment.
All the best
Liz
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I'd agree they look more like bites than anything from brushing up against plants - and they don't look ANYTHING like the giant hogweed blistering I've seen in humans. I'd go along with Tudful Tamworths and your vet. Maybe she was bitten by some water-loving insect down by the pond. Some antihistamine tablets might help but I don't know if you can give them to pigs so I'd check with your vet first.
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A "friend" of mine uses Coopers Spot-On and/or Crovect to keep the flies away (neither licensed for pigs, albeit recommended and prescribed by certain veterinarians under the "cascade" system). Just FYI.
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well im stumped really. so was vet. shes had anti-inflamatories from the vet.
any views on hairloss? normal or not normal?
shes gone from pic 1 to pic 2 in a month.
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Our OSBs have lost their hair too. Hot summer!
Did you ask vet about antihistamines?
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Did you ask vet about antihistamines?
no, i was thinking the anti-inflammatories would do the same thing?
shes happy this morning, pouring with rain again but probly a good thing, give her a good wash down. not much change, im sure there is a new one coming up so that is 5 on one side and 2 on other. but shes ok so thats the main thing. thanx for ur advice everyone! :D ;)
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whats this SPOT.... is it for dogs?????? can it be used as a preventive measure.
This is Coopers spot-on, which is not licensed for pigs in the UK, but is licenced for them in Ireland.
Vet's are permitted to prescribe medicines which are "off-label" or "off-ticket" (ie not licenced for the intended use or not licenced for the particular species), so lill's vet was able to let her use the product under his direction.
Spot-on is not licenced for use on pigs (but is for cattle and sheep) in UK, because under UK legislation the makers have to go through a long series of test to prove safety etc. and this is per species, so despite being approved for sheep and cattle, they would need to re-test for pigs and this along with high licence costs means you have to be sure of a good market before going to the expense. In UK the outdoor pig herd is not large enough and need for this product is obviously not high enough for Coopers (or more accurately Pfizer who make it) to go through the efforts and costs of licencing. In Ireland the licencing regime is less "Defra gold plated", so costs are low enough to make it worth selling.
PS whilst railing about costs, did you know that the "Defra approved" disinfectant that you use, costs the company £17,000 to renew their licence/approval every three years, despite no change in formulation - so £17,000 just to do the paperwork to let them carry on selling it. Sorry when I say "costs the company" I obviously mean "costs you and me" - cos we pay it back to the company. Apparently this helps fund the cost of the administration!!
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Antihistamines are not the same as anti-inflammatories, they may work synergistically. Are the anti-inflammatory drugs steroid based? I have a dog who got lumps like Dorothy's from insect bites and the antihistamines helped a lot. If the anti-inflammatories aren't steroid based it would definitely be worth asking your vet. I used chlorpheniramine (piriton) for the dog and it is used in pigs, see www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Maximum_Residue_Limits_-_Report/2009/11/WC500012072.pdf (http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Maximum_Residue_Limits_-_Report/2009/11/WC500012072.pdf)
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Just come upon this topic as been offline over weekend but just to say sounds like bad reaction to horse-fly bites as its the same as that happens to me, ended up in casualty several times over adverse reactions to the bites now i keep very strong antihistimines handy in case of bites. we also has some piglets affected similarly to what you describe and i crushed up my antihistimines for them in a jam sandwich and it helped no end, so defo speak to your vet about them.
hair loss normal during summer, some of my GOS are positively bald! others are hairy beary! ;D
HTH
Mandy :pig:
Ps i am now scratching like buggery!! at thought of bites
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i mite take a trip to chemist then..... ::) ;D
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The hair loss is absolutely normal - annoyingly so, at this time of the year, for those of us taking bald pigs to shows!
The sooner it comes out, the sooner it will grow back, though.
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those look like insect bites. i have a horse that reacts in exactly the same way to horse fly bites, they are really sore!! i would get some anti histamine, you can get anti histamine cream from the chemist, not sure if it works on pigs though!!! All my GOS are bald as well but totally normal at this time of year. :pig:
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you mention fly bites you can make a homemade recipe pretty easy to make 4 ounces of Avons' Skin So Soft Original Bath Oil
1 cup of vinegar (either white or apple cider vinegar will work)
30 -40 drops of 100% pure citronella essential oil
Fill the bottle the rest of the way up with water
put it into a spray bottle poundland sell them and give it a good shake everytime i find the avon so soft dry lotion keeps flies cleggs away from me this smells nice hope this helps havn't tried it on my pigs but have on my ponies
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Might try it on myself ;-) going camping in a week!