The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: tirdu on February 15, 2009, 09:45:17 am
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Hei there people, just wanting some advice on breed choice. Im thinking on purchasing some gloucester old spot gilts for breeding purposes, but also thinking of getting a few other pigs to kill for pork, as there any particular breeds which are better porkers than other which you advise me to purchase, many thanks.
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Do you particularly want a different meat breed? Gossies make good eating. For (imho) perfect pork GOS x Tamworth .
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not really im buying the 2 GOS gilts for breeding pure, but was just wandering if there is a paticulary excellent breed for just porkers? A freind of ours had a litter of 9 GOS x Tamworths and they where jusy magnificent little pigs. Thanks for the quick rely also :)
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Middle Whites would be the best pork pig with Tamworths the best for bacon. Middle Whites are also in need of some help to keep breed numbers up.
Cheers
Gavin
p.s. not everyone would agree with me..... :D
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Thanks for that gavo, the middle white had actually crossed my mind as a good choice. The tamworth i'm not all that keen on personally. :D
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I would recomend Saddleback for beautiful sweet pork.
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The saddleback is a breed which i love so much, just magnificent to look at, thanks for that nellie greatly appreciated ;D
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Im sorry it is just mind boggling that you people are posting advice on what kind of pigs to eat when you have such cute pictures of pigs as your icons. Its weird and sick that you can look at how cute and sweet they are and see passed it and think about eating them. Its cruel and I joined this sight just to let you know I think you people are really messed up. Pigs are sweet, smart and adorable creatures that just want to be loved not tortures and turned into pork chops for your dinner. There are soooo many things you can eat besides meat and its disgusting for your health and anyone that disagrees is only lying to himself.
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Hello Sabrina
Im sorry it is just mind boggling that you people are posting advice on what kind of pigs to eat when you have such cute pictures of pigs as your icons. Its weird and sick that you can look at how cute and sweet they are and see passed it and think about eating them. Its cruel and I joined this sight just to let you know I think you people are really messed up. Pigs are sweet, smart and adorable creatures that just want to be loved not tortures and turned into pork chops for your dinner.
You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, and to express it here. Personally I think you'd be better directing your energies towards those who factory farm pigs and other animals for meat. Most of us here are meat-eaters, and know that something has to die to satisfy our diets. Our animals are extremely well cared for, with great respect and compassion, and are killed quickly and as painlessly as possible.
I think we're also balanced enough to distinguish between the stero-typical cartoon portrayal of pigs :pig: and the reality of raising them for real, just as we can tell the difference between life at Hogwarts and the reality of school for most children. There's no dichotomy (although maybe we should find a pork chop smiley).
Without people like us keeping them on a small scale for their meat many breeds of pig would disappear completely and we'd be left with over-bred, intensively farmed pigs living in poor conditions. I'm not offering you that choice (it's not yours to make) but perhaps you should think a bit more deeply than how cute pigs are and what a terrible thing it is that we eat them?
There are soooo many things you can eat besides meat and its disgusting for your health and anyone that disagrees is only lying to himself.
A classic bare assertion fallacy. Come back when you're more open-minded and we can have a reasoned, sensible discussion about all this.
Dan
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Can only second Dan's posting as it says it all far better than I could. Except unless you are a vegan arent you being just a tad hypocritical?
HM
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Well said Dan!!
Take a propper look at the facts before condemning people, most people on this site are keeping pigs for the freezer because they don't like the idea of these wonderful Little creatures kept in confinement with no daylight. Our pigs are happy health and live as pigs should, there needs are met in every way. People eat meat that you'll never stop, i just wish that all meat eaters looked at how there dinner ended up on there plate, i know my dinner had the life is should have had! :pig: :chook: :cow: :goat: :horse: :turkey: :&>
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Well said you three, and I would add that there is nothing quite like sitting down to enjoy a meal from an animal that has lived the best life you can afford it; you have had a relationship and memories and it no way resembles the pathetic anonymous slab that can be found in a polystyrene carton on a supermarket shelf having live a life of goodness knows what!
I think I speak for all here when I say that if Sabrina took the time to read the postings on TAS and learn something about the people on here, she would find a community of caring and dedicated people who take pride in the fact that they do the best by their stock and are willing to share experiences and learn from others in a bid to be the best they can be, thus affording their stock the best possible life.
Thank goodness our community lives in a coloured world where we consider the opinions of others and are not too proud to take criticism and accept help.
I think Sabrina could learn a lot about human nature if she got to know us all through our words, and maybe she could walk away from the black and white world in which she surrounds herself, and begin to open her mind to the fact that not all meat eaters are murderers; as likeminded people we are compasionate and dedicated towards our animals, and to that end we all hope that we can make a difference in this world even if it is only in a small way, by others learning from our example.
Our piggy icons bring a smile to our faces as do our real little piggy friends!
Kate :pig:
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Well said Dan, thanks for that ;D
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Its cruel and I joined this sight just to let you know I think you people are really messed up. Pigs are sweet, smart and adorable creatures that just want to be loved not tortures and turned into pork chops for your dinner.
Sabrina, Think like the rest of us here have done, you could do with reading past posts. This one on page 8 may give you an incite as to what us smallholders are trying to achieve and the emotions involved in caring for and producing our own pigs. ("2 Saddleback weaner's coming to virgin pig mother this week end") I think everyone on this site feels the same emotions when it come to the final for our pigs.
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Exactly, same when it comes to slaughtering the lambs. Easier said than done when it comes to the point. You can be a little emotional about it sometimes when they go but its a way o life and living at the end of the day.
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Hello Dan, I never posted anything about keeping and eating pigs, our weaners arrive in April
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So after all that we're agreed that Tamworths are the best!
Gavin
p.s. must go to feed the two "gremlins" - hand reared OSB/Tam piglets who are in hiding outside the backdoor waiting for their bottles to appear....
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Hello Dan, I never posted anything about keeping and eating pigs, our weaner's arrive in April
anirbas123 her names on her email Sabrina Maglaras??
So after all that we're agreed that Tamworths are the best!
I don't know about that it's got to be a saddleback for me! Had a wonderful sow a few years back, best mother ever never a prob with her apart from the fact she thinks she was a dog!! ;D ;D she was also bottle fed. Produced some wonderful young, not tasted anything nicer. :pig: :pig: :pig: :pug:
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Hello Dan, I never posted anything about keeping and eating pigs, our weaners arrive in April
Two Sabrinas, what are the odds?!
Sorry for any confusion, I think we can tell you apart now. :)
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Perhaps we now need a thread for vegetarians ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :chook: :cow: :sheep: :turkey: :&>
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Dan, dan he's our man
if he can't do it,
then no one will (simpsons)
OMNIVORES RULE! :farmer:
DON'T HURT THAT POOR CARROT
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For real pig in luxury we should all demand that Carole posts pictures of Lulu, who can climb stairs, likes the sofa, wears the coffee table like a shell and complains loudly when the fire is not lit.
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oh well, that stirred us up a bit. bless her little cotton socks, she's entitled to her opinion. but she has no clue to how well looked after our piggies are and how big a wrench it is to say farewell to them. Pigs are a vital piece of the smallholders setup. man can not live on only veg, he needs a little meat, better to care for a pig and cherish every morsel than buy a piece of water injected , factory farmed, polystyrene wrapped and anaemic stuff. If it's any use to her I love my veggies and fruit too, but don't get the same relationship back. :pig: :chook: :cow: :sheep: :turkey: :carrot: :apple: :pepper: :blackberry: :brocolli: :corn: :peas: :spud: :squash: :rasp: :P
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Yet another pig here that thinks she's a dog, a foxhound no less !! Mind you she's also happy to be a chicken, or a horse !! Hand reared, with love of course :pig:
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/flipper66/IMG_0406JPGcopy.jpg)
Like most of us I rear my own meat because of my intense feelings towards animal welfare. The care and love invested goes along way towards making that final trip - a trip I never find easy, even after many years. But I'm a meat eater and for me and my family the only way is to take full responsibility, which means giving our livestock a healthy happy life and a quick and stress free death (as possible).
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What a lovely picture, yes HM will post a picture if some kind soul will tell me how to do it.
Carole
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Is that a current picture? There's so much grass!! Nice fence too.
And lovely hens and piggie of course.
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Is that a current picture? There's so much grass!! Nice fence too.
And lovely hens and piggie of course.
Photo taken last summer, sadly my piggy paddock is ankle deep mud at the moment - grass is a distant memory :(
My OH does the fencing, sometimes seems every spare moment is taken up with fencing of one type or another. My teenage daughter often jokes "what are you doing this weekend, fencing for a change ??"
What a lovely picture, yes HM will post a picture if some kind soul will tell me how to do it.
Carole
I upload my pic's to a photobucket account (it's a free image hosting website) then just follow the instructions on posting the IMG code. ;D
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QUOTE FOM ABOVE --
There are soooo many things you can eat besides meat and its disgusting for your health and anyone that disagrees is only lying to himself.
As well as intending to keep pigs in the next week or so I keep bees - I've read on another website from someone who thinks it's cruel to keep bees !!
The reason being that the beekeeper will squash bees when he takes the hive apart and puts it back together. Well that's true bees do get caught, but the beekeeper will try to avoid it if he can by gently lowering the hive parts to give bees time to get out.
So my question to this person would be - just exactly what can people eat?
If I could find the other website again and be bothered to register I would point out to them that without beekeepers bees wouldn't exist in this country.
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I'd like to see a self sufficient vegan get a living in our climate! The protein element of a vegan diet consists largely of Soya (GM) which is imported (food miles?).
I'll stick to what I can watch growing, even if it does grunt! ;)
Dave
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Isnt most soya produced these days also genetically modified?
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I have a friend who's a vegetarian. She's a lovely, non judgemental, woman who is no stranger to throwing a steak in the pan for her husband (He often cooks for her too!). She would readily admit that she needs to take supplements to make up for what nutrients she doesn't get from eating meat. It's her personal choice, and I respect that. She doesn't try and force her ideas on me, and I don't force mine on her. That's the way it should be....in my humble opinion. :farmer:
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As Anirbas 123 admits to signing on here just to state her views on our pig production and has not commented further is it possible she is a troll?
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troll being a better word for guest! Have seen these beasties on other forums and they do untold harm sometimes!
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I am mainly a vegaterian but not a strick one, If i produced my own meat then i would eat it !!! The problem is that some people just see the words 'people eating animals' and they go off on a tangany but they don't stop and look and think, The reason why lots of people are smallholer are for the fact that they don't like the way that some commercial farmers treat their animals.
i wouldn't call these people trolls just missgiven and they could direct their energies towards better things. they should direct the 'bad' energy toward the bad companies and goverment that agree with the bad companies
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Well said, although it would be nice if she were able to have a discussion put her point of view listen to ours, etc. without just coming on for one rave then disappearing.
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Seconded. It's hard to have respect for someone who does a 'hit and run'. :farmer:
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OMG please don't wish her to come back LOL
She needs to go to nursery school remember finger painting waiting LOL
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:-\
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lol do you know what they person has acually put their email address on their profile,
I don't think they have got the hit and run thing down to par !!!!
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I had the kids so i could carry on finger painting!! its so much fun!! as are mud pie, splashing in puddles and our number one favorite is a water fight!! What it is to be a kid!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
People like her make my blood boil, yes she's allowed her oppion but when there is so much cruelty and suffering in the world she would be better using her energy to try and help something that really needs her help. I have allot of friends who are vegetarians or vegans, and spend many a night having decisions on this subject. At the end of the day we are meat eaters and we provide what we eat, taking account for the wellfair of the animals in our care.
Hopefully she gone and chained herself to a tree so we wont be hearing from her again!! :carrot: :apple: :banana: :brocolli: :cherry: :peas: :pear: :cucumber: :spud: :squash: :rasp: :pig: :pig: :pig:
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I've just been to check the pigs. I gave one lad a scratch behind his ears and a back rub. He squeaked with pleasure. Next week I'll take him to slaughter knowing he's had a decent, happy life with plenty to eat, somewhere warm to sleep and space to behave naturally.
The point is that he wouldn't have had that life if we didn't eat meat. He wouldn't have existed.
I'm weary of arguing about the negative effect of vegetarianism and veganism on the environment. Organic farming in the UK would virtually collapse without livestock production and, in time, much of the land would produce less and less until it became a chemical desert - ask any East Anglian wheat baron whether he's getting the same yields as 20 years ago.
Sabrina or whatever her name is a coward taking a pop at us small-timers when, as Dan said, she would be better spending her time campaigning against factory farming.
. . . and, for what it's worth, I'd go for Saddlebacks every time - friendly, easy to handle and delicious (so my customers tell me) - but the truth is there's something to be said for all breeds and I often think we spend too much time agonising over which is best
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If just keeping a couple of pigs for meat the choice is endless, and the delights of comparing each different breed (am beginning to sound like HFW). For breeding its again a matter of choice, I love tamworths, but find them too lively for my advancing years so now stick with the extremely docile Gossies.
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We went off topic just a lot there, so can I go back to the original question.
I went to see some pigs the other week as we're about to buy our first 2. These will be fattened up to bacon weight. Well that's the plan, having spent all this money on an arc, fence and now a bloomin' trailer, I am now presented with the dilemma of which breed because I had settled on Saddlebacks but the lady who has the ones we went to see has just rung me and they are not all sold after all. They are Large Black / Lop Eared crosses.
Any body got any advice and hopefully the topic won't be hijacked by a veggie this time.
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Whatever breed you go for, you have to like what you see. Look at as many breeds as are available in your area if you can. You will see one that particularly appeals.
For taste, personality and beautiful looks and colour you cant beat a tamworth (imho). For bacon tamworths every time, but make sure you have really good fencing.
For ease of handling (again in my opinion) GOS. Although I believe anything with lop ears is easier to handle. (Our Hilary being the exception that proves the rule in case you have read earlier postings).
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Thank you for that, Tamworths do look nice but I'm seriously put off by their love of escapology, as I've read on here. Bit limited on choice in this area and the only ones I've seen so far are the Large Black / Lop crosses. A nearby breeder has the Saddlebacks which we are considering.
I'd like easily handled ones for first time until I get the idea of how to take them from the trailer to the arc area, this is up a fairly steep hill and then back down again when they are much bigger. Also after the first ones I may have some idea as to how strong my fencing is. I'm going for sheep netting on round posts and barbed wire 4" up from the bottom. Netting on the outside of the posts barbed wire on the inside.
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Hi,
I'm no expert having only had tamworth (totally nuts) and saddleback (a BIT calmer) crosses. But I think I'm right in saying that Large Blacks, for all their size, are incredibally docile and easy to handle. They're top of my list for the next pigs I get.
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Large black cross lops sound nice. They should be docile. If you train them from the start to follow a bucket they should move very easily.
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I'm trying to train my Tamworths to a bucket, am I wasting my time hillarysmum?
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no of course not, anyway any time spent with pigs is never time wasted.
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We've always had Tamworths. They've always been "trained" to follow a bucket. Makes loading much easier!
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My dudes and dudettes are just plain crazy! They follow us around, and play chasing with the boys...they are so good natured...i'm very impressed, sold on the little devils now! They have personality with k#just a little hint of mischief...what more could you possibly want!
Morgan :farmer:
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What meat breed of pig did you get in the end Tirdu?
There is a good oxford, sandy and black breeder in cilcennen (sabrina, who in the past has also won prizes for her pigs), we are fattening one up ourselves from her, and a welsh pig from andrew in Llanon (his pigs have won several prices at royal welsh etc).
Personally i really do like the temperment of the adult pigs of the above two breeds, they both fatten up pretty quick yet are still rare breeds, have good mothering skills, and in general are well tempered at farrowing and up until weaning. If you have the right kind of system and feed you can get both to around 60Kg in 24 weeks, and the Welsh well you can get them that big as young as 18 weeks, good little turnover if you have the land.
Whilst another personal favorite is the Large black, lovely docile breed but do take a long time to fully fill out and make a respectable looking bacon pig (wouldnt use this breed for pork personally, its like using a Berkshire for bacon they werent orginally designed for that, however if you crossed the two thats a different matter), unfortunetly the nearest large black breeder is 10 mins away from builth wells.
Are you getting the GOS from John near Abermeurig?
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Well pel i know both sabrina johnson and andrew davies very well. But we've know decided on some GOS and a saddleback. Thanks to all on ther advice. The next piece of advice id like is if all you guys agree or disagree wth my choices, and if so why??
many thanks
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Wonderful choice. For ease of handling and sweet nature GOs every time. I like saddlebacks too, so striking and more controllable than the tammies.
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Gotta say i'm very impressed with the Tamworths. I imight diversify in future years, but the Tammies are here for good!
Morgan :farmer:
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Sorry if that sounded negative towards tamworths, started with tammies and kept them for years. Just getting old and unable to keep up. I think I posted somewhere before how embarrassing it is when the pig that is supposed to be following the bucket grabs the bucket and runs off with it. Vertically challenged wombles do not run well in mud, unlike tamworths.
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Have to say that Oxford Sandy and Blacks are a brilliant first pig. Very docile, good natured and without the tendency toward escapology of the Tamworths. The meat was very sweet and made excellent Parma ham-style hams.
Trying a Berkshire X Iron Age this year. Berkshires make excellent crackling,but I've not tried this cross before.
Jon
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Hello,
We have both OSB's and Tams. We find the Tams whilst more energetic are easier to handle and far more an intelligent pig. The OSB's are a terror for biting (albeit not with malice) either your toes or more painfully on the back of the thigh ! They do produce sturdier piglets though.
Have we all decided that Tams are the best yet ;) ?
Cheers
Gavin
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I think Tirdu has made a good choice. Excelent first pigs. i have had gos and gos x berks, both easy to cope with and have produced excellent pork. have not gone for baconers yet, will try in the future. thats the beauty, theres always next year. Also with the people on this forum theres little no one has tried and tested. :pig:
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For bacon tamworths every time. (Well that was my experience) I use GOS now its not quite the same.
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I think I posted somewhere before how embarrassing it is when the pig that is supposed to be following the bucket grabs the bucket and runs off with it. Vertically challenged wombles do not run well in mud, unlike tamworths.
;D ;D ;D
Mental images HM !
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Mental images HM !
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Ah you know me well then