The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: doganjo on July 03, 2011, 09:53:15 pm
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Our lovely jack russell x bitch is coming into season again and the love of her life - the dachsund who lives down the road is just not up to the job of fathering pups. We are looking for a stud dog with a very good temperament to produce family pets. (Several people have asked for one of her pups. ) We are not particularly worried about breed just needs to be small and very friendly. We have thought about jack russells, poodles, dachsunds - we even tried the skye terrier in the village but she didn't fancy him.
We are near Kirriemuir in Angus so please reply if you want to set up a blind date in the next week or so.
What is she a cross of? What about all the health checks? Have they been done on your bitch? Are you requiring them of your stud? How many homes have you got for the 6 pups she may have?
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sorry to be a bit blunt but please do not breed - just look at your local rescues - or many tears in wales - there are so many unwanted dogs pts everyday - why add to the list?
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sorry to be a bit blunt but please do not breed - just look at your local rescues - or many tears in wales - there are so many unwanted dogs pts everyday - why add to the list?
Basically that is what I was trying to say too.
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I agree with Shep & Doganjo! Isn't it time dg licenes were re-introduced? & compulsory micro-chipping. Perhaps a fee for bitches roughly equivalent to the cost of spaying in the first year and greatly reduced if the bitch is spayed by one year of age. the revenue could be used to help with the upkeep of unwanted dogs in rescue centres.
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that'll be you shot down in flames then!!
what is wrong with a friendly little dog doing what comes naturally and having a litter of 'good homes promised' pups? in my mind, this is far better than the designer puppy farmed type dogs most people seem to want these days!
i have been looking for a wee dog, most of the ones i have seen in rescue centres have been rehomed already even though details are still on the websites, but i have found someone who has x bred puppies, and i am getting one end of july.
btw, i already have 2 rescue dogs here, so not knocking that either. but not everyone is capable of re training a rescue dog, but would be able to start off a puppy. we are all different.
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Wouldn't collecting and administering a dog license scheme be far more expensive than any monies collected - that's why it was abandoned in the first place.
Why shouldn't people breed from their dogs - marigold has obvously thought about it, and around here there are a lot of wee X dogs around. If you know the size and temperament of the parent stock, I would be quite happy to get a x puppy. The majority of cats, sheep, goats, chickens etc are Xes nowadays...
I keep a pedigree wirehaired foxterrier and do not breed from her, had her spayed and she is micro-chipped. I have in the past also re-homed dogs, but for example these are often unsuitable for families with children or older people. Better to get a puppy from a young age and train them to the home.
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completely agree..also sorry if this offends anyone but this is a market place page..things for sale and wanted.not for everyone to pounce and have a go about what someone wants to do because they dont agree with it! if no one bred their dogs non of you would have the ones you share your homes with! :dog:
i agree about health checks etc..micro chipping as all mine are done.but come on folks give it a break! several of you will have seen i have bred a couple of x bred litters but i dont advertise on here anymore its really not worth it when you get this!! everyone is entitled to there opinion dont get me wrong, but cant it be done in the dogs section not on a for sale page????? :-\
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Excuse me all - have some faith that i'm not a complete numpty - I understand all of your concerns and agree - largely.
However this debate is probably better held in Coffee time or in dogs and this space held free so that anyone with a healthy good tempered wee dog in my vicinity can reply without feeling like they're doing a bad thing and are going to get drummed off the forum.
Thanks for your concern and don't worry - it'll be alright
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Hope you find a wee boy for your girl. The rescue centres seem to be full of Staffies not nice wee terrier types. We looked and the only two we saw were gone before we even phoned :(
I know someone with a Fell x terrier in Carnoustie. He's black and has a lovely nature except he's not very good on the recall ;D He is gorgeous though. Actually, now I think about it, he might be "done". Hmm, pity.
Sorry you got a hard time. I'm pretty sure you're not the cause of all the ills of the dog world ;)
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Not everyone wants pedegree and why should they, we all have different likes and dislikes and more often than not, mixed breeds outlive pure bred dogs and have loads of charactor, I see nothing wrong at all, especialy if people want the pups...it is a free world and thats how dogs such as farmers dogs, were bred not so many years ago.
Some years ago we looked every weekend for a small dog at different rescue centers but they all went very quickly and thats nice for them but you tend to get left with big, more powerful dogs so we bought a nice one from a breeder, he was a patterdale/lakeland cross, a very pretty and intellegant dog that got run over sadly. We all are entitled to our views so please, stop being so judgmental, after all, its the people who just let thier dogs roam, pedegree or not, that need telling, not a loving owner!!
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My little chap would love to help but we had his bits off years ago ;D ;D :dog:
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more often than not, mixed breeds outlive pure bred dogs
Sorry, Sandy, but that is far too generalised. For example, a Great Dane average life span is 7, a Brittany average life span is 14, some Great Danes live to only 3, others I know of to 10, I had a Brittany that was 17 when she died, another at 16, and a friend's one died last year at 19 and a half.
There are a lot of such generalisations about health issues on pedigrees which are just not true. I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, (I personaly have no objection to crossbreeds, had I not been given a pure bred Cocker as a child I might have gone down that route) but surely that is what a forum is for - discussing ones opinions with others.
I gave my own opinion (AND that of the Kennel CLub)that ALL relevant health checks should be done on ALL dogs prior to mating - in my breed it is just hip dysplasia, in yours it is HD and eyes - if a Brittany was mated to a Lab then if they weren't low hips scores they could produce offspring with bad hips, and possibly eye problems unless the Lab was checked for eyes. There are a multitude of other hereditary diseases - I never bred my German Wirehaired Pointer bitch because I couldn't find a stud with suitable lines which didn't carry Von Willebrands Disease - it is a killer, and horrendous to watch the degeneration. Of course these checks are not a guarantee totally, but they are the only tool we have and should be used.
It is not the preogative of pure bred dogs to be bred from but it is the duty of ANYONE breeding ANY dogs to ensure that the offspring is as healthy as possible and tehya re WANTED! There are a lot of dogs put down after a week in custody because no-one wants them. Yes, probably staffies, or staffie crosses.
All I did was ask the questions! What is she a cross of? What about all the health checks? Have they been done on your bitch? Are you requiring them of your stud? How many homes have you got for the 6 pups she may have?
What I am saying to Marigold as a breeder is to have a look at the health issues of the breeds in her bitch's parentage, and of any stud do she would like to use, ensure she has homes waiting for puppies - probably not so much of an issue with small dogs. And by no stretch of imagination could she be called a 'numpty' - they are people who go ahead regardless of advice
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Health checks, are they important. Well thats an easy one for me. We bought a German Shepherd puppy and were told parents had good hip scores which were at the fathers house but they would send them onto us. Like idiots we believed the woman as she seem to know all the problems of the breed. Try going through putting a 5 month puppy down with no hip joints, out of the 10 in the litter 8 were put down before their 1st birthday. When I got in touch with the breeder she tried to tell me that the vet was wrong putting our pup down as her bitch did very well on drugs. How did we find out about the other pups. My OH was working in the area and he put up notices in all the local vets. Lizzie, put down age 3 years, reason she became very nasty and wanted to be top dog when Tanya our other Shepherd had that place. She almost bite my granddaughter trying to attack the Jack Russell and later attacked Tanya and left her with 5 very nasty wounds. Also went for me one day when I tried to split them up. Blood every where. She was Staffie crossed with a lab/ lurcher. We only gave her a home as no one wanted her. She came to us as a 7 wk old pup, was very well trained and could be so affectionate but she did have a nasty side that we could not risk re homing her. We have had collie/labs all lovely dogs and lived to a good age without problems but I would say to anyone breeding pups even just for pets, make sure your bitch is the best she can be and in very good health. Only used a stud dog that is also in the best of health and temperament is so important as these dogs have a good chance of being family pets.
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Health checks, are they important. Well thats an easy one for me. We bought a German Shepherd puppy and were told parents had good hip scores which were at the fathers house but they would send them onto us. Like idiots we believed the woman as she seem to know all the problems of the breed. Try going through putting a 5 month puppy down with no hip joints, out of the 10 in the litter 8 were put down before their 1st birthday. When I got in touch with the breeder she tried to tell me that the vet was wrong putting our pup down as her bitch did very well on drugs. How did we find out about the other pups. My OH was working in the area and he put up notices in all the local vets. Lizzie, put down age 3 years, reason she became very nasty and wanted to be top dog when Tanya our other Shepherd had that place. She almost bite my granddaughter trying to attack the Jack Russell and later attacked Tanya and left her with 5 very nasty wounds. Also went for me one day when I tried to split them up. Blood every where. She was Staffie crossed with a lab/ lurcher. We only gave her a home as no one wanted her. She came to us as a 7 wk old pup, was very well trained and could be so affectionate but she did have a nasty side that we could not risk re homing her. We have had collie/labs all lovely dogs and lived to a good age without problems but I would say to anyone breeding pups even just for pets, make sure your bitch is the best she can be and in very good health. Only used a stud dog that is also in the best of health and temperament is so important as these dogs have a good chance of being family pets.
I am so sorry this happened to you, Sabrina. Even experienced breeders can get it wrong too - we bought a red cocker way back, Champion parents, but not closely related, well known breeder. At 18 months she bit me, having given us hell from when she had her first season at 8 months, cocker Rage Stndrome, was put down that day. She was perfectly lovely most of the time then she would just turn. No way we could blame her breeder - discovered five generations back there had been one on her Sire's side, but not reported back to the breeder. Our lady never bred those two again. There is no test for this problem unfortunately, but skilful breeding by the country's top Cocker breeders has pretty well eliminated it, although I would still hesitate at buying a solid Cocker again. At least hips can be tested for and this is a lesson to all of us - if a breeder says something get the paperwork before taking the puppy.
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just a word of warning, i would strongly suggest that you avoid patterdales, fell terriers and working type lakelands if you are breeding pets, they are a very difficult breed. the amount of storys ive heard from lads having to rescue peoples "pet" working terrier types out of drains, fox holes, out from under buildings is staggering, they never truely switch off. the urge to hunt is in them.
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just a word of warning, i would strongly suggest that you avoid patterdales, fell terriers and working type lakelands if you are breeding pets, they are a very difficult breed. the amount of storys ive heard from lads having to rescue peoples "pet" working terrier types out of drains, fox holes, out from under buildings is staggering, they never truely switch off. the urge to hunt is in them.
Thanks for the warning re Patterdales I have been offered a 2 year old dog and read the personality description. - seems like a handful. The people who have asked for pups from us have fallen in love with our bitch and her 'couthy' nature. so pups that hid the personality of a psycho killer would be bad.
Most of the dogs that i have had were rescue dogs. I have only ever bought 2 puppies. Our old dog who is 12 now is a Parson Russell who I got from the breeder because she had a dodgy shoulder joint. As a result she has never had pups. As a youngster - in my 20's i worked for 2 years as a veterinary nurse and saw all sorts of things from Golden retrievers with a rage problem and King Charles spaniels that needed an eye removed because it was hanging out of its socket as a result of over breeding - bulldogs that couldn't give birth naturally and had to have a caesarean, their heads were too big. What a lot of trauma!
Your Brittanys sound gorgeous Doganjo and I'm not casting aspersions about pedigrees in general and i believe that many breeders are much more careful now than they used to be.
I don't feel the need to justify our plan but in case anyone is interested - We are keen to produce puppies for a families we know who want a small dog that is as manageable and as good a family pet as our wee dog. One family in particular are new to dog keeping and being neighbours they want the confidence of knowing the mother.
On a slightly different tack - i agree with the earlier post which suggested that there is a place for x breed family pets that don't have a hefty price tag on them - a reasonable exchange of money to ensure that the commitment is there by the new family and to help pay for all the likely expenses seems like a good idea - but as gorgeous as many pedigree dogs are if someone isn't bothered about a pedigree it seems like a good idea for there to be an alternative.
Thank you all for all of your posts - I'll let you know how we get on. I've been looking for a year - no joy yet
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just a word of warning, i would strongly suggest that you avoid patterdales, fell terriers and working type lakelands if you are breeding pets, they are a very difficult breed. the amount of storys ive heard from lads having to rescue peoples "pet" working terrier types out of drains, fox holes, out from under buildings is staggering, they never truely switch off. the urge to hunt is in them.
Thanks for the warning re Patterdales I have been offered a 2 year old dog and read the personality description. - seems like a handful. The people who have asked for pups from us have fallen in love with our bitch and her 'couthy' nature. so pups that hid the personality of a psycho killer would be bad.
i keep them myself, they need to be worked, ive 2 bitch pups (11wks old) here ive kept out of my litter, most of the time they get on great, they do get into the occasional fight, despite their age they can do real damage to each other, have to kennel them up seperately everytime im out of the house
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just a word of warning, i would strongly suggest that you avoid patterdales, fell terriers and working type lakelands if you are breeding pets, they are a very difficult breed. the amount of storys ive heard from lads having to rescue peoples "pet" working terrier types out of drains, fox holes, out from under buildings is staggering, they never truely switch off. the urge to hunt is in them.
Found that one out, we could not let him off the lead even when we lived miles from anywhere!!! That was his downfall, he ran out as soon as some one came to the door and off like a shot and run over also like a shot, very cute dog that weed every where, chewed things up, dug holes and pulled our Rottie Cross around!!!! Labs are much easier to control!!
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Sorry Marigold - I didn't mean for this thread to "shoot you down in flames", I should maybe have been less blunt ::)
My first impression was that you wanted to breed your bitch and didn't much care what breed the father would be which didn't seem too well thought out! Your later posts have somewhat dispelled this. However it is sad that there are so many terriers and terrier crosses in rescue ( I have just counted 29 needing homes on the Many Tears website - NONE of them staffies or other bull terriers, the majority are Jack Russell crosses.) Unfortunately even when responsible breeders say if there are any problems please bring the pup back - people don't - they just hand them in to the nearest pound, or worse just chuck them out on the street or on the moors if they are in the country. I am not against breeding, certainly not against cross breeds, but I think there has to be a very good reason to breed - not just that there is no reason not to. I wish you luck. :wave:
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Thank you Shep for your generous words. I knew that you were passionate about dog welfare and rightly so.
I guess that the reason why so many of us use this website is because we care about our animals and have an interest in the rights and wrongs of smallholding including breeding. Thanks again and i'll let you all know if anything progresses - I was offered a pug today through a colleague - not what i had in mind at all - i've seen too many with breeding problems. Its all so complicated.
:)
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marigold, if u can get to aberdeenshire, we could offer u a lhaso apso, papered, 6 years old and randy! brought up with kids and all animals and healthy etc
pm me if ur interested
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Hes lovely!!!!!!
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marigold, if u can get to aberdeenshire, we could offer u a lhaso apso, papered, 6 years old and randy! brought up with kids and all animals and healthy etc
pm me if ur interested
Good temperament too, this breed. KC description - He is of an independent nature, and can be quite stubborn and chary of strangers, but he is very loving and affectionate to friends and family. He will happily walk for miles over any terrain and makes a charming and very attractive pet, with his jaunty movement and proud head carriage, all set off by a beautifully plumed tail.
The only recommended tests for Lhaso's is eye testing, Here's the complete list. The first column lists required tests, the second one lists recommended ones.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/1100/abshealthreqs.pdf)
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I'm not going to get into whole debate about breeding cross breeds but I would say that from my observations over the past couple of years that there do seem to be a lot less entire males suitable for breeding around. I am only aware of this as we have a young Jack Russell that we would quite like to pup but haven't found any entire Jack Russell's locally (don't want a KC registered one, just a regular JR).
I might take up BlueDaisy's offer of getting the contact details she knows on the other thread from this in marketplace.
Beth
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I'd definitely support avoiding Patterdale, Fell and Lakeland terriers, whose work/hunting drive is so strong, for pets. Mum and Dad, experienced dog owners, decided to get a Lakeland, who turned out to be an angel with people, including kids, but so lethal with anything furred or feathered he became hard to live with (double doors shut always between him and the other dogs, all his long life ::)) My childhood was punctuated by urgent 'shut the door' shouts and then 'oh no, where's Ruff' :D
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I have kept patterdales for nearly 30 yrs and NEVER had any of those problems, what they need are constant goal posts and an owner that isnt lazy
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THats where I went wrong, he was such a good looking dog but he would tackle ANYTHING!!!!
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I have kept patterdales for nearly 30 yrs and NEVER had any of those problems, what they need are constant goal posts and an owner that isnt lazy
Hello, Darren! welcome to teh forum! Been lurking for a while? What else do you do apart from keeping Patterdales? (I love them, especially the black ones - knew Tommy Addison at Dunalastair Estate who had a working kennel of them in the 80s)
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I knew Frank Buck from up that way and he sent a dog down when he was dying, I only have 1 Patt at the moment and some Border Terriers plus 4 whippets. I am a full time rabbit catcher and pest controller and also do a bit of writing
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what bloodlines the patt you have now? any pics? :wave:
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Morgan is down from Phil Sheps jack who was a son of Lee Martins Chester but much better, and its not really appropriate to put pics of him up, I think I have one some where of him as a yearling give me a sec
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Morgan is down from Phil Sheps jack who was a son of Lee Martins Chester but much better, and its not really appropriate to put pics of him up, I think I have one some where of him as a yearling give me a sec
there you go
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hes a nice strong dog, how old is he in the pic?
ive a rough black bitch here buck/breay with a dash of staff, and a dog out of derry bred out of a dog called sam who was bred by willy cambell (wont put sam dogs owners name online)
dont have any pics on this laptop unfortunately
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11 month old in pic had to get it of old phone onto new phone so I could get it on here lol hes now nearly two but hes been busy and isnt pretty anymore
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Yup a tough little dog, I love um but you need the right sort of home for them, yous Darren and Gem is Ideal, ours used to curl up in bed with me and loved my company and i did his, shame he got run over
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I think most terrier types are full on Sandy and by their nature inquisitive and thats what leads to trouble, i think they need lots of stimulation to keep them out of trouble and firm boundries.Sorry to hear yours got run over
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He was a cross with a patterdale/lakeland and I loved him BUT, we stayed on a farm and he could not be off the lead like the other dogs we have....he was tough and it was a shame he chose to run off when our front door was open...I cried so much when he was killed, he is burried in our garden but he was a handful and our Labs our wonderful, they do what I say ALL the time!!