The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: janeislay on July 02, 2011, 02:27:34 pm
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Is it OK to feed pigs fresh fish ? I know scraps aren't allowed (what a crazy rule) but what about surplus fish ?
The local name for it is "pukey" and it's so abundant that you can't help but catch some whenever you're fishing. I thought if the pigs would eat it, what a good source of protein for them. It's way too bland for humans, and we're fishing for mackerel.
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Is it OK to feed pigs fresh fish ? I know scraps aren't allowed (what a crazy rule) but what about surplus fish ?
The local name for it is "pukey" and it's so abundant that you can't help but catch some whenever you're fishing. I thought if the pigs would eat it, what a good source of protein for them. It's way too bland for humans, and we're fishing for mackerel.
Under EU law, Article 6 1(a) or (b) Regulation 1774/2002 "raw fish" can not be feed to pigs, so its a NO!
All came about with the banning of swill feed to pigs.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that the case. :wave: :wave:
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How very strange - but thank you for the answer, Stevie G.
I can understand "processed" raw fish and swill which can contain all sorts of dangerous things, but fresh fish from the sea ?!!!
I thought we were supposed to be protecting against swine fever and the like. But maybe it's because most fish is factory farmed now. They've probably never heard of wild fish from the Atlantic ::)
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Can you legally feed cooked fish from a tin e.g. sardines or tuna?
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i thot u cud feed fishmeal to pigs aslong as u can store it safely?
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Here's the text which relates to what Stevie G said about raw fish
WHAT IS MEANT BY RAW MEAT AND RAW FISH?
(8) We consider that raw meat and raw fish falls into Article 6. 1(a) or (b) of
Regulation (EC) No 1774/2002, even if, for example, it is coated in a sauce, or
cured as in bacon, as the meat is still raw.
(9) Raw meat and fish includes the following:
a) Raw meat and raw fish that needs to be cooked before eating;
b) Raw sausages;
c) Raw bacon and gammon;
d) Raw meat, poultry, fish and seafood in packs or loose;
e) Raw meat, poultry, fish or seafood items in coating (such as breadcrumbs
or batter) or sauces (such as barbeque, garlic etc.);
f) Raw burgers.
And here's a link to the whole regulation http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/byproducts/documents/ffguidance1774-2002.pdf (http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/byproducts/documents/ffguidance1774-2002.pdf)
It's really important that all of us are making sure we keep up to date with what is and isn't allowed :-\
I think because of the campaigning with the SPKA to get pig classes back one of the main obsticles we're facing is the fear of disease from all the 'commercial' guys who feel we (smallholders/hobby farmers/small scale keepers - whatever we're called ;D) don't do things properly ie. with regard to feeding and disease control. It's the same rules for everyone - whether you've one pig or one hundred - please make sure you're up to speed with all the regulations (for your own sake ;))
HTH
Karen x
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Ah - that's brilliant, thanks. This regulation applies to animal byproducts not for human consumption.
I'll read it through again more thoroughly, but as I thought, it doesn't apply to fish that is fresh caught and for human consumption (if you like saithe !).
I know when we kept food for our seaducks that contained fishmeal, it had to be kept in a separate feed store from our poultry, sheep and horse feeds - and we had to be inspected too.
Don't worry Karen, I'll make sure I'm within the law, as ever, although I often protest !
Jane - Isle of Islay where the fishing is good !
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yes it does. meat of any kind is banned. unless it flies in and you only find the odd chicken feather afterwards. now what about earth worms and slugs. both are meat you could even say a slug is close to a shell fish.
buy a smoker don't waste good fish on a pig. it makes nice fish pies and cakes.
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One of the perceived problems with outside-reared pigs is their access to "free range" meat over which DEFRA has (shock,horror) No Control! Our pigs have eaten wild animals which have got into their pens (myxy rabbits and wounded/dead pheasants, mostly) but I wouldn't tell Animal Health! I'd be worried that outside pig-keeping would be banned!
I have to support Happy Hippy in this: I too think the regulations on what you can feed are daft: an over-reaction to BSE & the last FMD outbreak - BUT - they are the law! If I was a farmer who'd lost their livelihood to Foot & Mouth Disease I'd take a dim view of people who felt the regulations didn't apply to them. Pigs scavenging local wildlife that gets in their pen is one thing. Deliberately feeding our pigs forbidden foods is another,
Go on, try the smoker!
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The smoker is too busy smoking mackerel ;D
Don't worry guys - if it's contaminated with BSE then obviously we won't be feeding it. I shall be checking with the authorities first thing tomorrow ;D
You're all just jealous of our lifestyle :P Honestly, I'm a very law-abiding person 8)
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yes it does. meat of any kind is banned. unless it flies in and you only find the odd chicken feather afterwards. now what about earth worms and slugs. both are meat you could even say a slug is close to a shell fish.
buy a smoker don't waste good fish on a pig. it makes nice fish pies and cakes.
Iam with paul, meat of any kind or its by-products can not be feed to pigs. The earth worm and slug are already there and its not really practicle to dig each and everyone up with a shovel, unless of course you have nothing better to do. ::)
I also agree that its a waste of good fish aswell and there are better options. :wave: :wave:
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Foot & mouth is still vivid in my head from more than 10 years ago. Rules are somewhat arsey at times I know but certain rules are there for damn good reason.
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Just curious but what are these good reasons for the rule about meat fed to pigs?
I too obey the rules and I really don't wish to belittle f&m but I was under the impression pigs had evolved, along with chickens, to be omnivores. I don't remember where i saw it but I think i remember seeing a report that the EU were considering relaxing the rules to allow some form of meat to be used in dried pig feed.
It seems to me that with the massive food price rises recently, along with the continued growth in the world population, the already underfed millions and the Chinese and Indian growing middle class's demand for meat waste from some animals will be reintroduced eventually.
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at the present moment brittain is free from foot and mouth we are in a global economie there for we are open to imports from foot and mouth hot spots meat is the most common source of foot and mouth there for you try to avoid feeding this to pigs
yes there is rumblings of the food waste being fed back to pigs and meat and bone meal being feed to cattle but in strict controled enviroments
now if you are warming to this idea of a zero waste policy go to the far east whare they have pigs in the basement of the hotels eating the waste food and human shite from the toilets if that appeals to you just you get wired in there :( :pig: :farmer:
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I think your last reply is somewhat repulsive and not the point.
The reason pig feed/swill is contaminated with F&M is that it is not heated properly. I am not sure if allowing meat by-products into pig feed is a good idea, as it is the farmers - both big and small, who will have to deal with F&M, and not really the feed producers (who will try and cut corners at any opportunity).... (or the government ministers, but that's a totally different rant).
But I wouldn't really feed fish to pigs in any great quantitiy - doesn't the meat get a fishy taint? Like tainted eggs and fishmeal in chicken pellets?
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I think you're missing the point Anke, feeding fish to pigs is illegal end of story. ???
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just wondering... is cod liver oil ever fed to pigs as it is to ponies?
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just wondering... is cod liver oil ever fed to pigs as it is to ponies?
It would certainly be extremely beneficial to them, wouldn't it ! Good omega 3.
So how do pigs get their essential amino acids if they can't be fed any animal protein ? Eating just carbohydrates must be as bad for pigs as it is for humans ? And of course we are not just what we eat, but what we've fed what we eat ;D
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anke in reply to your post what i wrote is fact repulsive that is your view it does happen
the feed /swill is contaminated with FM before it goes to the swill the government ministers and there advisor's are the ones that allow the changes to legislation that allowed the meat and bone meal industry to change from a BATCH process to a CONTINIOUS FLOW system prior to BSE affecting Britain also a contributing factor was the compulsory eradication of warble fly for two years at the lobbying of the hide industry
now i don't care what you or anybody else thinks or otherwise BUT IF CATTLE ARE TREATED WITH ORGANOPHOSPHATES THEY DIE ARE RENDERED THEN INCLUDED IN CATTLE AND OTHER ANIMAL FEEDS IT WILL AFFECT THE NERVOUS SYSTEM OF THOSE BEING FEED WITH THIS GOVERMENT APPROVED FEED
now with the last outbreak of foot and mouth it was in the country for months before the actual outbreak it was convenient for all concerned to hang it on the door of hendon on the wall
which brings us back to the present legislation that we all have to comply with so all that i have written is relevent to the original post
now back to the repulsive bit dogs eat other animal crap pigs eat other animal crap and in times gone past pigs were the compost converters into protein that we could eat :farmer: :pig: :farmer:
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"So how do pigs get their essential amino acids if they can't be fed any animal protein ? Eating just carbohydrates must be as bad for pigs as it is for humans ? And of course we are not just what we eat, but what we've fed what we eat ;D"
Quite right Jane! Commercially manufactured pig feed has essential amino acids added. Most of the protein in pig feed is from soya. You can feed pigs milk, which will give them extra protein their essential amino acids, although you have to register with DEFRA if you want to do that. Outdoor living pigs will also pick up extra protein from all the worms, grubs, insects etc. they eat.
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"So how do pigs get their essential amino acids if they can't be fed any animal protein ? Eating just carbohydrates must be as bad for pigs as it is for humans ? And of course we are not just what we eat, but what we've fed what we eat ;D"
Quite right Jane! Commercially manufactured pig feed has essential amino acids added. Most of the protein in pig feed is from soya.
Spot on
There are 20 amino acids that pigs need to make pig protein that makes pig muscle, and hense pig meat!
Of these 20, the pig can make 11, which leaves 9 needed in the feed (essential amino acids)
In British feeds, we know which ones are likely to run out from each source feed (eg soya, wheat), and the order they’re likely to run out in.
The first one to run out is Lysine, which is why most feed has it added.
Next, Threonine, and most feed has pure threonine added
Next Methionine, then tryptophan, then valine, then isoleucine. The other three aren’t likely to run out.
In the wild these amino acids would be derived from meat - mostly "dead stuff" that pigs find, but some from worms, and grubs.
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The amino acid stuff is interesting. I must remember to have a good read of the label on the feed bags tomorrow.
Going a fair way off-topic, it is possible to feed a dog an entirely vegetarian diet but you can't do the same for a cat unless you also feed supplements as there's essential amino acids they can otherwise only get from meat.
Amazing the facts you pick up after four decades on the planet :)
Oh and yes, the pork would have a fishy taint. Got this first hand from a crofter who did likewise many years ago.