The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: melodrama on June 19, 2011, 03:44:56 pm

Title: weaners
Post by: melodrama on June 19, 2011, 03:44:56 pm
Hi - I got two weaners yesterday and had asked for and been assured I had received 2 gilts but sods law determines that one is actually male!!!!!  I plan on fattening them up and putting them in the freezer in the latter part of the year - will I have problems because they are not both gilts - don't really want any piglets.  This is our first time and we were so excited to get them that we never thought to double check when we got them as we saw the breeder checking and advising us they were boths gilts.  Please help - any advice appreciated.

Melanie x x
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: robert waddell on June 19, 2011, 04:25:37 pm
all i can say is one you are wrong        if it is a male and intact yes they will mate      depends on the breed kunes start riding at three months old other breeds can be five to six months old before they start and also depends on how long you are going to keep them :farmer:
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: TheCaptain on June 19, 2011, 04:33:26 pm
What breed?  We kept two GOS weaners, male and female, to 7 months and she only had her first heat two weeks before she went to the big pig sty in the sky.  I'm not quite sure what Robert is on, but I don't believe that you are in the wrong here - it is the breeder who obviously wanted to get rid of a boar and has preyed on your inexperience.  If it was me I'd name and shame the breeder on here so we can all avoid in future and I'd demand at least part of your money back.

Every cloud though - the male will be larger when he goes to slaughter so you'll be able to have a mix of joints as the smaller ones are good for some joints and the larger for others - again depending on the breed, our male went for some lovely bacon and massive hams!
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: robert waddell on June 19, 2011, 04:41:51 pm
not on anything captain        they have been misled either intentionaly or otherwise      just because they are a breeder does not mean they are infalable :farmer:
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: southwestpoultry on June 19, 2011, 04:43:43 pm
We agree with the captain, surely if you bought 2 gilts you should have received 2 gilts.
We suspect by your initial post that you did not buy pedigree weaners otherwise the paperwork would be incorrect along with the ear tags (If they are fitted with any).

Just our observations.

Robert & Sarah.
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: lill on June 19, 2011, 04:53:41 pm
I would certainly be getting in contact with the breeder and getting the male exchanged, for afterall you did request 2 females. I as a pedigree breeder for the last 10 years and my reputation relies on my honesty and I can certainly tell the difference between the males and the females, my opinion is this breeder wanted to pap you off with the male and hoped you did not notice till much later. Get in contact with the breeder and get your money back as males are not worth as much as females. :pig: :pig:
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: oaklandspigs on June 19, 2011, 05:10:22 pm
I would certinaly go back to the breeder and arrange a swap - any good breeder should do this, and I would hope that the wrong sex would be entirely unintentional.

We sell both sexes for the same money, and boars do grow faster, but you asked for gilts and that is what you should get !!

Title: Re: weaners
Post by: lisanic on June 19, 2011, 06:32:25 pm
Really feel for you...I know how excited you must have been to be getting your first pigs. I have been breeding pigs now for over a year and cannot see how mistake was made dont need a degree in biology to tell the boys from the girls!!!! In my experience , if you are just fattening up for freezer it is not that big a deal and as has already been said the boar should grow bigger than the gilt giving you lots of lovely meat. However, you are quite within your rights to demand an exchange as you asked for two girls. Dont let this put you off will come across lots of obstacles on the way but end result is well worth it...just had a lovely leg of pork for Fathers Day tea...delicious!! Let us know what you decide to do.
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: melodrama on June 19, 2011, 11:09:12 pm
thank you all so much for the helpful advice.  I am going to contact the breeder tomorrow and explain the situation.  Whilst I don't want to give the boar up, I don't want to risk more little piggies at this stage of my love pig relationship.  We have enough space that we could seperate them if we needed to.  Just not sure what age they reached sexual maturity.  It is saddlebacks that we have btw.  Would they be unhappy if they were separated and living beside one another but alone?????

P.S. Robert, I know I am new to both pigs and this forum but to tell me that I am wrong when I am immediately seeking to remedy the problem and looking for advice from those more experienced than myself is, in my opinion, a bit mean and unnecessary.  However, I appreciate your input.
Melanie x x
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: robert waddell on June 20, 2011, 08:45:12 am
cant do right for doing wrong        it is blindingly obvious somebody cant tell the diffferance     and to launch straight in and tell a newbie to the forum that they have been done i tried to avoid
i dont do tea and sympathy       never have and never will                     it simply comes down to either a genuine mistake or you were intentional  done         the solution is in your hands           advice yes     but will it tie in with what you see as a solution to your problem
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: Sylvia on June 20, 2011, 08:53:16 am
Would the poor old boar be kept on his own if separated? If you intend them for meat would it matter if you had a replacement gilt? Why do you not want to give the boar up?
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: melodrama on June 20, 2011, 10:09:14 am
Robert, I appreciate that there was a mistake made here and that I am partially responsible for that, that is why I came on the forum to ask advice - and why I thanked you for giving it in your own unique way!  Sylvia - If its at all possible to keep both the pigs that I bought, learn from my mistake and rear them both to the freezer without them mating then I would rather do that than exchange because of all the red tape we would need to go through.  I believed that saddlebacks didn't reach sexual maturity until between 7-9 months and that would potentially not cause a problem.  As I said, I am new to all this and was looking for advice on whether or not it was possible to keep them together until slaughter and then I will learn to check for myself in the future thus avoiding the same problem happening again. If the advice is no - that is not a good idea, get the boar swapped if possible then that is what I will do.  Many thanks again to everyone for your input.

melanie x
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: robert waddell on June 20, 2011, 11:07:26 am
melanie   it is a case of try it and see      there are a lot of factors to be considered         do you want light carcasses or heavy    light =60 kilos heavy=120 kilos    a light weight you have a slim to none chance of mating  the heavy weight there is a greater chance of mating
then you can just keep them to they become active and slaughter then
your feeding the weather and how good they are  have to be taken into consideration (they grow more in warm weather than cold  if outside reared) a well fed pig grows quicker than one that has to forrage :farmer:
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: OhLaLa on June 20, 2011, 11:25:34 am
My twopenneth:

Don't worry yourself with this any more - take the pig back and get it swapped for a female.

Look at the paperwork the pigs came with. Make sure the eartag numbers tie up with the pigs, and then check to see if the paperwork says male or female for the pig concerned. Next check your payment receipt to check it says 2 females.

Then telephone the person who sold them to you and explain (firmly but nicely) what they have done, and say that as you purchased two females you will be going back to swap the male as per the agreed purchase.

Make the appointment straight away.

.....and please let us know how you get on.  :pig:
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: robert waddell on June 20, 2011, 12:31:02 pm
oh la la it is not as straight forward as you have written
first melodramas premises are shut down for 20 days  unless any animal is going to slaughter
second if the first is ignored the sellers premises will be shut down on the boars return
third it has been discussed on other threads that pigs under one year old can be moved without tags and if tags are applied the new owner has to tag them to identify that pig with there holding
fourth   payment receipt       the majority of these transactions are cash without the paper trail
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: melodrama on June 20, 2011, 12:55:01 pm
Robert, you are absolutely right about the shut down, paper trail etc.  We are just going to keep the two we got and make sure that we don't make the same mistake again.  If necessary, we will slaughter at a lighter weight to ensure there are no difficulties.  I can say that it is a mistake I won't make again.  Just goes to show that no matter how much preparation you make and how much info you gather, it can be the simplest of problems that come and bite you in the bum.  Thanks again everyone.
Melanie x
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: OhLaLa on June 20, 2011, 01:00:33 pm
Maybe I didn't make myself clear   ???  I just meant melodrama should ring up the supplier asap (straight away) and make the appointment to get it back - even if they have to wait the 20 days from collection.

PS: Just read melodrama is keeping them. Shame the supplier got away with it!

Title: Re: weaners
Post by: darkbrowneggs on June 20, 2011, 01:23:15 pm
Hi there - I am no "pig expert" but have kept weaners for the house for over 20 years now.  Not every year mind, just when I have eaten my way through the last lot.

Although I now specify whether I want males or females (normally males as I find they are a bit cheaper generally, and grow a bit quicker)  when I started, and before the internet was there to give us so much information I generally bought what was advertised in the local paper, so they were often mixed sexes.

I must say I never had a problem with any of them, though they were mostly traditional breeds.  And they just went off to slaughter when they looked like a nice leg of ham on the trotter  :D , or when I just couldn't stand the trouble of looking after them any longer (Six Iron Age pigs in a muddy pen fenced with electric wire as winter is setting in ...... :o ;D )

I wouldn't worry too much, but if you are into that sort of thing you might be able to get a bit of a refund, or maybe something off the next ones if it was a genuine type of person you were buying from

Enjoy keeping them, and don't fall in love with them too much, I found it very hard when my first two were slaughtered.....

All the best
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: Collie26 on June 20, 2011, 01:27:32 pm
In all the years of my family being in pigs we have never had a problem with keeping litter mates together untill slaughter, non are castrated.

Dont worry it'll be fine, act only if you start seeing mounting
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: TheCaptain on June 20, 2011, 01:43:16 pm
at the end of the day, a newbie has been duped into purchasing something that she shouldn't have.  I've been on the end of similar when I got my sheep and it took me an age to get them sorted - in the furor of getting a new animal it's quite possible to not realise what you're getting until the excitement has died down and you get time to sit and actually have a good old look.

Personally I'd go back to the breeder and get some money back - you've bought something that you didn't want, check your paperwork and report them to DEFRA and animal health if things don't add up if you don't get a satisfactory outcome.  It's a result as you get the best of both worlds and probably won't keep them to breed from (which is what usually happens if you get two gilts as a newbie!!!)
Title: Re: weaners
Post by: white-blazes on June 20, 2011, 03:48:23 pm
When I ordered our first two pigs, I thought I was getting a girl and a boy (never knew this would be a problem at the time) but luckily the man dropped me off two males, and the girl and remaining two males went off to another person known to me.  It was only as time went on I realised it is a 'no-no' because the poor girl was being harassed by the males.  Their slaughter weights were also affected as she weighed 35kg, the boys 40kg, whereas both my boys were 50kg.

I shall definately get same sex again :)