The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Dundonald hens on June 06, 2011, 10:55:59 pm
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As I am new to pig keeping and have only evr had 2 for slaughter could I ask
How much per year per pig
1. Vacination/wormers
2. Feed if on free range rotational ground planted specificaly for pig fodder
3. What would you plant on the above ground
4. The average vet bills for well looked after, well feed, well housed
I was planning on puting the 3 of them in a small plot about 1 acre divided up into smaller areas rotavated and planted out to give them a good feed source for most of the year since i have all the equipment to do this and it seems the cheapest way to feed them ??? and there houses will be handbuilt with traditional stone on the outside,insulated and lined with a washable surface and a dinky slate roof just like minature house,
and before anyone starts babling on about being a skin flint and can I afford vet bills yes I can and do often for all the reast of the beasts we have
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I was planning on puting the 3 of them in a small plot about 1 acre divided up into smaller areas rotavated and planted out to give them a good feed source for most of the year since i have all the equipment to do this and it seems the cheapest way to feed them ???
Whether you're growing for slaughter or keeping pigs to breed with, they all need proper pig food to get the right balance of vitamins, minerals and protien for healthy growth - either a mix of straights (which you will need a licence to mix & feed) or pig nuts/rolls. You can certainly suppliment this with home grown stuff, but it shouldn't replace the basic diet completely, especially in the first year.
Vaccinations/wormers could easily be more than £100 a year - depending on your reigime.
Can't comment on 'average' vets bills either - but with a single call out often costing around £100 by the time they add the meds, it can be very costly if you have a sick pig.
But you've also got to factor in other stuff - the disinfectant footwash and disinfectant for it, needles, syringes, bedding, etc etc etc.
HTH
Karen
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what you are asking is the old indian rope trick (how long is a piece of string)
1 vacination and wormers how long are you keeping your pigs you may be lucky and not need any if the breeder done all them before you purchased them also depends on the health status of the breeders herd
2 it is a myth that pigs dont need hard feeding 3 pigs on an acre will trash it without supplementary feed
3 sweetcorn is idel but what are you going to feed them until it is ready
4 the average vet bills with well looked after pigs owners know what they are doing diddly squat :o
all to often new owners will thing nothing of spending hundreds of pounds on new arks etc then scimp on the cost of the pigs they buy if you have not had pigs before better spending more on the pigs and less on designer des rez at least with straw shelters you can burn them when the notion goes of you :farmer:
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Young piglets/pigs need 1lb of hard feed per day per month age.
An acquaintance of ours feeds veg, grows his own, runs his pigs on the ground in which the feed is sown. (3 acres 7 pigs). He uses a minimum of pig nuts to ensure they have their vitamins. The pigs are not well grown, when he slaughtered the most recent lot, there was not enough fat to make sausages.
The ground is a dust bowl now in June.
Pig feed has evolved as a science, although the costs for commercially produced pig food are high, the finished carcass is well worth the extra expense (imho)
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Proper pig feed ? they Need to be feed ?
What did they do for the thousands of years without us ? did theygrow there own and take it to the mills ? oh thats right there was no mills.
I actualy hoped that there would be someone on here that has the same vision that I do.
That being that I could grow fodder for pigs and give them as little "proper pig feed" as possable and try to get my pigs back to the way they were I have even heard of dare I say it "grass reared pigs" that are not as fat as pigs feed with modern comercial feeds but are aparantly far beetr tasting ??
And of course there would only be some of my spare time,the cost of some seeds etc against the high costs of modern feeds, the enviremental impact on producing, packaging them,transporting them.
How big is your piggys carbon totter ??/
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ive been reading alot about 'old day' pig feeding and way back when alot, if not most of the country folk had a pig that lived on scraps and slop,veg and roots when land had been harvested so i dont see how now suddenly pigs cannot survive without 'farmgate sow n weaner' or 'badminton pig nuts' at £8 plus a pop...surely there must be something these days that can be grown and fed...im sure you get organic pig food so whats in that must have been grown somewhere?? ??? its an interesting one but i would love to here from some 'older' (sorry) farmers that used to rear on food not 'feed'.. :pig: ??? :pig:
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litle miss piggy i would be very intrested to hear anything you have learnt about the more traditional ways of feeding
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In the "old days" left-overs from the house were fed to the pigs, so that way they would get probably a fairly balanced diet if they then ate fresh grass, by-products of cheese-making, fodder crops.
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Quote from mid 1800's
"Most people kept pigs, and made the practise of opening the pig sties every morning and letting the occupants out into the village street each day. There can hardly have been any pretty front gardens. Pigs browsed on grass that grew by the open drain"
The sight of pigs in the streets was a common one.
Pigs were also kept near breweries and distilleries, and fed on the waste from them.
Many 19th centruary villagers collected "washings" - the water food had been cooked in and the dishes subsequently washed up in, and gave it to the pig keepers in return for which they would get some liver or other small part of offal when the pig was killed.
In East Yorkshire a strip of barley was grown on smallholdings to provide additional food.
One of the foods used was potatoes which were cooked for pigs, and mixed with barley meal or peas. Potatoes were grown in allotments and gardens. Neighbours would bring potato peelings.
They were also put into woods during autumn to forage for acorns and beech mast.
Of course most of the above is now illegal :)
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Sadly the traditional way of feeding pigs is now illegal - swill. When I was a small girl, many decades ago, my uncle had pigs which were fed on all the kitchen and garden waste, plus the left over, unpasteurised milk from his two hand milked cows. Everything went in, meat, bread, veg, fishbones, gravy, christmas pudding. All this was collected in an old bath outside, and the pig man came and collected buckets of it every day. The pigs loved it and probably got all the protein they needed which is nowadays provided by pig nuts instead. They also got left over fodder crops and grass as well. So, like it or not, nuts are the only way to adequately feed them their protein and vitamins as the law stands now.
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sadly today we are restricted in what we can do and feed to our pigs that is why it is all bought in feeding
10 years ago we were allowed to feed waste food (brock) this was from schools hotels restaurants etc this practise had been going on for years longer than i can remember (nearly 60 now) how they feed there pigs in Victorian times and before you will need to read some books relating to the subject
if there was a creamery near by they fed skimmed milk and whey
now grass fed pigs is something i would love to see simply because there wont be much grass left when they are finished a hungry pig will root
in Asia they have pigs in the basement of the hotels to convert the humane s**t and left overs
thousands of years ago there were not the variates of pig there is today or the vast quantaties of them :pig:
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Lets say a pig need a tonne of food a year ? just as a easy number so could you not grow
100kg barley
100kg arrots
100kg of apples
100kg carrots
100kg turnips
100kg pumpkin
100kg of corn
300kg grass
I know a pig may not need a tonne but I have jus used this as an example and was looking for infrmatio on what these crops could be to allo food all year and some stored for the realy frosty weather.
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well that is your first problem you need a licence to mix your feed
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I never said I was going to mix it ?? whats wrong with a just giving it to them the way it is ? or let them, dig it up there selfs ?
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if you feed the barley and corn to pigs it has to be milled or rolled or it just comes through them but silly me you knew that already just as you were not going to mix any feed we will all be asking you for advice shortly ;)
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silly me i thought you would let them on to the cereal crops before they had dried out to much to allow them to digest them
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If you let them dig it up themselves how will you know when they have eaten 300 kg of grass, 100 kg of arrots and 100 kg of carrots etc?
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it is a sad fact that the scientists have taken over and the law is costing us all a fortune! its just left us with no choice but to feed nuts..having said that you can use nuts as the main diet and suplement in all the above veg etc...nice for the pigs and a little nicer on the pocket if youve got the room and time to grow it that is!...we feed nuts to our pigs and it costs a fortune,ive had to take on an extra shift at work every other week now just to suplement wages..we have 3 sows,a boar and have 5 raising for meat at the moment and we are spending over £60 a week on nuts alone then theres the goat food,lamb pellets,hay (dont get me started on the price of that!!lol..)oh yes and layers pellets..all in all about £90 + a week on feed :o :-\ :o
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I have even heard of dare I say it "grass reared pigs" that are not as fat as pigs feed with modern comercial feeds but are aparantly far beetr tasting ??
I've not heard of these myself ??? can you give more info please ?
The closest thing imho, to a grass reared pig would be a Kune Kune, but they still need the back-up of around a pound of hard feeding for the first year to promote good, healthy growth and obviously more when there is no nourishment to be had from the grass. To raise two KK's on grass you'd need an acre minimum to give them enough feeding, the addition of plenty of fruit and veg (which you could obviously grow yourself) and you'd need to be prepared for a longer finishing time (8-10 months) and a higher purchase price than your 'average' weaner.
Karen :wave:
PS. Any pig which is outside WILL taste far better than a commercially reared one - but that's to do with the 'enrichment' they get from the soil (think roots, shoots, worms and bugs ;))
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i think the real issue with feeding is land. If you are going to feed root crops etc you need a lot of land. I have 10 sows and 3 boars and not much land, I grow stubble turnips in the pens while the pigs are in the woods but that is just a supplement to their bought in feed. If I had to grow my own I wouldn't be able to keep the number of pigs I do.
Also how do you monitor the quantities they are eating at least with the grain I know what they are getting and how long they will take to slaughter weight, I don't want to have to wait 12 or 18 months just to save a few bob on grain.
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Proper pig feed ? they Need to be feed ?
What did they do for the thousands of years without us ? did theygrow there own and take it to the mills ? oh thats right there was no mills.
Well the sanglier here exist mostly on robbing the farmers crops, and whatever they find naturally roaming over a few hundred acres to exist. Of the 4 or 5 piglets they produce perhaps one will survive to adulthood. The chasse hunt, kill and eat them. The carcass is stringy, with little fat.
Perhaps if you grow your own feed you could share your experiences of the quality and quantity of pork at killing. It will be interesting to contrast the quality of the meat produced, as well as the cost per kilo. Although if I were only interested in producing low cost meat, I would be better buying from the supermarket .
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I have even heard of dare I say it "grass reared pigs" that are not as fat as pigs feed with modern comercial feeds but are aparantly far beetr tasting ??
I have read that some of the Yanks raise their pigs on pasture, and house them in 'pig-loos' - polytunnels to you and I.
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I think you will find it most economical to feed "bought" feed and eke it out with fruit, veg, acorns etc. A hungry pig will also go looking for food and as we all know, once a pig decides to travel you'll have the Devil's own job to stop it and there is nothing more calculated to make bad neighbours!! :o
I had 3 Berkshire sows( but have swopped now to Kune Kune :-*)and despite feeding them expensive feed and crates of fruit and veg. they reduced two acres to plough in no time (and escaped for the hell of it--they were known throughout the neighbourhood)
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You may muse over how previous generations managed to raise their pigs without the luxury of proprietory pig nuts, rolls, etc, but there is no comparison between the kind of carcasses they were getting back all those years ago and the kind of carcasses we, as consumers (or your potential customers) will expect.
Do it your way and let us know how your pigs turn out.
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i think some of the input on here is very valuable, most fodder crops are slow growing and 1 acre whilst a nice plot to rear pigs will not be big enough to grow fodder and rear them.
for every 1LB of meal you replace you will need to feed 10lb of cabbage, 8lb of mangolds or swede or 4lb of potatoes (these will need to be cooked to make them more digestable and remove the risk of solanim poisoning, dont use the cooking water for the pigs though)
so a pig on 5lb of meal a day you will need 20lb potatoes or 50lb cabbage 40lb of mangolds or swede. so 2 pigs will almost eat a sack of potatoes a day 40 sacks to the ton thats alot of potatoes you will need to grow.
i visited a farm with pigs the other week they had 2 pigs (fattners) in a 4 acre paddock (sectioned off into small sections)that had been turned into one big dust bath not a sign of grass and no chance of reseeding in this dry spell.
i like your way of wanting to raise your pigs in the reallity i dont think it can work given the growth rate of the crops will be way too slow to feed the pigs.
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Well I have to say that I am truely shocked at how negative some people on here can be " bah humbug this is how you do it and may god strike you down if you want to change it " folks and im sure you will know who you are lighten up !!!!
Also i am not only intrested in cheap meat I want cheap sustanable meat that I know has had a good life a vision that I am truely shocked that you do not all share.
As for caring about anaimlas I have had horses since I was wee and worked with them all my adult life and the 2 at present come out of the hard winters that we have had ove the past few years and great condition with a lovely coat and a good layer a fat to keep them warm as a matter of fact in better conditon than some horse kept in stables and fed all this procesed horse feed and yip you guesed it they live out with a feild shelter and some halage when the grounds frozen.
Wel its getting dark I better go and give he lambs there egg cup of milk ,the horses there 2 blades of grass and tie the chickens to stakes for the foxes to eat !!!
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Dundonald
Just go and do it your way and see how it goes. The rest of us will do it ours;if you feel that you can do it then go ahead i hope you prove the nay sayers wrong (for the sake of the pigs ),but if you don't then you'll have some miserable pigs.
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Gavo I am planning my rotational planting right now !! and dont worry about the pigs they will be very well looked after
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I'm sure they will be please just keep an eye on condition and supplement their home grown feed when/ if warranted.
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I don't think we are at all negative. Many of us have kept pigs for years, and have seen many different regimes work or fail. You asked for our input we gave it. Horses have evolved to live on grass, pigs are omnivores. I have seen so many people who want to p roduce cheap meat, and I cant think of one case where the pig was a decent size at slaughtering. I would be really pleased if you found a method which worked, and publish it here, I will print it out and take it around to those here who would like to follow your plan.
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Pigs can still have a lovely life, surely, if kept on free range and fed bought in feed. Your's is a lovely thought and if you had a hundred acres or more would certainly work but would you want to turn over a hundred acres to rearing a few pigs?
I hope my pigs are happy with what they have, they certainly seem so. Freedom to root around a field, good grub, fruit and veg. (greengrocers left-overs) and organic pig nuts, a scratch behind the ear, plenty of clean straw to cuddle up in. God, I'm wishing I was one of my pigs ;D
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One things for sure, and it doesn't matter who's opinion is right or wrong, there's no point opening a debate on't internet then spitting your dummy out if some people have a different view of things to the one you wanted to hear.
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Hughesy i can asure you my dummy is still in my god and the toys are still in the pram :yum:
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The problem with keeping pigs as you suggest is the traditional ways of topping up their protein intake, and in particular thier intake of leucine, an amino acid they need to survive, are illegal. Wild boar survive by foraging over a wide area, and by eating small animals (including scavenging roadkill). You can feed pigs very cheaply: grass, waste veg and fruit, etc. but they do need some protein to thrive. I've seen one of our sows kill and eat a mixy rabbit! If they can't get enough protein from scavenging, you will have to give them some: even if you are happy with slow-growing, grass-fed piggies they still need the leucine.
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They could get the amino acid from whey, could they? It is legal to collect whey from a cheesemaker and it's a waste product to them.
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The problem with keeping pigs as you suggest is the traditional ways of topping up their protein intake, and in particular thier intake of leucine, an amino acid they need to survive, are illegal. Wild boar survive by foraging over a wide area, and by eating small animals (including scavenging roadkill). You can feed pigs very cheaply: grass, waste veg and fruit, etc. but they do need some protein to thrive. I've seen one of our sows kill and eat a mixy rabbit! If they can't get enough protein from scavenging, you will have to give them some: even if you are happy with slow-growing, grass-fed piggies they still need the leucine.
Hello Tiva Diva - just twigged who you are ;) ;D
How's the herd doing ?
Take care, Karen x :wave:
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Great thanks - Fiona the mangalitza had 8 piglets 12 days ago - one died (the runt) but all others doing well. How are yours? x
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SallyIntNorth: asked about pigs getting protein from whey
yes, or from milk: we have a friend who keeps goats and we get spare goats milk from her. Other ways of saving feed costs:
Scrounge waste veg from your local greengrocer, and from your friends gardens/allotments/smallholdings (so long as they haven't been in a kitchen)
Breweries and distilleries will sell their draff cheaply.
Club together with other pig-keepers in your area to save money buying in bulk.
We looked at mixing our own pig feed but it wasn't worth it for the size of our herd. We're thinking of planting some field beans for them though.
They don't need a lot of leucine or protein and can do well on good grazing with a little good quality supplement in the summer. They do need more in the winter, though.
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Great thanks - Fiona the mangalitza had 8 piglets 12 days ago - one died (the runt) but all others doing well. How are yours? x
I've sent you a message - too much for a post on here (and don't want to deviate from the post or I'll get my wrists smacked from Dan ;) ;D)