The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Techniques and skills => Topic started by: loosey on May 12, 2011, 04:15:24 pm
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Hi all
I could really do with some help and would appreciate any suggestions. My top field has come out in thousands of buttercups this year. I'd like them sprayed. The field is due to be cut for hay in July (depending on various factors). Do I need a conntractor or can we do it?
I also have a dock problem forming in another field which I need to put a stop to asap. Again, they weren't present last year but a huge thick patch has come up and there are far too many to dig. Will I need a different type of spray for these and does anyone please know how long I will need to keep them free of livestock for?
We moved here last year so are still getting things sorted, but we really need to toally overhaul is ... Lime it, fertilise it etc. They have been harrowed this year but that's as far as it's goe so far.
All of my pasture management knowledge seems to have escaped me, so if anyone can give me some straight forward advice I would be very grateful! :) :bouquet:
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Hi Loosey realy the product you need is Grazon 90 a broad leaved weed killer....If you look under the gardening section there is a thread somewhere on Killing nettles many good posts.
Grazon 90 used at the rate of 60mls per 10 litres of water will do both the docks and creeping buttercup using a sprayer (nap sack)......For docks just make sure they have fully formed leaves to obsorb the spray......Creeping buttercup is the pain of my life. Personally I think its worse than docks as its creeping habit just acts like a carpet chocking the grass out. The trick with buttercup is getting just prior to flowering and during flowering so just about now onwards...... I did all my docks a few weeks ago they are now dead and gone, however the creeping buttercup wasn't affected due to its stage in growth but in another week or so I will sap them.
First year is always hardest and you will have seed growth over future years (Docks) keeping on top of it little by little over the years is the answear, we had 30 acres in our last place and managed to keep it tip top without breaking our backs.
You will need to keep livestock off for 7 days. Your local farm supplies will stock grazon.
Hope this helps good luck
Dave
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you could also get the soil tested for lime deficiency buttercups thrive in lime free soil
if you are using a knapsack sprayer use a colouring agent (so you know what you have sprayed) :farmer:
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Robert could you tell me what colouring agent and where I can get it……What a brilliant idea :)…… When I use a Knapsack sprayer or the wee sprayer that we tow behind a small sit on mower I go off track often and end up spraying areas twice or missing other areas altogether ???
Cheers
Dave
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red food coulouring dye just google food dye and take it from there :farmer:
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Cheers for that great tip :)
Dave
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red food coulouring dye just google food dye and take it from there :farmer:
What a good idea ;D
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Thank you very much everyone!
We do need to lime our fields ... we were due to split the costs with our neighbour who has has 8 acres but he decided to use sand which is not safe for the horses to graze on so we have had to rearrange!
Will the dye just wash off in the rain Robert? What a clever idea! :)
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yes it just washes of in the rain
sand what is the purpose of spreading sand other than to possibly break up clay (which is very fine particles) :farmer:
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I'm not sure, he said he was using it rather than Lime ???
Is there a best time of year to lime you ground? I can't remember what our PH level was but I know that we need to do it!
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The farmers down here have used sand for the fields for years, some have rights to move it from the beaches but this practise has made the soil very deficient in Magnesium
There is a local (Bodmin) supplier of calcified seaweed its very good for slow release and raises your pH slightly.
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Thanks TGM. I'll double check the results of our soil test when I get back home but I'm pretty sure it's depressingly low right now >:(!! :horse:
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You will need to keep livestock off for 7 days. Your local farm supplies will stock grazon.
Hope this helps good luck
Dave
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Do you need a licence for this product? we used pastor for years only to be told we now needed a licence to buy it ???
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You do need a licence now , have to do a spraying coarse. We get our local farmer to do ours now.
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Coley I'm unsure about licence requirements for Grazon 90 despite using it for years and it being readily sold over the counter, everyone I know with land uses it purely because stock only needs to be withheld for 7 days….. Sabrina has mentioned that you do require a licence and this may just be the case.
Next week when I'm in my local farm suppliers I'm going to enquire as I'm now puzzled :-\, and wouldn't like to feel Ive misinformed in my posting. Thanks for pointing it out!
Dave
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should avoid using sprays if possible, its a cop out.
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just looked it up and grazon 90 does need a licence to use
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crop services in fife sell it.
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should avoid using sprays if possible, its a cop out.
Is there an alternative for getting rid of buttercups and docks?
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Just a wee update on Grazon 90. I spoke to my local Feed Merchants who supply me and many others with this product about the licensing……In mid 1990 the law was reviewed and they drew a line that anyone born before 31 December 1964 doesn't require a certificate of competence to spray with the product……Anyone born after this date does require a certificate of competence or be supervised by someone that does hold a certificate..Have to say they were really informative and phoned all the appropriate company's to confirm the information was correct and today I received the Grazon handbook confirming all the above information.
What they did say was that they are legally able to sell to anyone over the age of 16 and it was for the purchaser to then take responsibility spraying….Incidentally they did say how popular the sales of Grazon 90 were and most folk indifferent of age didn't have a licence but then who checks, but then I knew that.
Only posting this info back so others like me can understand the pros and cons and make up their own minds. I know it's a very personal choice using weed control and I understand we all have our own ways but then that's where choice comes in. I will continue to use it I'm now legal by a year ;D ;D
Regarding paddock care I would be interested to know what technique's people use to maintain it without using a product like Grazon 90 so that it provides good quality grazing, and a feed crop?…..Just for reference I do weed the veg plot and garden by hand ;D
Dave
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Cheers Dave, that clears thing up, you would think farm suppliers would get themselved clued up, be up there tommorrow, lost out last year due to being refused and the docks and thistles have made the usual inroads, do you know of a weedkiller specific to ragwort?
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No Problem Coley I was somewhat puzzled myself. Carrs billington my local farm merchant were initially realy concerned they had over looked the issues around selling the product until they got the big boss involved along with the Grazon manufactures, so not just us ay :)..... Ragworts a difficult one unless you keep lifestock off for a few months. Grazon will knock them back and a good percentage will not recover and die.......However during this process according to the information Ive read over the years and my own experiences the dying plant becomes palatable to stock for a good few weeks. Prior to moving here we had enough land to do this safely on the occasions we had ragwort growing as we were able to rest the area treated for several months, not that it requires that time.....We only had to do this for the first 3-4 years after that we were ragwort free for 16 years :)
The same dose will treat the ragwort (60ml per 10 litres water).......No doubt there will be specific weedkillers that deal with ragwort but Ive no idea what they are sorry about that.
Anyhow good luck with the weeds and stuff ;)
Dave
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to add a wee something else to this discussion, i asked about grazon 90 a while back and it has loads and loads of b-a-a-a-d stuff in it :( look for the thread and see what you think.
we have found that putting the sheep on the land makes a huge difference and our once really awful field is about 95% better since the sheep grazed it.
we are just about to move them to their next field to clean it up and move the horses up to their current field - much more organic me thinks :)
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Egglady ... Do your sheep eat dock and buttercups or are they bad for them as they are for horses?
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sheep are considered to be excellent companion grazers for ponies
I am hopefully going to lime this autumn
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No Problem Coley I was somewhat puzzled myself. Carrs billington my local farm merchant were initially realy concerned they had over looked the issues around selling the product until they got the big boss involved along with the Grazon manufactures, so not just us ay :)..... Ragworts a difficult one unless you keep lifestock off for a few months. Grazon will knock them back and a good percentage will not recover and die.......However during this process according to the information Ive read over the years and my own experiences the dying plant becomes palatable to stock for a good few weeks. Prior to moving here we had enough land to do this safely on the occasions we had ragwort growing as we were able to rest the area treated for several months, not that it requires that time.....We only had to do this for the first 3-4 years after that we were ragwort free for 16 years :)
The same dose will treat the ragwort (60ml per 10 litres water).......No doubt there will be specific weedkillers that deal with ragwort but Ive no idea what they are sorry about that.
Anyhow good luck with the weeds and stuff ;)
Dave
Aye Dave, been up to get some and the lady behind the counter still says no, when I explained she got all confused and said I would have to discuss it with the manager who wont be back till Tuesday (this is greens agriculture in Morpeth) will try Carrs tommorrow, which branch do you use? as I can then refer them to it if I get the same response :)
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Coley that's mad ay !….. My local Carrs Billington is Milnathort (Scotland) if you have any problems get them to call Donna or her Boss forget his name at my branch, both of them are very clued up on Grazon 90 especially since my visit…..Let me know how you get on I can easily mail you one if you like ;D
Dave
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Grazon is persistent so if you have horses in a field which has been treated don't use their manure as fertiliser for garden produce cos it carries on killing. OK to put the manure back on the pasture but worrying all the same
It's on the label after a lot of allotment holders had problems. See Warnings under the Directions for Use on http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDAS/dh_0421/0901b8038042127e.pdf?filepath=/uk/pdfs/noreg/011-01510.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc (http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDAS/dh_0421/0901b8038042127e.pdf?filepath=/uk/pdfs/noreg/011-01510.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc)
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That's very interesting and helpful, waterhouse. We had a turnip crop fail followed by a disappointing arable silage crop; the grassy elements grew ok but the peas and other non-grass elements were very poor. Of course we had fertilised the field using our own farmyard manure - and the stock are fed all winter on our own hay and silage, made from fields some of which could well have been treated for nettles and docks.
So we'll have to have a think about how we manage our FYM in future. Sadly we've just spread the last of last winter's muck on the field we are about to plough for turnips and cabbages...
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I'd suggested that we use Grazon ourselves only the other night to OH who vetoed it in triplicate. OH has multiple qualifications as a botanist, ecologist, landscape architect and horse person. I'm just the workforce.
We re-seeded two paddocks in the spring but the monsoon failed and not a blade of grass to be seen. Another paddock is 50% creeping buttercup - hence my proposal - but realistically that with that much weed cover any form of treatment would require re-seeding anyway. We put lots of lime on last autumn to rectify the acid balance as well.