The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: NormandyMary on May 11, 2011, 05:49:28 pm
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Well, today was the day that our little angels went to have their bits seen to a dot be honest, if I'd know what it entailed, I'd have thought twice about having it done. To see them trussed up in sticky bandage to stop them moving, was upsetting in itself, its when they did their most crying. They then had injection after injection, to put them to sleep, andtibiotic and another one, they were like little pincushions. Billy was done first, and once asleep, he was perfectly well behaved. However, when it came to Toby's turn, he made such a noise it was awful. The injections were done, the deed was done, he should have woken up. He didnt.The vet gave him another injection, still asleep. At this time I was beginning to panic as Billy had been up and about straight away. I think in total, Toby had another 3 jabs of different drugs to try and wake him. Finally after about half an hour, we were able to get him on his feet. Actually, we brought BIlly over to him, and his nudges to his brother seemed to help.I dont mind telling you, I cried with joy. To see my little boy lying there with his tongue hanging out of his mouth was so distressing. Once he was awake, we had to walk him around for a good while then the vet checked him again. I had to sit in the back of the car so that I could watch them the whole journey home.
We now have them recovering in our porch, Ive just been able to give them some water, they are not to eat until tomorrow, but all they are doing is bleating and Im sure its because they are hungry. They havent drunk the water, even though they have been weeing a lot!
I feel so awful that Ive put my boys through that. I had to help the vet, so I was totally aware of what he was doing. Bloomin awful. I never believed that such little boys could have such huge testicles!!! They will be going hime to their house a bit later, when Ive cleared it of hay, otherwise their belating would keep us awake all night!
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Poor you. I can imagine it was traumatic. Here's to a speedy recovery.
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Good grief - is it always that bad?
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I'm sorry you had such a bad afternoon. Console yourself with the fact that you did have the vet do it and they didn't feel anything as a result :-*
Goat kids crying is a very hard noise to listen too - too close to humans I think, it triggers that response in us.
You will be traumatised and all they'll be thinking is 'I'm thirsty and could do with a snack' :-*
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how old are they now Mary?
Doganjo - no it isn't!
If you have them ringed (like lambs) at a few days old, they just "drop off" - if they are being disbudded (having the horn buds cauterised) the vet will ring while the kid is knocked out... but if not (and in my experience most pygmies stay horned) then you just "elastorate" the rings on.
Depends as well on the size of the goat... and of his bits!
Hope the littl'uns recover quickly :)
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Oh dear Mary, not a good day for you at all. They will have forgotten about it sooner than you will but the worst is now over
Having read that, I will definately get any boys born next spring ringed!!
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Trouble is, when you get them from someone already a few months old, you dont really have a choice. Still, I think the boys are still talking to me, and tomorrow, they will get some branches from their favourite bush as a treat. There havent been any after problems, like bleeding which the vet asked us to look out for, so he did a good job.
I think I just wish that I hadnt been there to see it. Although I didnt watch the deed being done, (I was up at the head end)seeing the testicles lying on the surgical mat was just too much information. The vet joked with my OH and told him he was next, then he asked if we wanted to take the removed bits home!!!
Im slowly de-stressing now so I should be OK tomorrow. Oh the joys of owning animals. Still, you have to take the rough with the smooth in life dont you?!
By the way, Ill pass on all your good wishes to the boys when I let them out tomorrow morning!
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it was definitely the right thing to do, you do not want to have two VERY smelly boys in a few months time. They will also stay much more affectionate when they are wethers.
If they are pygmies it may be very difficult to get the rings on them at the 7 day maximum, so the vet at a few months old may be your safer option (if they stay horned).
I find disbudding usually very stressful, its the smell that's worst. But again they are soon up and ricochet-ing off the walls - all they need is a skateboard!
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The vet obviously castrated them surgically, and they would have had a pain killer, but all the same it would be traumatic for them. Goats are not good with pain, and there is always some bleating!! One of my billies was a stud billy, and not castrated until he was quite old, but he was on his feet and fine pretty much instantly. Perhaps the vet gave the kids too much sedation? I am sure they will feel much better tomorrow.
I have to say, having pygmy goats, I find it physically impossible to ring them within the 7 days of birth.......we do it as soon as possible, and have never had a problem with the goats being in pain etc. I prefer the ring method to the surgical castration, but obviously in your case, you did not have ths option.
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Goats are not good with anaesthetic, but sounds as if your Vet gave too much.... you were lucky the 2nd one is alive. Gassing is much preferred with kids , ... many kids die from injection 'knock out'. The reason being, they go too deep and the heart stops.
I have surgical castration done, normally, when they are disbudded. At least this way, you know everything is removed.... but your boys were a little older, I think.
Rubber ringing is excellent is you are sure.. absolutely certain !.. that both testicles are trapped. It is possible to make a mistake with goats and you end up with an uncastrated male.
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I am not good at doing the rubber ring method and took the decision to have my male kids and any future male kids done at the vet - the first time I was surprised to be in there (not like dropping the cat off) but I was pleasantly surprised at how well things went, the boys were dopey but not unconscious which the vet said was safer, one little cry but that was it considering what was going on - and tagged at the same time and although the vet is only 10mins from home, they were back to their usual selves once home. I consider myself very lucky to have a vet that I 100% trust with the goat.
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That's a really reassuring post Brucklay, thank you :) As I have NO chance of hubby being part of castration of any method I need to feel OK with all of this and that has helped a lot. (hubby I should add will do all things that I need help with but when it comes to 'boy bits' he squirms!)
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I'm not surprised - my OH will do most things but for both of us when it comes to things that cause pain we're completely useless. I have 3 boys to take next week and I hope it goes as well as last year - they are 10 weeks old the same as the boys last year and there's plenty to see, they're in good shape so I'm hoping for a good outcome and as someone else said then I know for sure they are done. They can then go to their new home in a couple of week once I am sure things have healed up ok.
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Phew, that doesn't sound like much fun for anyone :(
We had a 5 / 6 month lamb castrated - he was supposed to go in the freezer but I decided to keep him as a tup companion. We took him to the vet's in the back of the car, Dan held him on his back and the vet only used a local anaesthetic. It was over in minutes, vet went for a cup of tea and we brought Dickie home. In a few hours he was obviously uncomfortable, but by evening he was absolutely fine.
Hope Toby and Billy are all recovered now though. :goat: :goat:
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Hi everyone. I'd love to say that the boys were back to normal, but unfortunately, its a bit too quiet in the goat house for my liking! To add insult to injury, Billy was limping this morning, a slight problem with his front left leg. Whether it was the trussing up that did it I dont know. Its not stopping him from getting around though, so Ill just keep my eye on him for a couple of days and see how things pan out.
They havent really made a sound today, they still seem to be a bit dopey, though perhaps its just because they are still a bit sore. Im impatient at the best of times, but I really just want my cheeky little boys back!!! Their eyes look bright enough, and they are very alert, just not active.
I dont think Ive quite got over the shock yet either to be honest, we were supposed to do some more renovation work this afternoon, but we couldnt concentrate, so I told my hubby we'd have the afternoon off. We fell asleep in front of the telly. Our favourite programme NCIS was on too, so we must have been exhausted!
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Typical of the way things are done nowadays.If they had proper farm vets that got on with the job and people weren't so squeamish it would be much better for them.
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My vet is a farm vet - German and did most of her training with goats - why oh why would I attempt things myself if I was unsure, than trust the sure hands of Kirsten - she's fantastic - I realise it's her job and she's very good at it, and I realise my limitations. At the end of the day to me it's the welfare of the goats that counts - maybe you weren't criticising but... A breeder I know with over 15 years experience had to take 3 if not more of her boys to the vet last year after the band ended up not capturing one testicle so in my mind I'd rather them go to the vet first time around .....but that just me :) :)
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Our vets practice is quite large and is divided into 2 sections, domestic and farm animals. The vet who did the boys was from the farm side of the practice and as we live in very rural France, Im sure he would have dealt with many goats in the past.
As Billy was okay after his op, I think it was just bad luck that Toby had a problem. After all, lets face it, humans all react differently to drugs dont they?
Anyway, Ive just put them to bed and they did seem a bit perkier.
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I lived in France and my vet was great. Most French vets don't seem to have a clue about goats (my friends and I never found one!) but my vet just gave a local injection, did the deed and that was that. The lad limped a little for the rest of the day but the next day was jumping about as usual. My vet didn't know much about goats, but certainly knew her job for castration, I've never heard of kids being anaesthatised completely like that!
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The boys are back to normal, except for one thing. They just do NOT like me anymore. They are okay if I have branches of their favourite bush in my hand to give them, but everytime I go to stroke Toby (the most tame one) he backs away. They then devour all the leaves and go into their house. Ive sat inside their pen with them for ages just talking to them but they wont come near me. They'll let my husband stroke them, just not me. Are they renowned for having good memories?
Just read your post again jinglejoys. I dont think Im unusually squeamish. Only last year, after my cockeral Monty was attacked by a fox, maggots infested a wound that I was unaware of and I had to spend an afternoon with a pair of tweezers picking them out of his neck..over 50 to my recollection. I absolutely detest maggots. Shortly after that, he contracted bumblefoot, a particularly nasty case. It was my job to bathe his foot everyday, sometimes twice a day, cut into his foot where it was swollen, and squeeze the pus out, then dress it. Then give him oral antibiotics. I know of many who said that they couldnt have done either of those things, I just had to get on with it. I was not prepared for what I was about to see on Wednesday, I thought I was leaving my boys at the vets to be done later that afternoon. I had no idea that I was to assist the vet to hold their heads etc. If I had been aware of what the proceedure involved, Im sure I would have coped better. I feel a tad hurt as perhaps you feel I shouldnt be keeping goats If I got upset at my boys plight.
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I think you were very brave to stay Mary, and I'd have felt exactly the same as you did. I'm not convinced that goats or any other animals would bear grudges - after all they don't have logic do they, they couldn't blame you for what has happened to them. I suspect they still feel a little under the weather and will be back to their usual relationship with you soon.
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I agree with Annie, NormandyMary - goats don't bear grudges they probably just need a bit more time to recover. When we feel poorly we need space sometimes and as prey animals goats sometimes try to cover up how they are feeling (ie. they don't tell us they are ill till the last minute as they feel vulnerable) so maybe they are remianing aloof to try and cover themselves.
Reggie took a while to be my friend again after we tagged their ears (and the stupid tag gun got stuck!! it was horrible!) but I bribed him back into my affections with rich tea biscuits. He practically sits on my lap now while I'm milking savannah the soppy boy!
I'm sure jingle joys didn't mean to hurt your feelings, perhaps she was referring to our mention of boys being squeamish about seeing male animals neutered :)
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Having said all that, Hester, my German Wirehair who died last week, completely ignored me or any command I gave her for three months after John died - so perhaps dogs are a little different .......................... ::) ;) ;D