The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: otto on May 10, 2011, 11:11:00 am
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Last year my piggies got worms around the time we had to send them off. As a result, after treatment they were "withdrawn" for 4 weeks, just as the cold weather set in. It meant they got a lot fatter than planned.
What preventative treatments can anyone recommend for the new lot I hope to have in the next few days? (GOS or Tamworths) ???
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Make sure they're already wormed with a jab when you buy them (a good breeder will do this for you) and this will/should see them right thro to slaughter, also try not to put them on the same land as the last lot if possible, we rotate our paddocks they need a good 6 months rest over the winter a year is even better.
Worms can live for a long time and it might be you need to get a worm count from your soil. SFS on here sells kits i think.
HTH
mandy :pig:
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Hi,
Just to clarify...
The worm counts are not from the soil, they are from a sample of droppings sent to the lab, who then count the number of eggs per gramme (epg) of sample material - this will give you an indication of requirements to worm or not and is far cheaper and much better practice than "Blanket worming" if you dont actually have a worm burdon.
The test (for pigs) identifies the presence (or otherwise) of the following worms:
- Trichuris suis
Stronyloides
Metastrongylus elongatus
physocephalus sexalatus
Macracanthorhynchus hirudinaceus
Ascaris suum
Globocephalus urosubulatus
Hyostrongylus rubidus
Hyostrongylus rubidus
Oesophagostomum dentatum
Oesophagostomum dentatum
Stephanurus dentatus
Trichinella spiralis
To date, the most common worm results we are seeing in pigs are high counts of Threadworm and Tapeworm
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As Mandy says, a good breeder should. worm them for you before you get them. Personally, I worm weaners with Panacur pellets, mixed in with the feed, and I also give the buyer another dose for each piglet to take home with them, just in case. This is because the downside with pelleted wormer is that you can't know for sure that each piglet has had the right amount.
However, as all my sows are vaccinated for internal and external parasites before farrowing, their piglets get some immunity, too.
If your weaners are wormed before you get them, you shouldn't have to do them again if you are only raising them for meat. If, later on, you decide to get into breeding, you should consider vaccinating your breeding stock with something like Dectomax (which I use) or Ivomec or something similar.
Hope this helps. Glad to see you've enjoyed keeping pigs so much that you're taking on a second batch!
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Hi,
as all my sows are vaccinated for internal and external parasites before farrowing, their piglets get some immunity, too.
Im sorry but there is no such thing as "immunity" from worms, the wormer is effective for the time it is active in the animals system and only that time.
If for example you worm one week, then move the animals to an area infected by Threadworms (which can live in the soil for upto five years) a week or two later then the worm burdon starts to build up again - this is especially common in outdoor pigs.
The only way to be sure is to schedule in regular worm counts (via your vet or another source) and have a robust rotation policy.
I dont think it is safe to assume that if they are wormed at weaning that they will remain clear until slaughter time.
When we started doing worm counts we gave away a couple of free tests to forum members - and I think it fair to say the owners were very surprised with the results!
Thanks
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What I meant to say was that, as the sows are vaccinated and are therefore not carrying worms, the piglets are born without them. Sorry for not being clearer. I worm at weaning in case they have picked up anything from the ground.
I agree that regular worm counts are a good idea. I also rotate my stock on a regular basis. All good practice.
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Hi TT,
Thanks for the clarification of what you meant.
Whilst worm counts are a good idea (and mandatory for several commercial schemes) I have this suspicion that the vast majority of smallholders dont bother or are not aware that they exist.
Surely it makes good sense to spend £10 or so on a worm count rather than £20 - £ ??? on wormers that may not be necessary.
The results we see vary dramatically - from several with no worms at all to some with more worms than a fishermans convention!
Thanks
Thanks
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Having just run through my herd health plan with the vet I would echo the point about worm counts - no point treating for something that's not there (that's how immunity starts to build up)
But check with the breeder you buy them from, as Mandy, good breeders will have wormed them at weaning ;) and that should see them through til slaughter @ around 6 months.
HTH
Karen :wave:
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One of mine was rubbing her bum so have used panacur granules, (they are five months old) which have cleared out the worms, yuck didn't realise how large they could be. (The breeder had been using the herbal wormers) I have the vet coming today to show me how and where to inject, should be fun!
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it can be alarming the first viewing of worms(it was some others pig)
a general question here if the worms are in the dung and then the soil wild birds eating the worms or poultry for that matter would they not pass on the worms in there droppings and also be infected? :chook: :&> :pig:
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Quite possible if the particular species of worm can survive inside the other animal type.
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It would depend on the species of the worm, what intermediate or paratenic host it needed to complete it's life cycle etc or if it is direct from one host to another.
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Thanks for all that good advice. I am hoping that the very cold snap we had this winter might have finished off any of the buggers hanging out in the soil.
Have fun injecting!!! I was glad no one was around with a video camera when I did my lot!!!
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The vet couldn't find us yesterday!! satnav not working, so we have rearranged for Friday. Spent 18years as a veterinary nurse so not unfamiliar with injecting animals but have no experience with farm/large animals. Just need to know where. I hear that pigs are not the easiest! up for a challenge.
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With most wormers its a subcutaneous injection just under the skin done in the neck behind the ear as opposed to intra muscular in the backside!
HTh
Mandy :pig:
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Thanks for the info Mandy so up by the bite end!
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Easier if held between a gate and a wall, or restrained using a pig-holder.
Thanks
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Vet came to give wormer. Nellie the little bossy pig just ate her banana no reaction. Ollie another story not impressed at all lots of noise and tried to get away! injected at second attempt. Then when the vet offered her some fruit lots of verbal and tried to bite him!
At least i know where to inject now but will probably try hind leg and a smaller needle when it's my turn to do them!
Fowgill farm injection was i/m behind ear, which I guess would be very sensitive, as they are not going for meat I will try hind leg.
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Easier if held between a gate and a wall, or restrained using a pig-holder.
Thanks
Much easier if it's a Kune that loves it's tummy tickles ;) ;D
Seriously though SfS - re the tests - what is the best way to test the burden - from one pig in the herd or a collection of them all?
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Hi,
That is a good question.
Testing each animal individually would obviously give the best results - but would be more expensive.
Testing a well mixed-up sample of droppings from the herd would tend to average the result, but would still give an indication of if worms were present and what type. eg. Pig one has an epg of 1000 and pig 2 has an epg of 100 then the result would probably show an epg of 550.
Testing an individual animal at random from the herd could aldo be done - but this may give a false low count or a false high count depending which pig you chose.
Thanks
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Hi
Found the info re worming really helpful thanks.
Can anyone advise where is best to order from and how much I should expect to pay.. I am new to pig keeping and just got my first pigs over the last week ... it is brilliant. I have four weaners between 10 and 11 weeks old. I bought them in pairs and both breeders said they had been wormed but I think my little gilt has worms as her tummy seems bigger than the others - they are all eating well.
They are in a new grassy field so not on a site previously used by other pigs. Would it be helpful to just worm them now to be on the safe side is there any way of telling if worms are present other than the bigger tummy?
Thanks
Amanda
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Hi Amanda,
If you get a worm count kit, shown here https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/worm-count-kit-p-2242.html (https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/worm-count-kit-p-2242.html) and get a poo sample from the one with the bigger tummy it will confirm if she does have worms or is just a greedy little piggy ;) ;D They only cost £10 and it saves you worming if they don't need it. I buy most of my meds from vetmedsdirect.co.uk and find them good for price & service - but it's injectable wormers I use mostly. Supplies for Smallholders (and lots of other places) do an oral wormer to save the hassle of injecting - but as I said, best to do the count first ;)
Hope that helps,
Karen x
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I have just had mine injected by the vet. We had seen roundworms they are like gardenworms but white to look at. Ours were wormed with Vermx b4 when we got them but this is not a true wormer.
I did get some Panacure puppy wormer granules from the vet when we first got them which is a lot easier just given in a jam sandwich! but you do need to have the animals weight.
There is a way of working out the weight by
measuring in inches from between the ears to base of tail times this by the measurement around the chest underarm up around shoulder then divide by 12
This should give you a rough idea of weight.
But as HH says you could do a worm count to ascertain if it is necessary to worm them
HTH
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At least i know where to inject now but will probably try hind leg and a smaller needle when it's my turn to do them!
Slapshot is billiant at making jabbing easy
http://www.farmandcountrysupplies.co.uk/slapshot-vaccinator-needle-not-included.ir?cName=farm-smallholding-medical-healthcare-medicines-needles-drenchers-pour-on-applicators (http://www.farmandcountrysupplies.co.uk/slapshot-vaccinator-needle-not-included.ir?cName=farm-smallholding-medical-healthcare-medicines-needles-drenchers-pour-on-applicators)
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Still need a suit of armour to inject Hilary :-[
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Bless her wouldn't expect any less of her :D
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I agree with oaklandspigs that the Slapshot is brilliant. I just can't understand why more smallholding suppliers don't sell it. As far as I know, it's just the one he linked to. Definitely worth the £20 or so.
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Anybody tried doing their own faecal counts? (sorry if you're reading this with your breakfast!)
I found a link http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm (http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm) and was thinking of giving it a try. The reason I like the sound of it is I could do many test and actually work out if natural holistic remedies ::) like garlic and black walnuts actually work. I've never had the guts (no pun intended) to give up chemicals completely but if I could monitor worm counts regularly and for free I might have a little experiment.
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Hi,
I dont think you would have a problem doing a count manually, but the problems may lay in :
1) correctly identifying the type of eggs (species of worm) - there are lots for pigs!
2) Having equipment accurate enough to provide accurate results - ie. to give an epg (Eggs Per Gramme) reading you dont count all the eggs in 1 g of material, you count in a tiny fraction and then extrapolate to get the answer.
Getting the results wrong could lead you not to worm if required or worm if not required, and the difference in numbers is small. eg for threadworm a low count is <100epg where a high count is >300epg.
Thanks