The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Horses, ponies, donkeys & mules => Topic started by: urban farmer on April 29, 2011, 12:14:43 pm
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We are in the process of trying to buy a house which has an acre of paddock adjoining it bought from the neighbouring farmer. The current owners have kept sheep on it but we would like to graze our horse on it and erect a stable. I am aware that the land has an "agricultural holding number" on it - does anyone know if we would need to apply for a change of land use please and how we would go about it??
any help very gratfeully received
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Just don't tell them - you may want to have other animals at a later date, and there are so many more planning regulations for horse related developments.
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Yes you need change of use to graze a horse on agri land and you can't put a stable on without it. You cam try to put up a field shelter but that will very probably attract attention I'm afraid. Thing is you need to decide if you want to go for it and see what happens or do it up front. We chanced pur arm but got snitched on by nosy neighbour so had to apply.. It took 2 years of hassle but we did get it.
HTH
Helen
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depends what base you have also and if its a temp stable as i have seen a few people put hardcore down as a compact base then in the summer mover the the shelter/stable around field as a movable shelter so look for the loopholes and make sure its not a permanent structure to need planning permission
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I put hardcore down With a moveable shelter but different councils react differently and I got grief. A field shelter isn't meant to need Planning but lots of councils are difficult about them . Even with a field shelter only if grazing horses you have to change the use. Crazy but true.
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You dont need a change of use to let a horse graze a field.
You will need permission to erect a permanent stable - but not a moveable shelter.
I have been told by mates that if its for the health of an animal - ie it has laminitas or something that you can erect a shelter for the health and wellbeing of your horse. - rememebr you can be jailed for letting an animal die - but not for planning requirements so the one overrides the other.
In essence its all a minefield - put stable up on skids, see if anyone complains and sort it out later. The moment you get the council involved you have another 30 people who also dont know what the law is.
Baz
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Baz I can assure you I was required to change the use from agricultural land to equestrian use in order to graze the horses on it. Regardless of stables I had to do this, NWLeicester Council insisted.
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Baz I can assure you I was required to change the use from agricultural land to equestrian use in order to graze the horses on it. Regardless of stables I had to do this, NWLeicester Council insisted.
Did you ask them first, Helen, or did you go ahead and was reported?
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I went ahead and was reported Annie. I was advised by the council unless I could prove the horses were agricultural animals ie used for ploughing etc. Then I had to change the use. It's totally crazy but that's the rules..
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I've been holding off posting in this one ... but .... speaking as a farmer ... :farmer: it is galling to see good agricultural land go out of production. It is galling to see farms getting broken up and sold off in lots; one always admires farmers who won't take this route but you can completely understand why others do take the land agent's advice. And you can't blame the people who bought the house-plus-10-acres for wanting to keep horses on it. Or those who bought the barn-plus-3-acres for wanting to make a garden out of some of it. Nor yet the people who bought 20 bare acres for trying to get pp for a small home so they can make a go of a smallholding. And then a shed, and a garden ...
But in parts of the country it is now not practical to farm. I worry that we will lose too much of our productive ground and should we ever need to be more self-sufficient as a nation (which I do believe will happen) it is a worry that we simply won't be able to muster the land to do it.
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I hear you Sally. I am trying to grow veg and raise pigs too so I am also using the land as well as plonking my equines on it but the council don't make it easy. I've also re dug the old pond to try to restore that and I'm waiting for the complaints on that..
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i think the answer to this may vary according to where you are located. i was told by my planning department (Angus) that i definately didnt need to change the use, or obtain planning permission to graze horses on our fields which were previously deemed agricultural. But and thats a BIG BUT...i would need permssion to RIDE in my own fields.... my neighbour is allowed to ride in my fields under the right to roam (Countryside Act), and i hers.....but we are not allowed to ride in our own respective fields !!!! GEt that one !!
Helencus, I would also wonder what your council would say if you were planning to have sheep and horses rotating or mixed together ....lots of folks do!! If you need to change from agri to equestrian to graze horses, do you need to do the reverse to graze sheep...and then would you have to do it every time you rotate, LOL!!! Also, are they thinking equestrian, as in a livery yard, as opposed to private?
Emma T
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Interestingly you can actually use any land for agricultural use so no need to change if you rotate sheep with horses but you have to be careful how long you use as agricultural land ie graze sheep again as you can lose the equestrian usage. I think I have to apply for permission to ride in my fields also but I've lost the will to live on it all now so just do it and sod the consequences!
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It seems if you have plenty of acreage, planning is much easier to get, and especially if its for agricultural use. A horse is classed as a domestic pet, and interestingly, if you have room in your garden, you can put up stables for your "pet without permission.
As I keep other livestock, I have a holding number, but I do keep a fair number of ponies too. I prefer to keep my agricultural status, and have never applied for it to be changed over to equine - if I want stables, or a menage, then I would have to do this to get permission - and even after changing, they may not give permission!!
I ride in my fields, and also carriage drive, round cones etc. But I know some people in our area who have been stopped from leaving show jumps up in the fields.
If you only want to graze the fields then don't ask, and unless you are in green belt, a mobile field shelter may be the answer - so long as its open fronted, no hard standing, and you can move it if the council ask.
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Helencus, You DO NOT need Planning consent to graze horses...it is an agricultural activity. I think you have been given spurious info by a 'jobs worth' at your Council.
Further more, you do not need planning consent for a mobile field shelter as it is for animal welfare... your sheep can also use it. You are entitled to close the front by means of a gate.. again on welfare grounds... this does not change it to a stable.
This above is Planning Law which you can read on line. If you access a document entitled 'Planning for Farmers' there is a large section on how to deal with matters on equestrian issues. How do you think farmers deal with liveries... they only have to apply for change of use where land becopmes dedicated to horses and no ohter use.
Grazing is agricultural.
It is true some Councils have become sniffy on riding on your land but isually have to back down when challenged about it.
There are plenty of Council Officials who try the heavyweight approach because they are going to earn money from your planning application, but why apply iof it sis not necessary.?
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very interesting this topic my own take on the councils approach is usually when horses appear on fields with shelters etc the housing application is not that far of they have to be seen to be active to prevent the blow ins from manipulating the planning process for financially gain :wave:
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couldnt u just get a couple of sheep in with the horses?
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Well I never got change of use for the ponies but we do run sheep and pigs now and again. I have always had my holding number, we have afield shelter and one of the large barns has 5 stables in it. Stables are used for sheep pigs, ponies, hens and ducks in the winter. If my local council tried to have a go at me I would just point out all the other things in my area without planning, riding arenas, etc. We have been here over 13 years abd at no point did anyone say you cannot ride in your own fields and my local council guy is very near me. :horse: :chook: :cat: :pig: :dog:
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The primary use of my land is equestrian not agricultural so I had to get change of use. I now have pigs so some of the land is agricultural now but mostly for horses.
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Horses are not agricultural animals (unless you plough with them) but in the wording of the legislation agricultural uses include grazing. Further, government is generally supportive of equestrian uses in its guidance to planning authorities. So if you merely graze horses I think your'e on pretty safe grounds but not if you erect permanent jumps (or even leave jumps in the field), or build a manége or a shelter.
When we applied to build stables in our garden our local authority was not at all bothered by the implicit equestrian use of the adjacent fields (though we also have sheep). There were complete 'ing 'astards in how they handled the application, mind you, but eventually, very slowly, granted consent as being wholly within policy.
The holding number doesn't mean anything in this regard. It registers the land with the accursed Rural Payments Agency, and hence your local authority.
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I have a holding number and agricultural ground in Fife (with a house already on it) and previously had 7 acres with a shed but no house. In both cases it was and is clear that I am grazing livestock and breeding, not riding and there is no problem with this despite my being adjacent to a main road with lots of passing faces having a look at what I'm doing.
My barn was erected in the garden on the site of a previous residential caravan (used 30+ years ago when the house was originally built and left for a spare room) so with hindsight I should probably have replaced the caravan but I wanted a shed ;) A year or two later I built an extension into the field but maintained the fenceline between them so the top layer is "just" a field shelter/handling pen with gates and yes it was checked ::)
I would love a proper agri-barn with walls and yorkshire boarding above, to store hay and overwinter a few of the less good doers, but I can't afford the £20k odd sadly :( I have been told that all I'd need to do is inform planning of my intention and as long as it is less than the limit of m2 permitted for agri-development, I wouldn't have to put in a full application so all I need now is to win the lottery ;D
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OMG so much hate for the planners! I defo think this depends on where you live and what LA you are dealing with. The problem is that planning legislation is so full of grey areas and planners generally come from Mars and have no practical or sensible outlook on things. They will look for ways to take an application for stuff just to be awkward. Yes I work for a LA not for but closely with the planners and their decisions infuriate me! Everyone should make a point of checking applications in their area regularly and making comment of support as well as objections where appropriate. Get involved in the production of your Local Plan when it's out to consultation.
My biggest fear is the loss of productive agriculture, food producing land to house our ever growing population.
As for the grazing etc, depending on where you are, how well you get on with your neighbours etc, just try your hand. It's much harder for them to get you to remove something after it's done and you can't go to jail.
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Hi,
My problem is the opposite way around. I am looking at properties with equestrian land for sale. Do you need to get planning persission to revert it to agriculture land again? It like to plant an orchard poly tunnels and fruit cages. I'm guessing they properly all need permission too?
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May depend where you are but if it is small scale orchard/poly then it may count as domestic rather than agri unless you can prove you have a business plan for larger scale production and sales, or are obviously converting a large acreage that couldn't be anything else.
Not sure that most advertised 'equestrian land' wouldn't still be agri use in planning terms as discussed above, grazing is usually included as agri - unless there are stable yards/arenas etc which would need equi permission. In which case the previous owner may have gone for full equi or just the facilities and left the fields agri, worth checking when you view properties.
So no, reverting most previously horse grazing land to agri shouldn't be a problem, just be careful that your proposed use qualifies as agri before you go too far.