The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Introduce yourself => Topic started by: Amandaaj on April 21, 2011, 09:39:37 pm
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Hi Everyone,
Very sad today went up to my chicken and duck enclosure this morning and duck door was open and only one duck! and lots of feathers :( he had all blood down his front which when I picked him up for a cuddle didn't appear to be coming from him, so I can only assume it was from Milly - He wouldn't quack, didn't eat his breakfast and wouldn't go in the pond been so worried all day, a friend said the best thing to do would be to go and get another female duck so I did, got her this afternoon - but he doesn't want to know her- he has gone to bed with the chickens tonight and I have put her to bed on her own in the duck house - feel so sad for both of them- does anyone have any experience of this? I have tried so hard to fox proof the enclosure it seems almost an impossible task any help suggestions would be most grateful and if anyone can tell me how to help the surviving male - I don't know if he is hurt , traumatised broken hearted or all of the above
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I'm so sorry. It is heartbreaking to lose animals.
Could be all of them. Did you examine him closely for any bites? The predator might have had a nip at him and he got away. He will definitely be traumatised. I would have put the female in with him at night so that in the morning they believe they have always been together. I'd go and do it tonight. I would also get him more females. What breed is he? If he is a Campbell the recommended ratio is one drake to 7 to 10 females. Not suer about other breeds, but most of them need at elast 2 or 3 ladies.
As to protecting them there is only one sure way, since you can't logically kill all the foxes, you must prevent foxy getting in, even if it means chicken wire buried down into the ground, around the sides, and over the top, and checked regularly.
When you say the duck door was open, do you mean their run gate, or were they inside a shed? Foxes are clever but I don't think they can open shed doors or even run gates. Could anyone have let them out? Were your chickens OK? If they were, I would suspect a dog rather than a fox - one of my boys is duck obsessed and won't go near my chickens. The advantage I have is that they are gundogs and retrieve them to me so I can get them back into their run. They won't kill them intentionally.
Hope that helps
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We have had a fox open a pophole, which was held closed by a block of wood which turned on a nail. Now each pophole has two hefty ways to close it, and the doors are triple locked - twisty thing, catch and loop and wire. And I let the dogs out every now and then in the night to scare them off in case they are thinking of trying again. We are hoping that the foxes will take the naughty rabbits which are sneaking in instead of our poultry.
I agree with doganjo that the drake will be traumatised and probably injured, as well as missing his mate - they do mourn. Hopefully he will recover over the next few days. He will have gone in with the hens not because he doesn't like his new companion but because he is now frightened of being where he was attacked ie his duckhouse - it's no longer a safe refuge.
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Poor old duck.You can be sure he'll be back again tonight so be extra vigilant. I am having a huge enclosure made (at huge expense but I will only have to do it once :)0 This will be eight foot high deer netting, buried at the bottom and with loose barbed wire at intervals along the sides and a whack of barbed wire at the top.
To think the R.S.P.C. bloody A are rearing baby foxes and releasing them wherever they please >:( >:( If the hunt did this there would be an outcry, how cruel, how cruel!! But because it's the R.S.P.C.A. "Ahh, dear little fluffy foxes"
If foxes are a big problem 'phone your local hunt. They can't do anything now until hunting starts again but they may put you in touch with people who can ;)
We have foxes strolling around in the daytime here so nothing is safe.
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Do you still have fox hunts there? The joys of Brittany, foxes, phone the neighbour he comes over and dispatches them. Any time of the year.
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Its always sad to lose birds to these evil .........! Always use slide bolts on doors, at least two on each. Fox proofing is pretty straight forward really. I raise pheasants and manage not to lose any, or any poultry either. It soon becomes second nature. I agree with Sylvia, the bunny huggers were caught two years ago at 4am on neighbours land releasing "rescued foxes". We raised merry hell with them and shot every damned fox they released within a day, it seems they were driving up from Ipswich and releasing them all over the place. Plain white vans as well.
We also have a loopy townie who feeds them near us, a case of not seeing the wood for trees.
Treat them and think of them as large rats, then you wont go wrong.
I hope the drakes better soon.
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Leaving aside the stupidity of the act and the absolute cheek of anyone using someone else's land to release vermin without permission .... the cruelty to the fox which is a town fox used to eating take away junk and easy pickings, suddenly to be shoved out in a country environment with no abandoned cars and useful areas, no McDo and curry houses, they would starve very quickly and shooting is k inder. I dont understand the mentality.
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Oh these do goody types no know bounds, the RSPCA of course deny it, but you can bet your bottom dollar they sanction the twits doing it. I would gladly show them a coop after a fox attack, then of course I would be had up for abusing their human rights. Forgive me for I am an older man with extreme views, Oh how I long for the return of village gallows......... :o
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Nothing to forgive I agree BUT they would just say the fox is doing what comes naturally .... :-\
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Since our local foxhounds were "tamed" and the urban dumping the problems mushroomed around us. Theres just no such thing as a good fox or rat. Everythings out of balance to me, when good keepering takes place you dont have these problems. We have some nice folk near us who have rescued a five acre orchard, its got permissive access and they are trying to establish a nature reserve. They cant understand the hostility from the locals who keep poultry though and dont seem to realise the reality of a managed and stewarded countryside.
Muntjac and roe are destroying crops, geese are grazing and paddling thousands of acres ruining winter barley, moles and rabbits go untrapped.
I blame the RSPB and a shedload of others. Folk should read UN Agenda 21, but then thats another discussion!
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Nothing to forgive I agree BUT they would just say the fox is doing what comes naturally .... :-\
I agree, foxes are a part of the countryside and if we are going to provide them with lunch in the shape of unsecure coops etc we should blame ourselves not the fox, however I also agree they can be a problem but when this is the case they should be shot, not pursued across the country by weirdos on horses
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Class war eh? :o
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Nope, just find most horsey types arrogant (around here anyway) I own two shetlands myself but its hard looking down your nose at people when you are sitting on them :)
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Weel I will let you off then! :wave:
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I agree, foxes are a part of the countryside and if we are going to provide them with lunch in the shape of unsecure coops etc we should blame ourselves not the fox, however I also agree they can be a problem but when this is the case they should be shot, not pursued across the country by weirdos on horses
OMG!
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Nope, just find most horsey types arrogant (around here anyway) I own two shetlands myself but its hard looking down your nose at people when you are sitting on them :)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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I have just lost 12 hens within a week in two separate attacks in the middle of the day! The fox is digging in, we have had to double up on security but its becoming a problem. I was thinking about this today whilst weeding (as you do) when they banned foxhunting they should have put in place a cull of some type, afterall the fox has no natural predator. The problem is becoming bigger and eventually they will have to do something about it, the attacks in towns and cities has already begun and it will only get worse. The problem is shortsightedness when these reforms are made by people who A) have no idea about the countryside or B) dont care because they are chasing a cause!
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There is talk of repeal of the hunting act, under the coalition government of Englandshire, which would reinstate foxhunting along with all the rural benefits of it to flora and fauna. Personally I can't wait for hunting to become a legal method of fox control once again. It is the only humane way of culling foxes left.
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We are lucky with foxes here - our holding backs onto an Estate that has Shoots & employs a full-time gamekeeper, part of his job is to dispatch of all foxes in the area. Plus we have male dogs - so the smell of their wee should keep away any odd stray fox ;)
The problem we do have is Mink - the ruddy critters even got into the loft of the house this winter ??? Just lost our first chick to a Mink last night - thought I'd counted them all in before I shut the shed, but 2 had hidden overnight in the garden. 1 was ok, but got a fright when I let the dogs out first thing - the other wasn't a pretty sight :(
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I read on another thread that the townies are collecting their town foxes and dumping them en masse in country gardens and fields. I wonder if smallholders should return the compliment, catch all the damned foxes and dump them in the centre of big cities. (OK I know its only dreaming but ......) just had a bad fox day!
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Hiya HM :wave:
That's a ggod one ;) ;D
Yep, we had a HUGE problem with this where we lived in Wales - you'd know when it happened, the murdering multiplied overnight. The problem is, not only do they not know how to survive in the wild - so go for easy prey (such as penned-in poultry/young lambs/pigletts) BUT they also have no or little fear of humans or dogs. Some Townie do-gooders even rear abandoned fox pups alongside their dogs - then when they get "wild" with the pet dog it's = dump "somewhere nice in the country"...
Now you've got me started >:(
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Its really a case of education, probably in primary school. Its really hard to argue with someone who has the "cause" stuck in their mind and can not see the problem with a nice cuddly fox taking a few chickens. After all we eat chickens dont we.
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It is the only humane way of culling foxes left.
What is 'humane' about it? shooting them is humane but tearing them to bits with an out of control pack of hounds is anything but humane and what benefits to flore and fauna does a crowd of people tearing around the countryside on horses bring?
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Coley I sit on the fence when it comes to hunting, but not sure that poor shooting (not talking about crack shots who kill with a single bullet) poisoning and trappping dont appear to be humane to me.
On the other hand the fox does incredible damage, which I can respect when its taking for food, but not when the mauled bodies of my poor ducks are left headless in the stream. And yes it was definitely a fox not a stoat.
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I have seen the damage foxes can do at first hand, but usually they eat all they kill (in the wild that is) however I appreciate the problems faced by poultry owners and have no easy answers, you dont have to be a 'crack shot,' a 22 with a decent telescopic sight will do the job easily and trapping followed by humane destruction would be my second choice.
But on the other hand I have also seen the damage a pack of hounds can do, take it from me, you dont want any livestock getting in their way (or young tree plantations) or to be driving when Mr fox leads them onto a busy road as I have seen happen twice.
As for townies re-homing urban foxes in the wild, well you have idiots in all walks of life ::)
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....foxes are a part of the countryside and if we are going to provide them with lunch in the shape of unsecure coops etc we should blame ourselves not the fox, however I also agree they can be a problem but when this is the case they should be shot, not pursued across the country by weirdos on horses.
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I have seen the damage foxes can do at first hand, but usually they eat all they kill (in the wild that is) however I appreciate the problems faced by poultry owners and have no easy answers, you dont have to be a 'crack shot,' a 22 with a decent telescopic sight will do the job easily and trapping followed by humane destruction would be my second choice.
But on the other hand I have also seen the damage a pack of hounds can do, take it from me, you dont want any livestock getting in their way (or young tree plantations) or to be driving when Mr fox leads them onto a busy road as I have seen happen twice.
As for townies re-homing urban foxes in the wild, well you have idiots in all walks of life ::)
Well said.
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To reply to the original question:
He was prob traumatised - how is he now?
Re securing a poultry run:
Use sturdy fencing at least 6ft high - inc the fence posts. Tension it too, especially around the top.
Dig the fence into the the ground by AT LEAST 6 inches.
Concrete underneath the gate area. Put a good bolt on the gate.
Lock up the hen house at night inc pophole. A bolt is simple to fit, easy to use and quick to open/close up.
For an added bit of zap run a strand of electric fence wire around the outside of the run, about 12" up from the ground - keep it clear of long grass etc.
Hope all is well.
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The lady behind me in Tescos the other day was buying roast chicken legs to feed the local foxes. when i replied i fed them all the time with a lump of lead she was not impressed.She reminded me that the fox mange can be cured with some stuff you buy from the vet and that it is only the female fox that smells when she has cubs. Hope that has educated you all, i was open mouthed and had to leave before i completely lost control of myself and performed a very serious act in our local Tesco!!!
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It's pretty obvious that some people have absolutley no idea what foxhunting with hounds is about...that is how the ban came about. It had nothing to do with fox welfare. In fact, it has had the opposite affect, with too many foxes now and many of them are suffering.
Hysterical reactions about the ripping to bits of foxes by hounds are counter to the truth, and do nothing to help foxes. Hunting is a truly selective method of fox control. It kills foxes which are old, sick, or otherwise compromised,and ensures the survival of the best individuals to breed the next generation.
The options are:
Shooting. I have used a shotgun for forty years, and I have shot countless foxes. Some were killed instantly, many were wounded and had to be followed up using dogs, not always successfully. All foxes which receive a dose of lead into their bodies will die from septicaemia and/or gangrene.
The successful killing of a fox with a shotgun depends on the terrain, the cover in which the shot is taken, the speed at which the animal is moving, the range at which the shot is taken, and the expertise of the shooter. Anybody with a shotgun can, and often will, take a pot shot at any fox they see. Users of shotguns are not described as marksmen. Because the shot from a shotgun cartridge spreads as it flies through the air, the shotgun is a 'point and shoot' weapon, rather than one which requires specific aim.
Foxes can be shot using an appropriate rifle, which does require a good degree of marksmanship, but it is not always possible to get a good bead on a fox with a rifle as foxes are not inclined to stand out in the open presenting an ideal opportunity to the marksman. It is unwise to use a rifle to shoot a fox in cover, as even a blade of grass can deflect a bullet enough to foul the shot. Foxes shot in the lungs can run on and be lost. They do leave a trail of frothy blood which, in favourable conditions, can help their retrieval. Shot in the heart, they will probably drop dead. There is not much space between heart and lungs in a fox, and a marksman trying to put a bullet in the right place at 100-150 yards has to be extremely efficient. Foxes which receive a bullet in the gut are almost impossible to find as they run on for considerable distances, leaving no discernable sign to follow. Shots to the head at such range, with the complications presented by cover, position of the target, wind speed/direction, and the ability of the operator, are seldom attempted.
Snaring. Foxes are creatures of habit, and they will use certain routes regularly. This allows the use of snares as a reliable means of killing them. Runs through fences, or in the open can be watched for fox activity, and snares hung to catch them. It doesn't take a great deal of skill to set a snare on a fox run. However, the skill comes in ensuring that the snare kills the fox, and not some other non-target user of the route, such as a badger, or a roe deer, or someone's cat or dog, or an otter...
Any animal caught in a snare is held by the ensnared part of the body until death comes about. If the snare is around the neck, as it should be if it was correctly set, death is by strangulation. If it is around some other part of the body, the ensnared creature must rely on the conscientious snarer to turn up, as he is required to do by law, within twenty four hours, to bring about release or death. Many animals caught in snares for even a short period are not fit for release.
I have seen badgers caught in snares and, before they have died, they have dug huge holes in the ground, and almost completely destroyed the base of fence straining posts, their claws blunted and bleeding, and their teeth broken. Some of them have attempted to climb the fence on which the snare was set, and have died hung from the fence wires. I have seen evidence of snared foxes dragging a log, to which the snare was attached, for considerable distances before dying. Some were still alive when discovered. Deer in snares don't bear thinking about.
Gassing. It is legal to use gas to kill foxes below ground. Where they are known to be in an earth, the operator will dig turves and lay them in the hole mouths, effectively blocking them, after phostoxin tablets are deposited in the earth. Moisture within the blocked earth activates the poisonous gas, which permeates the system and kills the inhabitants. If these holes are later unblocked and investigated, there will often be found dead foxes within the first few feet, demonstrating that they have attempted to exit the earth before death.
Badgers are often to be found in holes in the ground away from their recognised setts, as are cats on occasion, otters, and sometimes stoats and weasels.
Lamping with a rifle. Night shooting with lamp and rifle is an effective way of killing foxes, but only if the foxes have not been lamped of shot at before. Foxes which have been repeatedly disturbed by lampers will not stick around when the beam sweeps over them. It is a very good way to kill the young foxes of the last cubbing as they begin to find their way around and disperse from their birth den. They are pretty bold and inquisitive,and have no sense of the dangers from lamps or rifles.
Other ways in which foxes can be killed are many. Terriers can be used to bay at the fox below ground, giving men the opportunity to use electronic locators on the dogs' collars to locate the position of dogs and fox, and to dig to them. Conscientious operators will kill the fox humanely, but that is not always the case. Some terriers are extremely hard and, having met with foxes before, will just go straight in and kill their fox. Badgers can inadvertently, or otherwise, be victims of such activities.
Lurchers and running dogs can be used by day and night to course and kill foxes.
Poison baits can be set out to kill foxes. Such activity can endanger non-target species.
Oh, and foxes can sometimes be caught in cage traps. Some people consider them to be humane, but I suppose much depends on the method of killing them once discovered.
Many people are not fussy about how, or when, foxes meet their deaths. Some couldn't care less. I haven't met anyone, ever, who would lose any sleep over a fox or how it died...apart from hunting folk.
Those people who hunted foxes with hounds, and who considered their activity to be a sport as well as a means of fox control, had a duty of care for the fox as a species. Vixens were left alone during the breeding season. Copses and coverts were established in many old hunting countries, and hedges and rail fences were preserved as those were beneficial to foxes and to the enjoyment and challenge of hunting.
Hounds were bred for generations to have the qualities required for hunting their quarry. Huntsmen cared for their hounds and their hounds loved them for it. Horses were bred and maintained; hundreds of people and businesses were involved on the peripheries of the hunts and their stables and kennels, and communities were based on mutual needs and respect.
Foxes were hunted and were either killed or got away, depending on their ability or, sometimes, on the consideration of them by hunt staff. Not all foxes were killed. Some, having given a good run and displayed guile and strength, were left to live on.
Surely hunting was the only truly humane and selective method of fox control, having self-discipline and preservation, not destruction, of the fox at its heart.
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Gosh i think we've opened a can of worms here! foxes are a part of our British wildlife and love em or hate them they are here to stay, I quite like to see a healthy happy good looking fox though that's not to say I wouldn't shoot him if he were making off with one of my lambs! It's all about balance too much of one thing is not good and at least foxhunting did move the cubs on a bit not concentrate them in one area.
I hate the thought of people feeding them, they are wild and should be able to get their own food
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She should not feed the foxes cooked meat its bad for them, especially cooked chicken bones. ( I know they will scrounge them from McDonalds waste bins etc. )
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"It's pretty obvious that some people have absolutley no idea what foxhunting with hounds is about".
Zat so? I thought it involved the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible, old I know, but still the most succinct description of that 'sport' I have come across. As for snares and hunting with a shotgun? pikey pursuits on a par with robbing stables.
The only regret I have re; the foxhunting ban was, that it was brought in on the back of labours low key 'class war' as opposed to a genuine belief in animal welfare.
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When hunting foxes with horses and hounds it is not 100% guaranteed that you will get anything and any foxes flushed are given a chance to escape and not be found where as lamping at night with vehicle and long range rifle gives the fox less of an advanage.
Hunting is 100% guaranteed that anything caught will be stone dead before any "tearing appart" takes place. where as guns and snares can leave animals suffering.
Haven ridden with a hunt a few times i have noticed that the dogs hardly ever rip the fox limb from limb as most people see to think.
Despite agreeing with fox hunting i used to listen to people opposing, until i saw the damage they caused to many horses (including my aunts) during the many violent protests.
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as with any subject there are those that are for and those that are against and never the the two will agree
yes if you are not protective of your poultry the fox will get them (in 46 years we have not lost one hen to the fox)
lambs are a different thing the hunt used to come over our land and they had two events a Tuesday hunt and a Saturday hunt when the protesters started sticking there neb in the Tuesday hunt was left alone it was only the Saturday hunt that was disrupted with students from stirling uni (transported there in stirling uni mini buses) they could not give a flying fig about property crops or livestock or the fox for that matter (paid protesters with nothing else to do with there time)
lamping with high powered rifles one of my neighbours houses has been hit with bullets on more than one occasion and plod once again could not care less the real reason they are out at night the badgers and the deer now i am not criticising the true lampers that have permission and the land owners blessing
snaring that is another pet hate of mine who gives the tollies the right to come on my land and set snares and catch cats
as to pikey pursuits it is all very well blaming a much maligned group of people when the most likely suspects are within your own comunity as i am all to aware of in our own area >:(
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foxes are part of the countryside, like it or not, thats not to say they should not be controlled, shooting them is more humane than hunting with dogs.
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I have been out with hunt since I was a child and have never seen the hounds get a live fox yet. The fox was normally shot before the whips allowed the hounds in. If a hound can corner a fox then there is something wrong with it. The hunt is not about killing the fox but the balance and respect the fox has when it knows it has a predator. Now they don't have a predator and do not respect the smell of dogs or hounds which was more the point of the hunt than any kill.
I let the hunt across my land and I have sheep and lambs and the hounds have no interest in them and have never harmed any livestock. If we don't reinstate the hunt then foxes will suffer from being a weak species with a lot of disease and this has already started to show by livestock getting mange. This week I have seen 7 foxes out in day light playing in fields with livestock and it is only monday.
We need to bring back a balance to the coutryside and without local hunts we loose alot of land management,jobs and sports such as point to point
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"until i saw the damage they caused to many horses (including my aunts) during the many violent protests."
While having absolutely no time for 'professional protestors' I would suggest many more horses are actually killed in the course of the hunt than have been killed or injured by protestors.
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Back on to the OP's topic.. fox proofing your pen and night enclosure is costly and hard work
For any pen you'll need to dig a trench about a metre deep and hang some galv or stainles steel chain link fence wire in it then back fill for a fox will happily dig under 18 inches of set in wire if the food is there. have a 1 foot upstand above the ground to connect /overlap to the main fence wire.
The day pen wire will need to be at least seven foot high with no jump over places or trees within three metres of the wire .. the wire used must be at least 1.5 mm thick and have a lap over of at least a foot above ground with the chain link wire. A fox will happily cut its mouth & paws to shreds chewing through cheap thin chicken wire ... some people who keep ducks for the crimbo market use a decent electric fence for day time prevention usually five or six strands reaching up at least five feet set in a well de weeded alleyway .. they still lose duck but not so many ..all duck are put in fully fox proofed sheds over night an hour before dusk .
Don't forget to have the sub surface wire and a lintel at the entrance gate to the pen with a gap no greater than 3 inches at the bottom of the gate . Make sure the gate will not easily be pushed /twisted at the bottom ot allow access 9 use a batton for the gate to be pushed against . Always use hasp staple and a lock to secure it as well as bolts top and bottom .. dion't just rely on bolts , snecks or hooks & eyes.. You can always hang the key on some wire or stron cord fixed to the fence to ensure the key is always there.
The night pen / enclosure will need a sound wire roof as well to be totally safe ..my mate lost his 15 Orphington buffs when a fox jumped six feet off a tractor cab into the pen , it chewed its way into the shed at the back where there were some clumps of nettles... at sometime each night it managed to jump back out using the shed roof and revisit the next evening . Paul came home after night shift to find two birds missing and the rest slaughtered.
I'd also go for a hasp and staple with a lock as a way of securing the door and pop hole ..pegs of wood are usually pulled out and wooden turnbuckles are no probs to an educated fox. Even the much vaunted guillotine can occasionally be lifted by the odd fox and they pass that skill on to their offspring.
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"as to pikey pursuits it is all very well blaming a much maligned group of people when the most likely suspects are within your own comunity as i am all to aware of in our own area Angry"
Pikeys can live in a caravan or a 4 bedroomed house it doesnt change their character, as for "much maligned" could there possibly be a reason why they are so 'maligned'? and, sorry if this offends, their relative prosperity always seem to increase when metal prices rise >:( >:( ;)
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Pikeys can live in a caravan or a 4 bedroomed house it doesnt change their character,
Whereas all other thieves and ne'r-do-wells just live in houses, eh?
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coley i don't know if you have been the victim of pikeys from my own experiences of theft the mention of a white transit to plod they automatically put the crime down to THE GYPSYSIES thats plods involvement finished with crime never solved or persued and the criminals left to get on with screwing every one over insurances increase and if plod does get lucky and it goes to court it is a victimless crime EH!!!!!!!!! where do these sheriffs get there ideas from and the thief just goes out and steals some more :o
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While having absolutely no time for 'professional protestors' I would suggest many more horses are actually killed in the course of the hunt than have been killed or injured by protestors.
not meaning to be rude but have you actually had the experience of riding with a hunt?
In all the years i havebee involved th worst injury i have seen caused but the actually ride is a broken leg, where as the protestors slashed flancs with knives, and set trip lines to trip a ow of horses, jumped out inforn of them and setting fire crackers causing a crush.
a broken leg is a more naural injury than a human caused incident.
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Whereas all other thieves and ne'r-do-wells just live in houses, eh?
Pikey,traveller,gypsy whatever you want to call them, tend to be unemployed, living is a static or mobile usually, own a few horses and dogs, make their living off stealing and benefits, we have a 'travelling community' nearby and many empty houses, many business premises left unattended overnight ect have all have been stripped of copper piping and wiring, many manholes have been lifted, in short they make life a misery for many.
Oh, re the above a number of them have actually given up their 'nomadic' existence and built houses, its local name is Pikey raa, clivver lads managing all that on benefits eh?
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When hunting foxes with horses and hounds it is not 100% guaranteed that you will get anything and any foxes flushed are given a chance to escape and not be found where as lamping at night with vehicle and long range rifle gives the fox less of an advanage.
Hunting is 100% guaranteed that anything caught will be stone dead before any "tearing appart" takes place. where as guns and snares can leave animals suffering.
Haven ridden with a hunt a few times i have noticed that the dogs hardly ever rip the fox limb from limb as most people see to think.
Despite agreeing with fox hunting i used to listen to people opposing, until i saw the damage they caused to many horses (including my aunts) during the many violent protests.
I thought the idea was to give the fox the least advantage possible? Now dont get me wrong, if people want to ride around in red jackets etc thats their business, but to try and excuse it as a 'service to the rural community' is stretching it,
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Hunting is 100% guaranteed that anything caught will be stone dead before any "tearing appart" takes place.
100% guarenteed?
Haven ridden with a hunt a few times i have noticed that the dogs hardly ever rip the fox limb from limb as most people see to think.
Hardly ever?
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Ok now boys, time out, shake hands and be friends - and let's go back to helping the original poster, bless 'em........
:wave:
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I thought the idea was to give the fox the least advantage possible? Now dont get me wrong, if people want to ride around in red jackets etc thats their business, but to try and excuse it as a 'service to the rural community' is stretching it,
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Obviously you don't know your local hunt or the services they provide to the rural community for example fallen stock collection and disposal, local community events, employment to rural communities and yes believe it or not they look after the land as well the hunt is secondary to the work they do everyday. I have been involved with local hunts since I was very small and have never wore a red jacket yet just warm waterproof riding gear the same as I do when out for a hack.
The idea is to hunt to take out the weak and diseased and leave a strong fox community which have a very high chance of evading capture and put the balance of predator and prey right, which stops the foxes running a mock like they are now under the current ban.
The hounds are well trained and the whip will not allow them in until the fox is dead, but as with everyday life accidents happen and a hound may catch a live one just the same as if when out walking and my dog catches a rabbit and kills it is not planned or premeditated and everything is done to prevent it.
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Obviously you don't know your local hunt or the services they provide to the rural community for example fallen stock collection and disposal, local community events, employment to rural communities and yes believe it or not they look after the land as well the hunt is secondary to the work they do everyday. I have been involved with local hunts since I was very small
"fallen stock disposal" thats when they collect carcasses to feed the dogs rather than buy dog food? anyway is that not forbidden under some EU directive?
Looking after the land? not according to most I have spoken to, apart from fencing damage, pasture loss due to poaching and the spread of disease just what benefits do they bring?
Local community events? true I suppose but 'hunt balls' have never been my thing.
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"fallen stock disposal" thats when they collect carcasses to feed the dogs rather than buy dog food? anyway is that not forbidden under some EU directive?
Looking after the land? not according to most I have spoken to, apart from fencing damage, pasture loss due to poaching and the spread of disease just what benefits do they bring?
Local community events? true I suppose but 'hunt balls' have never been my thing.
no fallen stock is not necessarily fed to the hounds they have a licence for correct disposal. The owners of the land are asked if land can be used and they never damage my land when they cross it or both the live stock and local community events are more than the occasional ball they run point to points which allows amateur jockeys to come through and be licenced to move there career on, they organise events most months that benefit the community as well as teaching young one good horsemanship and how to ride safely.
If you keep livestock it is to your advantage to know the local huntsmen/women as they have knowledge that can be very useful and the animal welfare will point you towards the hunt kennels when you have fallen stock.
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really sorry for your ducks and chickens,but we cannot blame the fox in this case,the fox was just looking for its next meal,just try to have your locks and doors checked regularly so this massacre doesnt happen again ,i repeat .it was not the foxes fault
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snaring that is another pet hate of mine who gives the tollies the right to come on my land and set snares and catch cats
Now I had to go and look up 'tollies' because the herd prefix of my neighbour who used to have the Jersey herd (and who bred Hillie's great great grandfather) was TOLLIE. So I didn't think it could be a term of abuse. (I never have asked her why TOLLIE.)
Thanks to wiktionary, all is explained.
Tollie ; English n. bullock (from ithole Zulu for calf); Scottish n. (vulgar) a piece of ess-aitch-one-tee
And we thought it was Britain and America who are "two nations divided by a common language". ;) :D
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sally it has taken you a while to work that one out all you need to do is ask poke is another one that has poles apart meaning :farmer:
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Amanda, I am sorry to hear your news, we have a pair of Buzzards that nest every year in the trees by my chicken coupe and the young terrify the life out of my chickens I have got through about 6 cockerels now they always take the attack though they did start to take my meat bird chicks from my shed I would open the shed door so the youngsters could have some fresh air on a nice hot day and when it can to lock up I would be 1 or 2 birds down, my Jack Russell tends to take care of the fully grown Foxes and my cat will take care of the babies perhaps get yourself a couple of Feral cats they are very good and taking care of the babies. Everybody see the posters of the cute little fox cubes they don't show the pictures of the trauma they cause to livestock. if you don't have electric fencing invest in some they help.
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sally it has taken you a while to work that one out all you need to do is ask poke is another one that has poles apart meaning :farmer:
Ok, I'll bite. :D 'poke'?
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Before i start i mean no offence just voicing my opinion!
Firstly the comment really early on(cant remeber it exactly) 'foxes eat all they kill' WRONG they are just killing machines they will kill the whole area and maybe take 1 or 2.
Secondly coley you obviously have a HUGE problem with hunts and us 'Weirdos'. They hunt will always come when asked to dispatch foxes by legal means, and do provide service to rural communities. And they have the greatest respect for their quarry and countryside, will take young'uns under their wings and teach them valuable life skills!!!
You say that shooting is humane?? Well lets think about it hunting will kill at most around 30 foxes a season!! Shooting whether it be lamping, or using a shotgun. You could kill up to 30 in a week. Our neibouring estate shot 30 in 1 night!!! Think about that, hunting ONLY takes out the weak and the old to keep the fox population in control. Foxes have no natural predator apart from humans!
Shooting; which im heavily involved with, can leave a fox with shotgun injuries because of a bad or misplaced shot, same with rifles(although less often) thats ok with you because its humane. But you clearly dislike the hunt even though a fox will rarely and thats like 1 in 100000000000000000 get away from the hounds if the fox is weak and or old. A fit fox can outrun a pack of hounds!!!