The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Hilarysmum on January 06, 2008, 11:13:21 am

Title: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on January 06, 2008, 11:13:21 am
I have been approached by customers who would like me to sell them piglets which I will rear for them up to an agreed weight.  They would pay an agreed amount for the piglet, the costs and the work involved.  They would state when and at what weight they wanted their pig butchered.  I would take the pig to the abattoire.  During the piglets growing time they would visit as and when they wanted.

I wondered if anyone else has tried this, and what the drawbacks are. 
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: pigsatlesrues on January 16, 2008, 05:50:21 pm
Funnily we intend to offer the same service. It is very popular in UK - there is a guy who runs a business doing just that.

It can only be a win win for both parties involved so go for it. Some people just wont want to rear an animal, but by owning it it gives them the satisfaction of eating their own pork.

Kate
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Malc on January 18, 2008, 10:17:24 am
We hope to launch a similar scheme in the autumn (when our first litters should be ready). Chief advantage seems to be with cashflow. Most schemes I've seen involve a payment at the start with the balance being paid on delivery of the meat. Can't see a problem really - I'm sure there is one!
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Rosemary on January 18, 2008, 11:58:34 am
I can't see any drawbacks either - unless your costs rise dramatically during the rearing period and end up a lot more than you had budgeted for. It will certainly help with cashflow if you get the money to cover costs up front. Seems like a good scheme to me!

Will the owners have visiting rights?
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: pigsatlesrues on January 18, 2008, 12:02:20 pm
We were thinking of a fact pack in which you get to learn all about the pig you have chosen and the way it is being reared. There would updates of photos on the website and any news or funny stories relating to the pig and of course visiting would be encouraged as well.

I think it could work really well.

Kate
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: carl on January 18, 2008, 12:25:04 pm
i have sponsors for some of my current batch of porkers, two whole ones for one chap, and three other people have 1/2 a pig.  all they seem to be bothered about is when and how much pork they will get. although one chap wants to do the full hfw pig in a day thing including black pudding. it has helped with costs and will provide a guaranteed figure at the end. though i havn't done this for profit, just because my friends were interested in getting some free range rare breed pork at the same time i was getting into pigs as a hobby. the one chap with two pigs,simon, has brought his kids to look at them but went indoors quickly beacuase of the weather not being to his liking. I think it is a good plan for smallholders to get  a bit of outside interest in their livestock to help cover costs, but what happens if things go wrong and there is no end product? . as all they are basically doing is covering the marginal costs and not any of the other overheads it is difficult to see a commercial goldmine. but as i say it helps justify the activity and will hopefully help keep rare breeds on the go. of course there is the beautiful tasty pork, and the joy of looking after such interesting animals. but it also offers the challenge to smallholders of making a go it, doing some marketing and networking and increasing interest in other things you may be doing. ie. sell them eggs, veg and chicken etc as well as pork.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on January 18, 2008, 02:07:04 pm
We get so many visitors to see the pigs anyway, that a couple of  visiting "owners" would not be a problem.  If one did not reach maturity we could exchange it, although for us it would be a tragedy because of the loss of life not money.  Odd really to be so attached to what we eat!!!
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Tony J on January 18, 2008, 02:46:47 pm
I did this last year with my next door neighbor. I had 2 pigs, they bought 1, and I sold half of the other one, so my half was almost free. I would do it again because an added bonus was that the neighbors looked after the pigs and hens when we went away for a few days break.

Tony
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: carl on January 18, 2008, 03:06:18 pm
I admit it is very difficult to detach youself away from the relationship you build up with your stock, especially if you only have a few. I think the naming thing is the problem, my six year old gives everything a name, and has a memory like an elephant. he gets very upset when we discuss what will happen with everything. he hates the thought of eating the cockerels, but would gladly eat one of the mean ganders.however, swapping stuff with friends can be quite good as it is easier when your dinner has no name. luckily the turkey we had at xmas was never named, as i kept it away from my son as much as possible and he did not like the look of them or the sound. ( turkeys being another adoption option if you know what i mean, although it was hard work just processing 4 for the table).
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on January 18, 2008, 04:24:14 pm
I have around 60 pigs at any one time, I cant NOT name them.  Its a thing I have.  Its extremely hard when they go, oddly its harder to let one go to a new home than to the abattoir. 
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on February 26, 2008, 09:19:35 am
After all the encouragement and advice I received on this topic I thought I would update - for anyone considering this as an idea - we sold one at beginning of January, the people drop in about once a fortnight, bringing treats and expressing an interest in the amount of bacon they will get.  Since then they have introduced another couple who bought a pig, and so it continues at present we have five pigs.  The regular and guaranteed income is very useful, and has allowed us to plan ahead with more certainty.  Would certainly recommend this to anyone who is considering it.  The only drawback I can see is arranging to get them to the abattoir to coincide with owner's covenience and our timings.

HM
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Fluffywelshsheep on February 26, 2008, 10:06:25 am
what would happen if  the person dropped out of the program ?
eg didn't want the pig at the end of it?
eg could bring them self to eat it and contacted you to cancel the agreement
am just playing devils adaduct here
hehe
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Guy on February 26, 2008, 10:35:51 am
I have seen numerous schemes like this on the go and if i had the space i would certainly take on a few more piggies to run a similar scheme , there does seem to be an appetite for it (excuse the pun!)
as you say the only drawback could be a dramatic rise in rearing costs half way through , but i guess no different to normal then as i always give an approx. price to my customers on order confirmation.

as with regards  to someone dropping out - if you take a decent deposit initially then a lot of the cost is coverd anyway , and i have found my "books" are usually oversubscribed  (although i only rear two at a time) so there is always someone willing to buy quarter or half a piggy. another idea would perhaps to have an agreement drawn up re. cancellation as in any other business deal ?? :) 
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Fluffywelshsheep on February 26, 2008, 10:39:44 am
:)
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: stephen on February 26, 2008, 12:06:57 pm
sounds like a really good idea to me! the same could be applied to turkeys, chickens, lambs and even beef although i doubt someone would want to buy a whole cow! i imagine poultry would be more popular for the festive season tho!
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on February 26, 2008, 12:11:40 pm
I have an agree ment that if someone needs to drop out if I keep half the amount paid.  Also they pay small regular payments rather than one large payment, helps a lot. 

Wonderful idea to do this with chickens etc.  Could be a great way to finance the purchase of turkeys or geese for raising for Xmas, and for people who want the free range ideal yet are limited financially its one way to avoid a large expense at the most expensive time. 

Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: rustyme on February 26, 2008, 12:40:30 pm
the idea does seem a very good way for the smallholder to make the best use of the market ,so to speak. One problem ,apart from those already mentioned, that may be hard to overcome is, a strike of foot and mouth or bluetongue or with poultry bird flu.... These are problems that would hit anyone with stock, but, it would need to be thought out carefully if money has already been taken for half a pig , or whatever , then  you lose your stock due to government rules or just can't move your stock for possibly weeks or even months. Is there any glaring mistake in my theory ? I know that you would have most of the money for the 'product' so therefore most costs would be covered, but not so if you have to feed x number of pigs for a few extra weeks/months !! This isn't said to put anyone off the idea , just to see what could be done to avoid someone going down the pan !!!
 
Russ
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Fluffywelshsheep on February 26, 2008, 01:07:06 pm
a strike of foot and mouth or bluetongue or with poultry bird flu....

hehe that was my next point
I really like that idea especially for the chicken/turkeys, I would even concider the possiblities of doing if for next xmas
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on February 26, 2008, 02:56:20 pm
Russ that is something that would need a lot of forethought, but for anyone rearing livestock these are things that have to be factored in anyway.  The difference would be if the "owner" backed out because the animal was bigger than they wanted although I can offer a smaller replacement under those circumstances, and would use the larger animal for bacon, not sure how it would work for turkey though.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: stephen on February 27, 2008, 08:39:28 am
i think for things like foot and mouth, avian bird flu etc these are unavoidable! could put a bit in the contract between you and the customer / owner of the animal about acts of well i suppose god! ie if the country has a bird flu / foot and mouth etc epedemic and their animal has to be slaughtered under government orders then they would recieve no refund etc as it is out of your hands and was unavoidable, if you are under quaranteen and the animals end up staying for a month or two extra then the owner / customer should pay for the associated costs of keeping the animal as that would also be out of your control!

just read that and it does kinda sound a bit harsh towards the customer who just wants some decent, lovingly, properly raised meat but by entering into something like this they are kinda taking on the responsibilities of raising animals as back seat drivers! and if the country suffered a massive outbreak of one of those diseases then prices at the local tesco, asda etc would rocket so its not that unfair! and after all i assume those on here that do this scheme do it to make some money?!?

when we eventually get a larger space (seems like that day will never come!!) i plan to have several different breeds of turkey (love norfolk black's and crollwitzer) and several different types of chicken raised for people to buy and possibly phesant etc i know several already who would be intrested in something like this and alot more who would jump at the chance when it gets to x-mass, plus i think the idea of paying a bit over a couple of months appeals to lots of people at this expensive time of year.

not sure myself how it would work on the sizes of a turkey / chicken etc i suppose the purchaser could choose one they liked the look of, feed them all the same etc and charge a blanket price for them, some would be bigger and some would be smalller but the bird they would get would be the one they chose at the start??!! cant think of another way unless you raised some and sold them to people at the end going by the weight but then you run the risk of having too many for the demand, not being able to sell any etc etc

 ;D
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: carl on February 27, 2008, 09:34:38 am
As I have said before, I have a couple of sponsored pigs on the go. They were due to go to the abbatoir this week. however the farmer turned butcher who has been helpful thusfar, and was taking them in with their pigs has suddenley become unhelpful. It has been a case of ." this week, I thought I said last week" and " sorry I lost Your number" etc. So now I have to start ringing round to organise something else. Meanwhile the sponsors have booked time off work to pick up pork which won't have been processed.So best laid plans can and will go wrong. It should all end allright, but I won't have made any money at all.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on February 27, 2008, 02:04:57 pm
Carl that is so depressing and hard for you.  It must be very disappointing.  On the bright side, your customers will be getting superb pork, with  luck they will not only want more next time, but will pass on your details to others.  My waking nightmare is if they went as far as the abattoir and were seized at that time.  Leaving me with the double bill for killing and disposal with having to repay the customer or find an alternative fast.  Hopefully thats how it will remain, just a nightmare.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: stephen on February 27, 2008, 02:53:40 pm
that would be a plus for doing the same idea with poultry, you wouldnt have to worry about getting to the the abattoir etc and it would be alot easier to arrange the pick up's for the customers! although i imagine it could become very hard work if you ended up with masses and masses to sort!
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: carl on February 27, 2008, 03:43:19 pm
There is a nightmare scenario of getting to the abbatoir, failing on one of many levels of red tape and having to pay for the disposal of your livestock. so i suppose its a case of fail to prepare and you prepare to fail. Although one abatoir I rang today knew nothing of the new food chain information forms that now have to be produced for pigs? Hopefully all will be sorted before too long. All part of the learning curve, and it will just make me wiser and more determined. The poor porkers don't realise what's coming, bless them.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: nellie on March 02, 2008, 02:44:56 pm
we offer this service with other smallholders in france via our website www.freerangefrance.com

We dont have a huge surplus so if anyone backs out we keep the meat for ourselves but insist on a large deposit so that we dont loose out financially!! :D
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on March 03, 2008, 08:16:14 am
Thats worth noting thanks Nellie.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: katelock on March 25, 2008, 09:41:25 pm
I am sort of doing the same thing as one of my pigs is for two friends who will buy half each. Does any one have an idea of what price a pig will go for at about 160lbs (which is what my last ones weighed in at)? I will record the cost of feed etc, but interested to hear what others are charging. Kate
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: nellie on March 26, 2008, 10:31:43 pm
Before you calculate a price remember to include not only the feed cost but the abbatoir plus your time ;)

If your pigs have a good life their meat will be fantastic- so dont sell it on the cheap ;)
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: stephen on April 21, 2008, 01:34:36 pm
With regards to prices:

http://www.countrylife.co.uk/news/article/175074/Raising_your_own_chickens.html

scroll down the page to the links.... some sell chicken for £21 a kg and others £10 / £15 and the pork prices vary as well.... i suppose you have to factor in the demand in your local area as well as the feeding costs etc

 :chook: :cow: :sheep: :turkey:
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Jayhawk on April 22, 2008, 06:51:30 pm
I don't think this point has been raised (other than FMD). What happens if the pig you have sold and has been visited every weekend by purchaser and children, dies?
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on April 22, 2008, 08:53:06 pm
You replace it with another one.  People become very pragmatic when it comes to dinner.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Jayhawk on April 23, 2008, 07:32:24 pm
HM, That was my point. OK you can replace the (late)pig with another if you have another available. I'm thinking more along the lines of this: we buy in say 9 weaners (we have no breeding stock) and they all have "owners". We provide the land, housing, feed, care etc. One dies ??? ??? ??? We have no ready replacement. I should stress that in our situation we are not commercial or striving to be. We see this as an opportunity for people to have a pig of their own (which they can't do themselves), which has a happy life. They just need to cover the costs. Perhaps this would be a solution. You actually have a share in the stock. 9 pigs and 9 people each have 1/9th of the stock. If one dies, you have 1/9th of 8 instead of 9?? Gosh isn't life complicated by humans ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Wildman on April 24, 2008, 07:01:20 pm
Hi, I cant understand how you price this up. It sounds good to me but how do you cost it out. Do they buy a weaner from you and then pay you to bring it up? also what if it needs a vet.
Can you tell me how it works as I do think it would work and well at that.
Thank you
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Jayhawk on April 24, 2008, 08:04:05 pm
Hi, I cant understand how you price this up. It sounds good to me but how do you cost it out. Do they buy a weaner from you and then pay you to bring it up? also what if it needs a vet.
Can you tell me how it works as I do think it would work and well at that.
Thank you
Just trying to think it out at the moment. The situation we actually have at the moment is that we have 6 weaners owned by three people. They are on land owned by one of them. That's her input. I feed and look after them. That's my input. No 3 provides straw and use of a forklift. That's his input. Feed spilt 3 ways. We are taking another 3 weaners soon from a friend of the landowner. They will be for her friends. They will pay for the purchase and a pro rata share of the feed. This is where the simplicity ends ;D What we have to decide is whether they actually own a pig or a share the stock. The 6 six we have are co-owned and so if one were to die, the 3 of us would have 5 pigs not 6. I think any people we bring in would have to be treated in the same way. Possibly by getting a bill monthly. Month 1 would be purchase and haulage, feed & any other costs (rent?, vet?), month 2 feed & any other costs (rent?, vet?) etc up to last month which would include slaughter and butchery costs.
Hope that clears that up then ;D ;D
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Wildman on April 24, 2008, 09:05:44 pm
I see, Its not the same as me keeping pigs on my place for others. If I was to have pigs for others it would be somewhat different as I would need something towards my costs and time.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Wildman on April 24, 2008, 09:08:05 pm
The posting I was looking at was from Hilarysmum, I would like to know how She did the costings and what they would have to pay.
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on April 25, 2008, 12:56:44 pm
I kept piglets for 4 years before I embarked on this.  I did a huge spreadsheet did a lot of calculations.  I breed my own pigs.  I know to the last euro the cost of each pig at slaughter and the profit/loss of each pig at point of sale (butchered). 

My costs for the rear your owns are kept separate from the rest of the herd.  I "charge" 80-120 euros for an 8 week weaner under this scheme.   I charge a given amount per month, into which I have factored the forecast price rises on feed.  I allow a very small amount for vet bills, hoping that the total from that batch would cover a vet visit to the one.  I always have weaners and growers available in the awful event of a loss I would replace the pig.  I would offer the "owner" the choice of another pig, or a refund.  I guarantee quality pork at the end of the period.  My charges reflect the quality of the meat at the end and the guaranteed free range quality of life for the piglets from birth till dinner plate.

So far, and this is in its infancy, have a number of very satisfied customers, and a new batch due to go off next month. 

You do have to be prepared for lots of interrupted meals when "owners" turn up on spec. and buy shares in the Kleenex tissue co. around slaughter time. 
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Wildman on April 25, 2008, 07:33:01 pm
Thank you for the very interestion information. I would like to do this, we have room for a lot more pigs then the 6 we have just now. You are talking euro what country are you in?.
Thank you again
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Hilarysmum on April 25, 2008, 08:31:15 pm
Hi we are in France, which is wonderful although has more red tape than DEFRA.  It was a way to cope with the high cotizations.  It works for me at present.  HM
Title: Re: Rear your own piglets idea
Post by: Wildman on April 27, 2008, 09:49:00 pm
Thank you for that,