The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: AndrewMawson on March 24, 2011, 10:48:41 pm
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Anyone had a sow inseminated by the AI man? Any idea what it costs? I don't have a boar, and Martha will need 'doing' in a couple of months - strikes me AI saves a lot of hassle taking her to the boar and having someone elses feed bill for a few weeks!
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AI is quite easy to do yourself. There have been a few threads on here about it, worth taking a look.
I have AI'd in the past and used Deerpark in NI for the semen. You give them a ring and they send it out for next day delivery.
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Not promoting another site but this is a really good article
http://pigsinfrance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=88
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That's a great article HM :)
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Hi
We use AI on two of our sows - and have been successful - mind you I had to sit on one as if in a saddle to stop her chasing my husband - (like riding a horse) only then could he administer the semen - but she liked it and it got results. The other sow was a bit sniffy about it but was receptive. We use Deerpark and they are really helpful.
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I read the french article and see they say a boar is unnecessary, but I and no commercial farmers would ever AI without a boar infront of the sow. The sight, sound and smell of a boar is very important in making AI work at its very best.
I suppose the trouble for a smallholder is that if you are going to need a boar then you might as well use it to serve your sows, hence there would be no point in the extra cost of AI and doing it.
There used to be a product called "Boar Mate" that could be squirted at a gilt/sow to imitate the boar smell(I have heard in some countries that it is not permitted before an arguement erupts and am unsure of UK legislation on this product and have rarely used it, and when I did, as with feed-back, it was a long time ago. In the 1980's I think).
Can this product or any other still be used as a replacement for a boar??????????
What were your litter sizes like??? Did you only AI them once or twice(am and am or pm and pm, etc.,)?
AI should also not be squeeze in but should be sucked in by the sow if the process is being done correctly, so did you have to suck or squeeze the AI in???
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Hi Stevie
We are talking about pigs kept in open paddocks here. I have no experience with barn or intensively reared pigs. For our two experienced Berkshire sows (both have been served by a boar with previous owner) we have AI'd, a boar was certainly not required. We do not use any other 'artificial aids '! The two sows have different 'needs' so I will take you through them
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Sow 1. Comes on regular heat and is very receptive but likes to have someone 'sitting' on her back during the process. We know her well and my wife does this while I am attending to business at the back. She will stand for around 10 mins before she gets bored. I have normally got most of the bottle in by this time. She gets 3 servings AM/PM/AM or PM/AM/PM driven by the arrival of the semen from Deerpark. I squeeze the bottle lightly.
Her first litter for us was 17 of which 13 were delivered live. She is now due to deliver again in June following another successful AI but manage one bottle this time so it will be interesting to see the results but to date she has not returned to serve.
Sow 2. Comes on heat and is very playful, she is better with a boar. (It must be the foreplay) She will stand then move around and I have to follow her often losing contact between the catheta and the bottle which just gets re-connected once I catch up with her. She again gets three servings although with the process described above, she often only gets half a bottle and a lot gets lost. I really have to squeeze the bottle.
Her first AI litter for us was 8 all delivered live. She has recently been with a boar and has just given us 11 healthy piglets.
Have not used AI on a gilt.
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well it is a mater of preference the real deal V turkey baster
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"... likes to have someone 'sitting' on her back during the process. We know her well and my wife does this while I am attending to business at the back ..... Thank God for our boar George
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well it is a mater of preference the real deal V turkey baster
Seeing as you've choosen to make this remark I will give you this answer Lillian.
You are asuming that I have only been involved in intensive pig farming, but that is not the case as for along, long time I've done outdoor pig farming aswell.
So now look who's information is incorrect.
Something I have learnt from our last encounter, never presume that what your saying is right, unless you are 100% sure! :wave:
What you should have done is learnt from my mistake.
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stevie G where are you comming from eh!!!!!!
there was no comment in my post to you so why infer that i am
there are some on hear the last time they cracked a smile was when the midwife skelped there buttocks :o :o :o
get real and stop thinking that there are subliminal messages :wave: :wave:
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Hi
We use AI on two of our sows - and have been successful - mind you I had to sit on one as if in a saddle to stop her chasing my husband - (like riding a horse) only then could he administer the semen - but she liked it and it got results. The other sow was a bit sniffy about it but was receptive. We use Deerpark and they are really helpful.
Nelson, if what your doing works then don't change it!
Its the way you are going about it that makes it work.
Posted a long tread and have lost it, and as its late, I am now heading for my bed.
This says it all to me though really! Click on Pigsinfrance and scroll down to the bottom of the article.
A gilt/sow standing rigid on the otherside of an electric fence, with 2 boars standing on the otherside!!!!
Need I say more!
AI is easier with a boar present( unless, of course, you have two people in on the act).
From the Turkey baster/real thing. :wave:
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Stevie G - what are you going on about ???
How can Lillian saying it's someone's personal choice whether to AI or use natural service have anything to do with you, what you've said or how much experience you've got ::)
Please take time to read threads properly before you post replies - you're turning almost every thread into a warzone :-\
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[Nelson, if what your doing works then don't change it!
This says it all to me though really! Click on Pigsinfrance and scroll down to the bottom of the article.
A gilt/sow standing rigid on the otherside of an electric fence, with 2 boars standing on the otherside!!!!
Need I say more!
Stevie G I scrolled down to the bottom of the article but could not see any boar. I am not being intentionally contentious just confused and I have to admit to having a few senior citizen moments.
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[Nelson, if what your doing works then don't change it!
This says it all to me though really! Click on Pigsinfrance and scroll down to the bottom of the article.
A gilt/sow standing rigid on the otherside of an electric fence, with 2 boars standing on the otherside!!!!
Need I say more!
Stevie G I scrolled down to the bottom of the article but could not see any boar. I am not being intentionally contentious just confused and I have to admit to having a few senior citizen moments.
I obviously thought I had scrolled to the bottom and it was only half way down.
I refering to the two ginger boars on the other side of the electric fence and the sow standing rigid.
You wouldn't get a sow to stand there too long otherwise, certainly not without alot of back pressure.
Its by far much easier with a boar, than without.
And of course even easier if the boar does it for you himself!
Cost is the biggest draw back(pardon the pun). ;D :wave:
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stevie G where are you comming from eh!!!!!!
there was no comment in my post to you so why infer that i am
there are some on hear the last time they cracked a smile was when the midwife skelped there buttocks :o :o :o
get real and stop thinking that there are subliminal messages :wave: :wave:
I realised after that you were talking about the difference between natural and Artificial, not outdooor and intensive farming.
Never heard it called "turkey basting" before.
Just ignore what I've said if you already haven't. :wave:
My mistake once again.
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I have been giving training to smallholders in using AI for the last year.
It works well if you read the signs of you sow or gilt.
I have seen good success rates without boars - catching on first time and numbers in excess of 10 per litter. I am training on this subject in June in the west mids area see ADAS training days - altenatively if you would like my ppt on this then please let me know and I will send it to you.
Good luck!
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Hi Mrs Pig - would love a copy of the ppt. Thanks in advance. :)
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if you would like my ppt on this then please let me know and I will send it to you.
Yes please!
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I read the french article and see they say a boar is unnecessary, but I and no commercial farmers would ever AI without a boar infront of the sow. The sight, sound and smell of a boar is very important in making AI work at its very best.
I suppose the trouble for a smallholder is that if you are going to need a boar then you might as well use it to serve your sows, hence there would be no point in the extra cost of AI and doing it.
There used to be a product called "Boar Mate" that could be squirted at a gilt/sow to imitate the boar smell(I have heard in some countries that it is not permitted before an arguement erupts and am unsure of UK legislation on this product and have rarely used it, and when I did, as with feed-back, it was a long time ago. In the 1980's I think).
Can this product or any other still be used as a replacement for a boar??????????
What were your litter sizes like??? Did you only AI them once or twice(am and am or pm and pm, etc.,)?
AI should also not be squeeze in but should be sucked in by the sow if the process is being done correctly, so did you have to suck or squeeze the AI in???
I used Boar Mate when I A.I.'d my gilt - in the field. I'm really not sure how effective it was, as we were all first timers :)
But one thing I did find after using it was that female dogs found me irresistable ;D
I must say I decided that A.I. wasn't for me, got a boar & then found my gilt was in pig ::) I hadn't even tried my other gilt at this point.
I would use it again, especially now there's a new bloodline at Deerpark. I'm not sure if I would A.I. a gilt again..........though I might just change my mind................
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well it is a mater of preference the real deal V turkey baster
No its not Robert its about getting the best genetics you possibly can at the cheapest price.
Stimulation is also a very important part! :thumbsup:
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there must be nothing going on in oz today for Stevie to trawl this back up
at one time you could argue the best genetics line but i doubt that is relevent you have to have the best genetics on both sides to advance the breeding further
stimulation i have seen a complete lack of it many times the boar or sow just getting unloaded and nailed wham bam to late to complain mam :farmer:
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there must be nothing going on in oz today for Stevie to trawl this back up
at one time you could argue the best genetics line but i doubt that is relevent you have to have the best genetics on both sides to advance the breeding further
stimulation i have seen a complete lack of it many times the boar or sow just getting unloaded and nailed wham bam to late to complain mam :farmer:
If only all AI was that easy.
No such luck! ::)
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We used AI on our Tamworth and Saddleback maiden gilts this year with semen from Deerpark, and it worked first time for both of them - both had litters of 10, no deaths or stillbirths. For each gilt we used the three doses, am/pm/am, or pm/am/pm, depending on when they first responded to back pressure AND a single spray of Boarmate. It is absolutely brilliant - when they are ready they will stand like a frozen statue for 10 minutes. If they are not ready they either ignore the spray or get faintly annoyed. The key thing as far as I am concerned is to know exactly what to expect, and what day, by closely recording all the miniscule signs of change in your pig's vulva three weeks earlier. With a black skinned pig the changes in the vulva when oestrus is happening are much less obvious, but they are there if you check very regularly, at least twice a day. Then you should get the timing right, which is critical, and an awful nuisance if you think they will be ready on a Monday morning. Do you order from Deerpark on Friday, and possibly get it a bit too early on Saturday, or order on Monday, and possibly get it too late on Tuesday? Deepark, by the way, are 100% efficient about despatch - even if you ask for some as late as midday it will definitely be sent out that same day and arrive without fail early the following morning. Good luck anyway - Tamsaddle
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Then you should get the timing right, which is critical, and an awful nuisance if you think they will be ready on a Monday morning. Do you order from Deerpark on Friday, and possibly get it a bit too early on Saturday, or order on Monday, and possibly get it too late on Tuesday? Deepark, by the way, are 100% efficient about despatch - even if you ask for some as late as midday it will definitely be sent out that same day and arrive without fail early the following morning. Good luck anyway - Tamsaddle
When I was expecting Meg to be standing on Bank Holiday Monday ::), Deerpark said they'd post the semen on Thursday, so I would definitely have it before I needed it, and that it would keep without harm for up to a week.
Sadly they did not tell me that I should keep it on the cool side of room temperature, and absolutely not refrigerated, so I just popped the whole box in the fridge when it arrived, and left it there until I needed it. Needless to say that insemination failed completely, but I got her the next time. (And yes, this was May, so it was Bank Holiday again!)
Moral - order in plenty of time, it'll keep for up to a week, but do not put the box / bottles in the fridge!
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Our local vets run day courses on fertility and AI maybe worth looking into. We used to AI all out horses and it was far less hassle than doing it the natural way!
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Then you should get the timing right, which is critical, and an awful nuisance if you think they will be ready on a Monday morning. Do you order from Deerpark on Friday, and possibly get it a bit too early on Saturday, or order on Monday, and possibly get it too late on Tuesday? Deepark, by the way, are 100% efficient about despatch - even if you ask for some as late as midday it will definitely be sent out that same day and arrive without fail early the following morning. Good luck anyway - Tamsaddle
When I was expecting Meg to be standing on Bank Holiday Monday ::), Deerpark said they'd post the semen on Thursday, so I would definitely have it before I needed it, and that it would keep without harm for up to a week.
Sadly they did not tell me that I should keep it on the cool side of room temperature, and absolutely not refrigerated, so I just popped the whole box in the fridge when it arrived, and left it there until I needed it. Needless to say that insemination failed completely, but I got her the next time. (And yes, this was May, so it was Bank Holiday again!)
Moral - order in plenty of time, it'll keep for up to a week, but do not put the box / bottles in the fridge!
AI semen should be stored at 17 degrees C and rocked ever so gently(like a baby) and turned over atleast once a day to ensure the diluent(nutrients) that feeds the seamen are evenly spread to ensure longer life. Room temperature is too high and makes the seamen hyper active causing it to us up all the nutrient and once that happens they die.
A special box for its storeage can be purchased for this purpose. And for the box to function at its best it would be best to keep this box at room temperature. :wave:
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AI semen should be stored at 17 degrees C and rocked ever so gently(like a baby) and turned over atleast once a day to ensure the diluent(nutrients) that feeds the seamen are evenly spread to ensure longer life. Room temperature is too high and makes the seamen hyper active causing it to us up all the nutrient and once that happens they die.
A special box for its storeage can be purchased for this purpose. And for the box to function at its best it would be best to keep this box at room temperature. :wave:
This made me laugh, Stevie G. I don't know where you are but I do know you are certainly not in north Cumbria. :D We haven't had temperatures as high 17 C at all all year! (Well maybe an hour or two, twice or perhaps thrice, in the full sun and sheltered from the wind.)
But yes, the semen from Deerpark comes in such a box and they say to store it in a cool but not cold room - not in your living room with the wood stove going and not in the fridge.
I didn't know about turning it (like incubating eggs, eh? :D) - I'll do that next time.
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it is quite obvious that pig seamen differs from bovine seamen the bovine seamen is stored in flasks that contain liquid nitrogen any thoughts on this one or maybe i am missing something here :farmer:
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it is quite obvious that pig seamen differs from bovine seamen the bovine seamen is stored in flasks that contain liquid nitrogen any thoughts on this one or maybe i am missing something here :farmer:
I guess the bovine semen is frozen; Deerpark send fresh porcine semen out. Their website says they do do frozen as well, for overseas, but I assume fresh is better as they don't ask you your preference.
BTW - I am unable to stop myself grinning like a silly schoolgirl every time anyone spells it 'seamen'. ;) :D Sorry!
I was particularly giggly as I read:
... rocked ever so gently(like a baby) and turned over atleast once a day to ensure the diluent(nutrients) that feeds the seamen are evenly spread to ensure longer life. Room temperature is too high and makes the seamen hyper active causing it to us up all the nutrient and once that happens they die.
;) :D ;D
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well sally do you not remember captain pugwash with seaman staines and master bates :D :farmer:
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well sally do you not remember captain pugwash with seaman staines and master bates :D :farmer:
And at every possible oppurtunity they kept coming ashore. A messy business for all involved. :D
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well sally do you not remember captain pugwash with seaman staines and master bates :D :farmer:
Why aye :D