The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: frustratedfarmer on March 22, 2011, 08:43:40 pm
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:'(
I wanted to see how castration worked with the little ring things- I have no experience of this as you can see.. looked on Youtube and a video showed a fully awake goat kid have it's scrotum cut, the testicle pulled out..cut..then I couldn't watch anymore. PLEASE tell me if I end up with male goats this is not what I will have to do?? It MUST have hurt?? :( :(
Are there any videos showing how it's done using the rings?
Claire
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You can either castrate with rubber rings within the first week of life, or it can be done by the vet later in life, but I am not sure if the billy smell will go with the balls...
Also if you are talking pygmies I would imagine that everything is pygmy-sized so you may struggle to fit a ring to a very young billy kid.
It is done the same way as for lambs, if you have a friendly sheep farmer nearby you might be able to go and watch/learn. It is something that comes with practice, and yes it is quite painful for the little fellow. My lambs are usually up and suckling again within the hour, and it is somehting that I do out of necessity, also to my male goat kids. If the kid is being disbudded then it is easy for the vet to slip on the ring while the kid is under anaesthetic.
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So this video wasn't showing the norm? The kid apparently hadn't had any anaesthetic- seemed barbaric :(
Thanks for that info :)
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my husband always rings the lambs, there is a bit of skill required, and he does hate the job. the lambs look a little uncomfortable for a day then they are back to normal. I presume male kids are ringed the same.
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After trying and trying my first pygmy's were ringed by the vet - they looked uncomfortable but recovered pretty quickly - since then I have not plucked up the courage to try again - I know it's pathetic just just can't do it so I taken all male kids just before 3 months and have them surgically done - anasthetic - ear tags done at the same time and a lot less stress for me and the kid - I can manage all poo and goo but pain is just not me and I guess I don't have enough kids to get the practice and feel confident - each to their own I say
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Starting to think the video I partially watched is NOT the norm then- this was being done with a scalpal blade... :'( :'(
I reckon it would need to be a vet job for me too- especially in the beginning anyway...
Claire :)
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At the vets a very sharp blade was involved (saw it all) but they were given drugs to make them totally sleepy but not unconsios so after they got home they didn't seem to bother too much and were back to their mad selves in a couple of hours
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This video showed a couple of guys holding the kid down- on the ground while another guy...did what he did- I actually had the sound turned off and so glad I did because when I read the comments below it seems the kid was in a lot of pain. Starting to think this wasn't even done in Britain but somewhere where people have very little money so don't do the ring/vet way. ???
Claire
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Your probably right - re the vocals - the vet told me (sounds right) that goats are very vocal and cry at the slightest signs of discomfort and I usually think they are in pain but she assured me it's more of a 'I don't like what your doing to me'
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do they have balls from day one then? our ponies have sometimes had to wait 18mths to be done cos theyv held on to them. we'l be castrating for first time but have shepherd showing me... :-[
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So far my male Pygmy's have had - but they are so tiny I'm not sure the ring method is always successful as a friend who does ring has had a few to the vets later to get surgically done - or possibly that was just technique but she has done it for a long time and I believe ringing must get done by day 7 so no time to wait until they grow!!
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Yes goats testicles are descended from birth. It is vitally important - if ringing- to make sure BOTH testicles are in the ring.
I prefer to have mine surgically castrated by the Vet when they are disbudded... it prevents mistakes and is much kinder to the kid. Ringing can cause considerable pain when done by somebody who is inexperienced.
My Vet charges a miniscule amount for the castration as it is only time.
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I was going to ask about vet prices for castration- our local vet we have been with for YEARS but they are known for being pricey.
Should I expect to pay about the same as a dog or is it a much quicker op?
Thanks
Claire :)
(No where NEAR this stage but just want to all my homework)
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Ok- just phoned my local vet- it's not something he has done in a while but very helpful and full of info- he said it would be about £15/£20.
He also said the rings can sometimes be tricky cos their wee balls are so small :-[ :D
Does this price sound decent or should I "shop around"?
He advised me to look at the Defra website for welfare guidelines on age for castration etc
cheers!
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Can't find my receipt from the boys last year but I'm sure it was £10 + drugs which made it about £18 each so your's sounds about right. I 99.9% sure ringing before 7 days and surgically at any age but as mine kids were going to new homes they were done just before 3 months with time to heal before leaving me.
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Just copied this from Defra-
(4) Under the Protection of Animals Acts 1911 to 1988 (in Scotland, the Protection of Animals (Scotland) Act 1912 to 1988), it is an offence to castrate a goat, which has reached the age of 2 months without the use of an anaesthetic. Furthermore the use of a rubber ring or other device to restrict the flow of blood to the scrotum is only permitted without an anaesthetic if the device is applied during the first week of life. Under the Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966, as amended, only a veterinary surgeon or veterinary practitioner may castrate a goat after it has reached the age of 2 months, or dehorn or disbud a goat, except the trimming of the insensitive tip of an ingrowing horn which, if left untreated, could cause pain or distress.
So yeah surgery any age as long as anesthetic is used after they are 8 weeks.
What age do people have them done surgically? I see that ringing must be done within first 7 days.
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I have dairy goats, so larger than pygmies, and either the vet slips on the ring during disbudding (at no extra cost) or I do it myself (I have a polled one just now, so no disbudding), as I also do my sheep boys.
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We've never had one done surgically, always ring instead. There is a knack to it, and ALWAYS check that both bits are in the ring!
Beth
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I have had a look at Finley again today. Being a pygmy he is so tiny, it is impossible to ring him before 7 days. Last years male pygmy was the same, we had to wait until there was something to ring, if you get the gist!! Kid suffered no ill effects with being past 7 days. Lay down a few minutes, then he was up and off up to his usual mischief. I have no experience of sugical castration, although one of my rescue goats was done just before I got him. Vet did it in the field apparantly.
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It depends on the vet and how his practice is et up. Mine would prefer to do it in the practice, but I have seen them doing it to Alpacas in the field (under anaestetic as well).
With Pygmies I would think it would be easier to bring them into surgery, as they can be safely transported in a large dog carrier.
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yes I took my to the surgery - first thing in the morning - done and ear tags in as I'm a coward when it come to goat cry's - I was in with them, saw it all, did feel a bit sorry for them but by the time we got home 10 min drive and they hear their mum they were fine
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We also have ours castrated and ear tagged under a light anaesthetic at the vet's. We have had some problems with urinary calculi in our males (I blame it on the very hard water round here but maybe it's just bad luck) so we now wait as long as we dare to get this done(usually about 3 months) but then we are worrying that the precocious little devils will be impregnating their mums and their sisters.
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That's all really helpful- I mean it might be a couple of years before I have a couple of pygmies..and then another 2 years plus after that before any kids :D but I like all the planning and reading! The internet is a bit of a mine field when it comes to info and sometimes it's good just to get solid advice from people who are actually doing it.
Claire :)
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The problem is with so many pet owners now owning pygmy goats(Not decrying that but there is a downside)they now require the vet to do even the most simple things...even trimming feet!!!! The vets will soon have the monopaly on everything(Good little earner at the prices they charge.
Dis-budding went up over night from £2.50/£3.00 to £15 when it was made illegal by anyone else.In the days when experianced goat keepers passed on their knowledge I never had horn scurs,then I had to take the kids to the vets and for an extortanate price I had the honour of almost every goat with scurs(Even had a very nice unicorn!)and its no good the vet saying bring them back and they will redo them for free,that is far more stressful and dangerous
It will soon come to the day when we aren't allowed to do anyhing for ourselves and skills will be lost...very good for vets I daresay who will have done a whole afternoon coarse on goats rather than he owner who has 40yrs of knowledge
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Totally agree! Although for someone like me who will be completely inexperienced it's probably best for the goats if the castration is done surgically and for the most pain free :)
Anything else though I can do as quite practical and used to injecting etc etc
I'm not sure about the whole disbudding thing- on one hand it seems most Pygmies are not done but then you read how dangerous it is to leave the horns on but I'm guessing that's just for the larger breeds digressing now... ;D I personally prefer the look of them entire with their horns.
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I would say I'm not experienced or inexperienced as having had goat for 4 years its not ages but I do a lot of observing and know each one pretty well, I have no problem with injecting, hoof trimming, we don't disbud and I feel they should be left with their horns - I like them, but just shake when it comes to castration and tagging - it's irrational but there you go. Maybe I could get over it but have no one to teach me.
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Tagging is easy peasy to learn - practise on orange peel first if you're really nervous. I'm sure there must be peops on here close to you that will either let you go over to theirs to watch next time they're tagging or maybe come across & teach you on yours :goat:.
Castration - :-\ personally I'd leave it to the vet. But it's a matter of cost/experience/squeemishness !!!
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Tagging is blissfully easy- we used to tattoo, and when you see that process, you realise how easy tagging is! My OH saw tattooing last year for the first time, and was absolutely horrified!
Castration by ringing is easy, but not surgicially! That's for the vet to do.
Beth
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I know what to do, where to do it - did the first 2 kids we had but they screamed and screamed and now I just have a mental block about it - they go to the vet to be caustrated and she tags at the same time while they are doppy no problem!! What I mean about the teaching thing is - yes I can tag an orange fine - and after the local farmer came to help tag lambs last year I will do the lambs this year as they didn't bat an eyelid - it was the sreams from the first two that did it - and I know they are vocal - it's all in my head - I'm mad
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I held all the heads of a friend's lambs that were being tagged for slaughter a while back- her daughter did the tagging and I was quite impressed but...it was the crunch :o :o !! but it wary quick and they didn't seem to bother too much- wondering if goat's ears are thinner or not. She certainly seemed to have to press really hard!! Was quite comic with my head practically up my friend's bum and her 16 year old daughter tagging away quite merrily!! ;D
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Maybe the pygmy's are more sensitive- the dairy goats kids don't bother that much. We did the male kid this week as he went away on Thursday, and he gave a little start, but didn't yell at all.
Beth
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My boys will be going to the vets at 4 months, which was what the breeder recommended. Ive already asked about the fees as I wanted to know that it wouldnt be a shock before we got the boys. Its around 15€ for each one, which I didnt think was too bad. Ill be dreading the day I take them, and I do mean I. My hubby wont go to the vets with the animals if he knows that they are going to endure any pain. Especially castration. Probably brings back too many of his own painful memories. Ha Ha !!