The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Helencus on January 08, 2011, 04:19:07 pm
-
You're not going to believe it Aggie has milk ... ! Here we go again folks :-)))
-
Oh me, oh my ! I'm worn out just thinking about you ;D ;D ;D
All the same applies (saves my fingers lol!) ;) Good luck mrs, not long till you've more :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig:
-
round two, GOOD LUCK, thinking about you all, :pig: :hshoe: :wave:
-
You will be sooooo tired starting a new job on Monday!!!! Hope No2 goes as well as the first one. Anke
-
Number 2 just out! It's all happening here again!!!
-
ding dong, round two!
good luck Aggie for the rest ... :)
-
4 so far all well
-
oh gosh this is nerve wracking :hshoe:
-
GREAT ;D BRILLIANT ;D KEEM 'EM COMING ;)
I'm so glad you'll be able to get 2 good night's sleep before Monday - you'll need it !
:love: :pig: :love: :pig: :love: :pig: :pig: :pig:
-
i bet there is not much sleeping tonight, i bet Helen will be up and down checking everyone, adrenaline will be running very high i expect, I'm nervous and excited for her, its enthralling
-
Bloody hell 10 so far and no placenta yet! All well
-
Aggie's obviously decided anything Kimmie can do, she can do better ;)
If it looks like the whole placenta is there once she delivers, you don't have to give the oxy, but if you're not sure best to play it safe !
Go on the girls ! ;D ;D ;D
-
So we have 11 again! Thankfully all of these are fine. Given oxy as doesn't look like all of the placenta, no prob at all. Waiting for her to finish but seems Ok she's in a trance.
Sadly kimmies little runt just died. We did our best could do no more. Doubt I'll sleep tonight too much excitement!!
-
congratualations im so pleased for you ALL (sorry about the runt) :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :pig: :bouquet: :wave:
-
Damn aggie not so keen on babies no friendly grunts and not very happy with them. She is letting them feed. Help!
-
If you've got stresnil give her some of that, it'll chill her out a bit, especially if she's being aggresive/snappy. She could be a bit fretful because not all of the afterbirth has come out and being her first time she's a bit overwhelmed by the whole thing.
If she is letting them feed it should work itself out - just keep a wee eye on her for the time being.
Great results for first time farrowing for both girls (and you) and such a shame, but relief at the same time, for the wee runt - at least you know she's not suffering now.
HTH
Karen x
-
Thanks Karen no strensil but she is stll delivering the afterbirth so I think that's what it is. I'll stay with her tonight to keep an eye on things. She's letting them feed ok just getting stressed when they squeal.
It is a relief re the runt I hated to see her fade away like that with nothing I could do. Very sad. So little kip for me again tonight I guess! Oh well :-))
-
Once they've all found their way to teats the squeeling will stop and once they've had a feed and have found their way to the heatlamp, they should (hopefully) sleep. At this point, if she's awake you could try her with a small bite to eat if she's not had much today (treats like apples, fruit etc especially) and make sure she has plenty of water - they drink gallons when they're nursing. This should hopefully settle her down and once she gets used to them she'll be okay. Pigs are a bit like humans I think, they don't always take to motherhood straight away - but as long as she's not biting at them or being aggresive all should be fine.
Hope you manage to get at least a bit of sleep (but it's easy to stay awake when you're watching piglets ;) ;D)
-
She seems a lot calmer now she is shivering like Kim did though but won't panic as she's had oxy. Just needed to sit with her and stroke her and talk to her. Piglets have had a good feed so when aggie is ready to get up I'll pop them in the creep under the lamp and give her something nice. Thanks again Karen can't tell you how much I appreciate your support x :bouquet:
-
Sounds wonderful, but stressful, well done to you and Aggie. Hope you get a little sleep.
-
Very very stressful Aggie just had a little snap at one of them, not really badly but doesn't like them round her head when she lies down.. I'm so frightened to leave her alone with them. She normally very placid, I know farrowing can make them temperamental and she's happy to feed just doesn't want them round her head. Is she likely to be herself again tomorrow?
-
She should settle by tomorrow I would think. Have you got the heat lamp on ? If it's too high or not warm enough they'll be inclined to stick close to mum for heat. If it's possible to drop the height of the lamp slightly(without it being accessable for mum) it should heat up better and they'll be more likely to go to it. If it's clambering about looking for food that should settle too in a day or so, once they get the pecking order sorted (the most dominant tend to get the upper teats I think and it takes them a wee while to find their 'place') Give her a wee bit of time and reassurance - you know what first time mums are like, pigs are just the same ;)
Rebecca (7) who should REALLY be in bed, but wants to know everything ::) says mums are "just protective of their babies" lol!
-
Thanks Karen.. Right now I feel physically sick with stress.. :-( I'll stay with her all night if needs be.
I've lowered the lamp but this lit are voracious just font want to stop feeding. Poor love is knackered and shivering and they won't stayin the creep
-
Oh mrs ! I feel for you, it's awful when you're worried about them :(
If it was me (but I'm totally mad) I'd be in with a blanket for Aggie ::) Things will settle down in time and will definately seem better once you've had a sleep, you're just getting to the exhausted and panicky stage. As long as she's not distressed or being aggresive then you've really nothing to worry about. But that's easy for me to say, I'm not the one looking at my poor pig and feeling bad for her.
Note to self : Remeber all this when it's Adelaide doing it in a few weeks time ::)
I would've suggested a high sided box to force them to stay in one place (especially if you're going to be there) but if she's getting distressed when they squeel it's probably not a good idea.
Thinking of you xxx
-
I've had tocome away to go to the loo! So I managed to get them to go to sleep and popped some wood in to stop them getting out. My Oh is going mad at me as I've told him I'm staying with her tonight. It's called commitment and responsibility and I just can't leave her til I'm sure she's settled and isn't going to kill them.
-
I feel for you really do, over the past week my Sows have given birth and as I am still working things out could not relax at home and needed to be there with them. I have one Sow who has always been a bit jumpy and was doing the same as what yours is, stayed up there most of the night came home for 3 hours sleep and then went back, when i got back she was much more settled, i just kept the light off and watched from a far but near enough to come to the rescue if needed, it should pass over the next 12 hrs all the best , Karl
-
Please god you're right shes not being at all careful treading on them and now doesn't want to let them feed. I could cry.. Am I interfering too much? I keep letting them get to her when she's lay quietly but shesjust getting up now. I'm starting to think she's rejecting them.
-
If they're feeding constantly she'll be sore, irritated and tired - I can't blame her for wanting to get away ;) I don't think she's rejecting them, just trying to get a bit of space maybe ?
If they've all fed, you could try keeping them back from her for a bit - but obviously if they start squeeling and she gets distressed it might not work.
Does her milk supply look as if it's getting low ? Any severe swelling or redness to any of her teats ? It might just be painfull for her and that's why she's moving ???
Short of going for the stresnil option (which I think you might need to consider if she keeps going like this) I'm running out of ideas :-[ so trying to get hold of OH @ work to see if he has any suggestions (he worked at a commercial piggery many moons ago and delt with lots of farrowings) I'll post as soon as I get hold of him, if he's anything further to suggest.
I wish I could help more Helen, sorry :-*
-
Okay - got hold of hubby ;D
He says stresnil too :-\ but given the fact it's the middle of the night and Sunday tomorrow that's not really an option - old fashioned tip alert :o
A couple of cans of stout (maybe beer/lager/cider if that's all you've got) has the same effect as stresnil - just to chillax her a bit ;)
It could be she's just overwhelmed by them all feeding, or maybe sore teats coupled with very sharp piglet teeth may be the cause (think that's why they tend to clip teeth in commercial set ups)
Oh honey, hope you're bearing up :-* :-* :-*
I'll be up for a wee while yet, so will check back soon.
-
God... So so stressed.. She lay down let some have a feed then one started wandering round her head .. I'm trying to back off so left things but she snapped at it. I've sent my son to the 24 hr garage for some guiness please god that helps her. How many cans she's a big girl?
-
Congratulations! This must be one of the most thrilling topics on the forum, we can practically feel the stress ourselves!! And it's incredibly interesting!
Good luck, hope Aggie settles down tomorrow and Kim is doing well, too. And good luck on Monday with the new job. :wave:
-
I'd start with 2, and if you think (after 30 mins or so) it's not made a difference then 1 more should do the trick - you don't want her drunk ;) Have a hot sugary cup of tea yourself (or a wee tipple) and when was the last time you had anything to eat ? Take extra care of yourself too Helen, not just your pigs !
-
Thank god she's settling! 3 cans of guinness later.. Still doesn't like to hear them squeal but calmer about it now. I can tell their teeth hurt her she goes rigid when they suckle.
Karen I can not express how grateful I am for your help. I have learned so much this weekend.. Not sure the way I'm feeling now that I ever want to do it again mind you
This should be a bit of a cautionary tale to others. No matter how docile your sow is she may indeed change when farrowing and you should be prepared. To my regret I wasn't and if not for Karen things could've gone very differently. There is no substitute for experience the books do not prepare you for everything try to watch a birth or two don't think it's as easy as it sounds.. I now know it darn well isn't!
-
On a lighter note kimmie is doing beautifully a truly natural mommy. Hopefully Aggie will follow suit now. Fingers crossed.
-
Managed to get an hours sleep went back to check and she's doing better. Gave the girls a good feed and they seem fine. Sadly I think aggie managed to injure one of the piglets she snapped at it's just lying behid the farrowing rail and I think we will lose it. I tried to get it to put under the lamp but whilst she was okwith me in the pen she warned me away from the babies. Strange cause we have a good relationship but again I know they can get like that. I'm going to back off today and just let everyone settle down.
-
on the alcohol side it should be sweatheart stout even cattle like it when they see you comming with it they will hold there head up waiting to get it poured over there throat
now we are not great fans of books and this aspect is down to the individual concerned
pigs are like hummans some are fantastic mothers others are not and you have one of each
her piglets will learn not to get to close in time
you should be thankfull she did not eat them (this can and does happen)
when she is suckling she is in a trance and the squalling brings her out of it
the first 4 days are the worst
back to the alcohol side stout is recommended for milk production as well
have fun and wellcome to the not so airy fairy side of pigs
the shivering they are chilled that is what they do to keep warm with our hampshires (two heat lamps) this is the first time piglets have not shivered
-
Just seen this CONGRATULATIONS .
-
Congratulations, and well done. Just think, if you had not been as dedicated to your pig and know her so well, you may have lost more, or even all the piglets. So I think you deserve a big well done!
Beth
-
Morning :wave: I stayed up last night waiting for news, but had to give up at 2.30am (lightweight that I am ;))
I'm so glad she's settled and I'm so glad you're all doing fine ;D
The girls will find their own way and the piglets will soon get into the swing of things, but it's nerve wracking beyond belief when it's all happening and terrifying when it goes a bit wrong in the middle of the night !
As Lillian has said - it's not all hearts and flowers (especially with maiden gilts, next time they'll know what they're doing and should make it a bit easier for you) I know what you mean about not being sure if you want to go through it / put your girls through it again ;) But you'll be fine - you've done the hardest bit now :-*
My wee Kune Kune is a superb mum, and she doesn't mind you lifting piglets (but I think Kunes are one of the few breeds that tolerate this, not so sure about the rest) every pig is different - but all mothers are the same. Fiercely protective of their young :o It's the one thing that was drummed into me as a kid, I could go in with the cows and do pretty much anything with them (aged pre-12) but was NOT to go anywhere near them when they had calves at foot.
Providing there doesn't seem to be anything wrong try to give them a few days without too much intervention and things will work themselves out.
Are you going to give the piglets iron ? That's a whole other operation in itself ::) but you can avoid having to go through it by putting in a lump of earth so they can nibble the soil.
Have a rest and a well deserved pat on the back mrs ! and welcome to the world of breeding pigs :-*
Enjoy your piglets :love:
Karen x
-
Congratulations :) :) :)
-
Thanks all. It's still a bit stressful she's not aggressive now but she isn't a contented mum at all, she's not laying down to feed much as they are making her sore I think at least she isn't trying to bite them though. Mind I have given her another guinness to keep her calm and as Lillian said it helps with milk flow. Anything else other than plenty of food and water to help with milk? She doesn't look as milky as Kim at all so probably why they're hassling her to be fed. Kim is the model mum rolls over beautifully grunting happily whilst feeding aggie isn't so keen at all. the difference in the litters is so noticeable kims piglets are all fat fluffy and contented Aggies are fretful.
I really fear this is a 50/50 for this litter sadly, I hope I'm wrong. My father in law is going to come up over the next few days while I'm at work to check she's staying calm if not he can top up her pint!
Seriously though is there an alcohol limit for pigs? If she has a couple of cans a day for the next 3 days would that be an issue?
-
cant help with your alcohol question .... just wanted to say congrats and well done you for being such a committed pig-keeper.
Can you get hold of any goats milk? to top up their feeds? or lamblac? (if Aggie will let you near.)
ours farrowed really close together and as there were only 5 in total (some of Maud's were mummified) Mildred took over the feeding of all of them in the end. And they began on solid food really quickly...
But with a whole football games' worth, thats not really an option for your girls is it ;)
thinking of you
:)
-
Thanks LB Aggie wouldnt let me feed them I'm afraid. If it'd work and if needs be Kim could in theory feed 4 more but don't want to upset the AppleCart there. I guess I have to see how this plays out now..I don't think I can do much more unfortunately.
-
Is there any sign of mastitus or inflamation of her teats Helen ? This could be making it doubly painful for her to feed.
Oxytocin usually brings the milk in, it might be possible to give another shot to see if that helps - but check with a vet first cos I'm not 100% sure ???
I don't think a couple of cans would make much of a difference, but haven't personal experience to draw on, maybe Lillian know's more ? I'd expect that within a couple of days she should settle down to motherhood, providing the feeding issue is sorted.
You can also get stuff to help build up the piglets https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/litter-care-240ml-p-196.html (https://www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk/litter-care-240ml-p-196.html) but try to get hold of it asap - your vet might have it ? It's a quick squirt down the throat job.
HTH Thinking of you,
Karen x
-
If mum wont let you feed them individually have you thought of putting down a shallow dish of milk replacer in a creep area for them. Piglets will very quickly learn to lap it up and they should still feed off mum aswell.
-
She's lay down to feed tonight and seemed ok with it. Can't see any swelling or anything think she's just not in the swing yet. The piglet that looked injured seems ok tonight so things seem a little better with me backing off and letting her get on with it. A few drinks for me tonight I can honestly say this has been one of the most stressful weekends of my life.
I've also ordered a masterject and will phone to get the litter care tomorrow so I can perhaps get a priority delivery.
Hopefully the worst has passed now and I can start my new job tomorrow with a less stressed head but knowing these 2 girls something else will crop up tomorrow that worries me. In terms of iron I never answered that question, I had planned to put a sod of earth in for them but couldn't find out when is best to do this. When do others give this?
Karen again thanks so much you truly are a hero member.
-
you can cover her teats with mud that does the same
-
Thanks Lillian I'll do it when they're all settled. What about the booze would you say it's ok to give her a few cans for the next few days?
-
dont give her more than yourself
-
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Oh, there's no way a KK could drink as much as me (when I get the opportunity ;))
You can put the sod of earth in anytime from now.
Goodluck for tomorrow, hope the job goes well xx
-
Thanks have to say I can neck several pints given the chance so that's hard to judge :-)) I'll just give her 2 or 3 a day for the next little while so she settles in calmly. Seems to be better again tonight so here's hoping.
-
Keeping fingers crossed for you with all your piggies and with your new job, GOOD LUCK on both counts :hshoe:
-
Congratulations. I checked in earlier today to see how you got on, anyway only now got time to reply. Seems to have been a busy weekend - but at least they were both sensible and farrowed BEFORE you started your new job, and it is not like lambing, going on for weeks...
Hope No2 will get herself and her piglets sorted, I have got a ewe that tries to but away her lambs for a few days, so I have to hold them onto her and keep them in a pen next to her, but after a few days she starts calling for them, and then she accepts them and is one of my best ewes, never looses her lambs... but always loopy for at least a couple of days after the birth... so you get them in all kinds of animals...
All the best for your new job!!! Anke.
-
Thanks Faith I'm hoping we've turned the corner with Aggie. I'm really attached to my girls but if she can't raise a litter she'd be a very expensive pet and that's just not sensible. So here's hoping she's going to warm up to and stay warm to being a mom otherwise I might have to make a very very hard decision and frankly I'd be gutted. She's getting better so fingers crossed shes figuring it out now.
Thanks Anke seems like others have said some animals just take a little time. If she rears these successfully then next time ( maybe :-)) I'd know how to cope with her for a few days, if she doesn't then it wouldn't be right to breed her again, not fair to her or me.
-
But you must be in England (getting some beer late in the night)- in Scotland you nowadays cannot buy any alcohol in between 10pm and 10am... I suppose they did not think of desperate pig owners when drawing up this legislation...
-
I'm in Leicestershire and frankly thank god for 24 hr garages that sells alcohol. 3 cans of Guinness later and she was calm... Mind 3 would chillax me too. ;D
-
I'm in Leicestershire and frankly thank god for 24 hr garages that sells alcohol. 3 cans of Guinness later and she was calm... Mind 3 would chillax me too. ;D
-
I'm hoping we've turned the corner with Aggie. I'm really attached to my girls but if she can't raise a litter she'd be a very expensive pet and that's just not sensible. So here's hoping she's going to warm up to and stay warm to being a mom otherwise I might have to make a very very hard decision and frankly I'd be gutted.
Sounds as though she is settling, anyway, but give her a second chance before making that difficult decision. Next time you will be forwarned. Also she will be experienced and probably a perfect mum.
Congratulations on the babies and the new job. Hope all goes well.
-
She seems to be doing well this morning, getting the hang of it all now. It's funny I'm at my new job(iPhone access to Internet) all I can think about is are they all ok... Feels just like when I left the kids at nursery for the first time! What a daft bat I am.
-
Good luck with the piglets and job too.
I heartily agree with HM. Definitely give her a second chance.
I had one gilt who really wasn't a very good Mum the first time and needed a lot of help....and understanding! (And large vet bills). I was advised to give her a second chance, and I'm really glad I did. She went on to have a litter of 12 and was a perfect Mum second time around.
-
I think I will too she's starting to shape up nicely now thankfully.
-
sighs of relief all over the forum i think, so pleased for you, its been an incredible journey this week end, thank you for sharing it, i have learnt so much.
hope the new job is going ok, sure everyone will be glad to see you when you get home, :wave:
-
Believe me it was no problem without this forum and particularly HappyHippy I'd have alot of dead piglets im sure so thank god for TAS and HH!
-
Congratulations! hope the new job is going well xx
-
I'm so relieved to hear that everything's settling down Helen - such a relief ! And hey, I only sat at a pc and typed - YOU are the one who made sure those piggies were okay :-*
Now, aren't you supposed to be working ? ::) lol! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
You made sure I had a chance to help Karen, made all the difference having a lifeline. Yes I'm working really hard doing 1st day reading. Sending me to sleep lol ;D
-
I've been following this all weekend, couldn't stop checking the postings! How's Aggie doing now, is she getting used to motherhood yet?
:love: :pig: :love:
-
Yes she's settling in to it nicely now eve. I'm still a little nervous everytime they're round her head but she has shown absolutely no more signs of aggression since just after they were born thankfully. Once they're another few days old I'll stop the guinness (weekend when im here all day) but for now it's keeping her chilled and it's not hurting things.
Kimmie continues to do well as well, think she wonders what all the fuss was about ;D
-
Been following this over the last few days, I'm so glad for you it has turned out well. You are a dedicated owner, well done!!!
-
Thanks scotelf, my take on it is its my duty to do the best I can for them regardless of how much sleep it loses me or stress! I owe them that they're my responsibility we shouldn't have any animal unless we're prepared to do what it takes to do what's best for them. I regret I wasn't better prepared when things started to go wrong but thankfully with support we got through but I won't be caught out again and I will have supplies in next time.
I've still not relaxed about it all yet may take until they're a bit older for the sigh of relief stage but so far progressing nicely now.
-
far too traumatic a read, think i need a guiness too now and i only read the thread!!!
do we have pictures of the piglets yet to help us over the trauma???
-
I bet those pigs have no idea what they put us through! ;D
This must be the most famous, most read pig story on the internet! ;D
:love: :pig: :love:
-
Lol traumatic isn't the word! Will aim to get pics on at the weekend but I'm not great at getting them off my iPhone.. Will do my best though.
-
how are both mums and babies doing? :pig: :wave:
-
Wow - what an adventure- thanks for keeping us all in touch with the goings on :) And extremely glad it all seems to have worked out.
Is Kimmie a bit jealous that she's not getting any beer?? ;D
Tish
-
Lol they're all good tonight and between us kimmie had a sneaky pint to help her milk too. ;D :pig: :pig:
-
glad to hear that ....
have you told your pigs how famous they are?! all TAS rooting for them (no pun intended!)
:)
-
I wouldn't want their fame to go to their head so best not to tell them ;D
I'll do my best to get photos on at the weekend. Too dark in the morning and nights when I'm here to take any so will be the weekend. All of the piglets are so cute.. Some really nice stocky ones and all running around and squabbling like crazy.. It's great! ;D
-
I am so glad things sorted themselves out. Horrible feelings running riot in your head though, increased with tiredness. Hope you are enjoying your new job.
You get a hormonal wave during labour, no matter what breed. It is a good idea to keep some powdered glucose to put back much needed energy into her quickly. You don't get the rollercoaster of emotions then, don't want the piglets too demanding but human certainly can't have them etc. A nice bit of calming music playing helps both parties. A good mix of guinness and a top up of doughnuts go down well, as do some choice bits of fruit. If you know the farrowing due date you can normally keep some extras in for your girlie.
Oxycetalin is a good purchase, not too much and does make life a lot easier when needed. I think its castor oil that also acts as a milk let down if you massage it into teats. I have used it on sheep. Also agree with the mud on her tummy too, treats sore bits and the piglets get that much needed soil. I had one sow who had half sliced off one of her teats whilst heavily shifting during labour. That was so nasty as she had a big litter and they kept going to that teat and the healing process took forever. Bless her she was simply the best mum but it did test her patience.
-
Thanks Buddy some good tips for the future. Things are all fine now Aggie is as attentive a mom as Kim now and is much more relaxed with me near her piglets. Haven't attempted to pick one up but she's not worried if I stroke them and she's much more herself.
The job is good thanks.