The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Bees & Beekeeping => Topic started by: Fleecewife on January 07, 2011, 01:43:59 pm
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We don't keep hives as our bees live in the walls of our stone buildings and in holes in the ground. They really struggle up here so we try to provide them with as much support as we can, mainly in the form of places to nest (by not re-pointing the stonework, leaving rough areas etc) and trying to grow the right plants.
However, I don't have any specialist knowledge about wild bees so any advice on how to keep a succession of pollen and nectar plants on the go, especially in early spring, will be welcome. Also anything else we can do to help them, in return for the huge help they give us. :bee: :bfly: :ladybug:
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The bees in your walls will most likely be Solitary Bees - Masonry Bees, or Bumble Bees. They are gentle and a pleasure to have around. The bees we look after in hives are Honey Bees (although it's not unheard of for a swarm to settle in a wall cavity).
Quite a few plants are attractive to bees including: Fruit tree blossom, Verbena, Clover, Lavender, Tupelo, Dandelion, Aster, Hebe, Goldenrod, Sage and Thyme.
This website has some nice photos and might give you some idea of which plants you like (and will grow where you are):
http://www.beehappyplants.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69&Itemid=75
:bee:
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Thank you - I will take a look at that. Yes, the bees are the wild sort, in fact lots of sorts :D There are big bumble bees and cuckoo bees (not so good but we all have to live), all sorts of middle-sized bumble bees with various different markings, right down to tiny little furry ones which have communal nests and pale bums. There are no honey bees although occasionally a local beekeeper puts his hives about a mile from us. We haven't noticed mason bees and we even put up a cane thingy for them (a gift) but they never moved in)
We have all the plants you have suggested apart from tupelo (which i haven't heard of) and goldenrod which i can certainly get. We have plenty of fruit blossom early on and all the veggies and herbs. I also grow a large patch of helichrysum every year and that is always dripping with bees, usually the smaller ones, as well as butterflies and hoverflies. Their favourite I think is comfrey which on a still day buzzes and hums with activity. I leave my brassicas to go to seed as that provides a tasty treat for them but I was told that unless I have a whole field of the stuff I might as well not bother - but i do anyway. Late in the year they love Sedum spectabile, which I keep trying but it never lasts long here. Early on they like spring flowers but I need more.... One year we tried planting up a big area with a mix of wildflowers and any left over veg seed we had, plus phacelia - mostly all that came up was thistles !! The birds liked those. :bee: :bfly: :bee: :ladybug: :bee:
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The most favoured plant in my garden is a white flowered marjoram. Not only with the bees but with all sorts of butterflies also.
All the best
Sue
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Willows are fairly early in the year, Dandelions are great for bees too, clover (but they don't always go for it) as well as the ones others have already mentioned.
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White Clover is better than Red clover for Honey Bees (they only have little tongues). Bless.
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We have lots of willow and lots of dandelions too ;D Also white clover - red doesn't seem to grow here. So really our wild bees should be very well fed and supplied. But I feel that sometimes there just aren't any flowers for them. I think I will keep track this year of just what flowers there are and any gaps, then I can fill those gaps for next year. When I choose flower seeds for the garden I always go for the single options for the sake of the bees, to the extent that I don't even like double blooms any more. I think I am so worried because we are the only place around here and there are virtually no wild flowers on neighbouring fields and no hedgerows. So for the wild bees, we are it. :bee: :ladybug: :bee: :bfly: :bee:
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And don't forget Mature Ivy - a good source for late foraging......
:bee:
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Good point ! That's another box I can tick as we have a humungous ivy growing up the corner of the barn,covered in flowers later on. One year it blew off and took ages to get back to size, so I think I should start some more on other outbuildings. They do love it, don't they :bee:
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Do the wild bees make good honey or are they just disease carriers. Do beekeepers put them in to a deomestic hive or not or are they just smoked out and left to die?
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Do the wild bees make good honey or are they just disease carriers. Do beekeepers put them in to a deomestic hive or not or are they just smoked out and left to die?
What a very odd comment ??? Wild bees are part of the diversity of life in our world. They come in all shapes and sizes and help to pollinate flowers and vegetables. No they don't produce a honey crop nor are they kept in a hive - many are solitary and live in small holes in walls or the ground, or in small groups. The types we have here in Britain - our native bees - do not swarm, which is a feature of honey bee behaviour. It is diseases from hive bees transferring to the wild types that I am concerned about, not the other way round. Why on Earth would one kill them ??? >:(
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Do the wild bees make good honey or are they just disease carriers. Do beekeepers put them in to a domestic hive or not or are they just smoked out and left to die?
There are many types of bee. For example, the large 'fluffy' looking ones you see in the garden are bumble Bees and the bees that make honey are Honey Bees.
Some bees are solitary bees, but yes, you can get 'wild' Honey Bees. These are often bees that have swarmed from a hive and then set up home somewhere of their choice (for example, Dove Cotes, chimneys, tree hollows).
Many swarms go unnoticed but if they are in a place where they are not wanted, someone like me (a beekeeper) is called out to remove the bees and rehome them. I would then take the bees and safely rehome them in one of my spare hives.
With regard to disease, yes, disease can be transmitted from bee to bee and from hive to hive, for example, they can carry mites. Beekeepers buy the approved medication for the bees and treat them accordingly.
Beekeepers on the whole are responsible folk and we care greatly for our hives. We give the bees ample room to expand, treat with meds to keep them healthy and feed them when the forage isn't good. We make sure there is a water supply that they can access safely, and protect their hives from danger (for example from animals that might knock the hives over) and the elements.
I haven't gone into any great detail here as there is so much more too it, but I hope this reply gives you a bit more of an understanding as to how valuable bees are to us all.
It is very important that we ALL are considerate to ALL of our wildlife. Every little helps.
:bee:
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Having seen your web link OhLaLa on the solitary bees thread and looked at bumble bees, I find they don't have them in Australia - so sorry Blonde for thinking you just didn't like them ! Apparently there is a move to introduce them to Oz which is probably not too sensible, given how so many introduced species go out of control in a new country. Do you have native varieties of solitary bees? I have also learned that bumble bees are not solitary but live in a group with a queen and workers.
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Do the wild bees make good honey or are they just disease carriers. Do beekeepers put them in to a domestic hive or not or are they just smoked out and left to die?
There are many types of bee. For example, the large 'fluffy' looking ones you see in the garden are bumble Bees and the bees that make honey are Honey Bees.
Some bees are solitary bees, but yes, you can get 'wild' Honey Bees. These are often bees that have swarmed from a hive and then set up home somewhere of their choice (for example, Dove Cotes, chimneys, tree hollows).
Many swarms go unnoticed but if they are in a place where they are not wanted, someone like me (a beekeeper) is called out to remove the bees and rehome them. I would then take the bees and safely rehome them in one of my spare hives.
With regard to disease, yes, disease can be transmitted from bee to bee and from hive to hive, for example, they can carry mites. Beekeepers buy the approved medication for the bees and treat them accordingly.
Beekeepers on the whole are responsible folk and we care greatly for our hives. We give the bees ample room to expand, treat with meds to keep them healthy and feed them when the forage isn't good. We make sure there is a water supply that they can access safely, and protect their hives from danger (for example from animals that might knock the hives over) and the elements.
I haven't gone into any great detail here as there is so much more too it, but I hope this reply gives you a bit more of an understanding as to how valuable bees are to us all.
It is very important that we ALL are considerate to ALL of our wildlife. Every little helps.
:bee:
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(1) Do Bumble bees make honey or not?
(2) So when the conditons are not right what do you feed them?
(3) Do you breed your own queen bees or do you buy them from a breeder?
(4) What sorts of crops do you put your bees to work on?
(5) Do you put them in say a "Jarrah Forest" or in a "Canola Crop" or do you not live in Australia?
(6) If you find a native "wild" hive of bees can you transfer them to a bee box successfuly and have them settle down and collect honey for you?
(7) Do you spin you own honey or take it the honey pool and let them spin it out the of the boxes?
(8) What do you do with "wax liquor" when you have cleaned your wax?
(9) How often do you shift the bees?......and I guess you shift them at night. When the bees wake in the morning they send a couple of workers out to find feed and then they come back to the hive they do a dance to show the others where to find the feed without having to look...... Right?
(10) As you can see I dont keep bees but am alittle interested in the idea. Have a friend who is an expert on bees but dont get time to spend with him.
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Oh - this thread seems to have taken a turn.....
I was going to say Fleecewife that the wild bees around here love my ornamental quince which started to flower end of March time I think ...... not sure how it would fare up country though
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Hi Suziequeue: I do have a tiny quince/japonica which has some flowers on but it's taking its time getting established. I grew up in Norfolk where we had a huge one on each side of the front door - always buzzing with bees. Looks like mine will take a while to get to that size ;D.
I watched Chris Packhams programme the other night (an animals view of Britian I think it's called)and he did a feature on bumble bees, which as you can imagine really pleased me :) I hadn't realised that some bumble bee groups have up to 400 bees in. Nor that the smaller bumbles are workers. Fascinating that bumble bees don't like the smell of mammalian breath in case it means a predator. A researcher from Stirling Uni had a camera on a bees ground nest - which was predated by great tits, crows and a squirrel - now that surprised me 8) The reason for the research, which is government funded is that bumble bee numbers are falling frighteningly. I missed the precise figures, but I think he said that a large bumble bee colony of say 400 bees will pollinate more flowers more effectively than a hive of 60,000 honey bees, because they are far more efficient pollinators. So bumble bees really are more important then even I as their number one fan had thought. Another interesting fact from Chris Packham was that today, urban gardens are of enormous importance to bumble bees because of the large number of flowers and quiet grassy edges - as long as people grow single flowers
Today when I was at Palacerigg for the Easter Event, opposite our stand in the dripping marquee was the British Bee keepers association stand. Most of the posters were about bumble bees and there was plenty of time to speak with the man there, so I've been learning more. I had noticed that bumble bees often carry mites and had wondered about trying to pick them off, but this chap said that entomologists have told him not to as some are actually simbiotic, so they need them. Some of course are not, but how would you tell? Another thing this chap told me is that it is illegal to destroy the nests of many species of bumble bee - good, but I can't help but wonder who would notice, poor things.
The bumble bees here have been having a whale of a time in the warm weather, with willow flowers, daffodils, clematis, primroses, fruit blossom, loads of flowers - this must be a wonderful time for them.
Oh - this thread seems to have taken a turn.....
I was going to say Fleecewife that the wild bees around here love my ornamental quince which started to flower end of March time I think ...... not sure how it would fare up country though
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That's really interesting FW.
I think we have more wild bees this year - or it may be that I am in the garden more nowadays. Anyway - it's very heartening to see them and there seem to be a number of different types of wooly bottoms.
I am trying to grow bee friendly flowers and stuff but don;t think I would ever be able to keep my own bees for honey.
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Borage is a really good one for the bees, I was surprised about bumble bees living as a colony too! :bee:
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Do the wild bees make good honey or are they just disease carriers. Do beekeepers put them in to a deomestic hive or not or are they just smoked out and left to die?
Wild bees frequently carry disease and beekeepers that take ferral swarms frequently bring problems into their apiaries , not many apairies are free from disease in any case .
As such you dont smoke a nest of bees out you smoke the swarm or a hive to quieten them down .. they get a pheromone message from the queen that tells them they need to take on as much honey as possible incase they have to evacuate the hive/nest this taking on honey seems to make them drowsy /docile.
On numerous occasions I was called in by the local authority to deal with swarms of bees that had settled in public places /buildings such as libraries , hospitals, schools, swimming pools etc.
I was not allowed to try and collect the swarm or remove a nest due to the envisaged danger to the public and consequent possible legal actions of being sued if someone died from anaphalatic ( sp ) shock after getting stung .
Though I did attend a college one evening and physically removed half a ceiling to totally remove all traces of bees & a massive long term fully developed ferral nest which stretched some 16 feet back into the class room across four roof joists .
But usually I had to use a fast evaporating aerosol and spray the bee swarm /nest ..the resultant evaporation of the spray actually froze the bees and killed them in a fraction of a second . As soon as any stragglers reformed I had to spray them again & again till there were no further reforming attempts . ( think this is still the require & approved way under the same circumstances )
What most people do not know is that left to their own a swarm of bees will usually have found a new home by night fall or over the next day unless the weather suddenly turns cold and wet .
On occasions where the ferral bees were collectable I usually put them in one of several isolation hives sites some 7 miles from my home and inserted anti vrroa strips , filled the crown board feeded with syrup and returned a week later . If the bees were still there and had worked the new brood box I'd check the bees over for health . If it all looked good I usually brough them to one of my five main apiaries and united them to a smaller colony using a couple of sheets of The Times newspaper between the brood boxes with several small holes pierced in the news sheet to allow the bees to smell each other and slowly eat their way through the barrier instead of killing each other off in the battle royal you'd get if you just dumped new bees in on an old bee hive.
If the bees were in poor condition I'd wait till evening when all bees were in the brood box & usually poured in a 1/4 pint of petrol and closed up the hive for half an hour to kill them all and stop whatever was doing themin from spreading .
Once killed off I'd set the brood box a bit away and burn off all the frames , comb and dead bees . This done I'd then put the brood box in big poly bags and bring them into my fumigating shed , undo everything and fumigate them with a sulphur candle for a 24 hour stint.
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Hi Plantoid. The original question was about wild bees, by which I mean native bumble bees and the like as opposed to feral honey bees, which are not native. Do wild bees pose a disease threat to honey bees, and vice versa, or is there no contact between the two types?
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Hi Plantoid. The original question was about wild bees, by which I mean native bumble bees and the like as opposed to feral honey bees, which are not native. Do wild bees pose a disease threat to honey bees, and vice versa, or is there no contact between the two types?
I have seen some parasites on bumble bees and solitary bees that are visiting our left to seed brassicas today . They look like brauler ( sp ) I didn't have my reading glasses on ( I'm at that certain age ) but they were the brauler deep rich chestnut brown .
As bumble bees are much more hairy than honey bees they do not seem affected by varroa but I think that they are affected by all sorts of diseases found in honey bees that arise from mould / dampness.
Luckily most native bees are able to work the flowers at just over 45 oF and fly well into dusk if it is warm enough whereas honey bees only really start flying at 50 oF and go to bed when it's cold or dark.
Bees of all persuasions will visit the same flower if it is still producing nectar .. or pollen so I'd guess that the parasites do get passed on in this way and so will some of the maladies from spores or bacteria left by one species.
It may well be that because a bee is sick enough for things to be passed on it will not make the outward or return flight from the forage source whilst those inside the hive dedicated to nursing or house tasks will just die in the hive producing spores and more infecting bacteria.
I have never come across a dying non honey bee nest ... all the various bumble bee nests I've had to deal with were usually full of black flying vicious golfball sized critters . They have one of the worse stings imagineable, the sting can go right through a bee suit , thick sweat top shirt and tee shirt I can tell you . I hurt for days and a had a 56 inch tripple D cup on my breast/with a nipple like a chapel hat peg for nearly a week .
Each year my small holding had dozens of relocated bumble bee nests , each in it's own small pile of well composted grass cuttings .
The commercial poly tunnel growers and seed merchants who grow isolated polytunnel or fully netted stock buy in live laboratory produced bumble bee colonies for pollenation purposes .
It was one area I was looking at wrt bees but rather expensive to set up and market .. I think most of the pollenating bumble bee colonies are imports from Holland and very very clean .
Now we have much more bee friendly agricultural sprays bees are suppose to be getting a better deal but other man made pollution seems to be knocking that one into touch ..
In China in certain parts people are having to hand pollenate all crops with hand held pollenating wands ..there are no bees or insects of any kind to do the job they are all dead and have been missing of over 7 years all due to pollution effects..
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Now we have much more bee friendly agricultural sprays bees are suppose to be getting a better deal but other man made pollution seems to be knocking that one into touch ..
Or so we all thought check out this link the has been a lot in the news about this!!!
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.britishbeekeeping.com%2Fneonics.php&h=1c745 (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.britishbeekeeping.com%2Fneonics.php&h=1c745)
hope it works!!
If you use facebook this guy is worth adding lots of interesting info on bees and related topics
http://www.facebook.com/home.php# (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#)!/BarefootBeekeeper