The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: xnbacon on January 05, 2011, 05:30:50 pm
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Has anyone used or is using Dr Johns silver medal complete working dog food?
Basically is it any good?
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I have used it in the past , and it was good , I had no complaints about it at all . The dogs liked it and looked good on it , plus it was a good price .
No transport now days , so I get other food delivered . I also used to get Wagg's complete, and until recently Gusto ,Tesco stopped selling it !! (both were fine ), so now I get Brunos chicken and rice . All the dogs like it and they seem very well on it, plus it is only £7.96 for 10 kilos ( actually I get it in 2.5 kilo bags at £1.99 each).
cheers
Russ
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It's basically made from old bread and the ingredients are extremely suspect.........derivatives etc. I've done a lot of research in to dog food so will stay off my high horse 'cos I get very intense about what goes in to the food that I feed to my dogs and what I sell in my shop.
Ian
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knightquest what is your recommendation for dog food
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don't worry about being on your high horse mate .... I'm always on one !!! ::) ;D ;D ;D ...so go on spill the beans ,as it were , ...derivatives included !!!
I know that a lot of dog feeds contain absolute crap ... but, I am on a very , very tight budget, and needs must and all that ... as it happens most human food isn't that much better either , which is why I am trying to set my own food production ...for the dogs too.
cheers
Russ
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And what prices are they? And if this cheaper food is rubbish as you suggest why do dogs do well on it? Mine are on Purina Breederpack mostly (around £10 for 15kgs) and have shiny coats, are neither too fat nor too thin, very energetic, full of life, rarely ill (touch wood), and stools are normal. Have been on this more or less for two years, and range in ages from 1 year to 13.5 years, 2 different breeds. I would love to be able to afford more and probably could if it was worth it, but it has yet to be proved to me since I took two lots of an expensive brand (£27.50 a 15kg bag) last year and my dogs went downhill.
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The best branded food in my humble opinion is Arden Grange. It ain't cheap but they do a huge bag of food for breeders I think but I can't get hold of that size bag....
With dogs, and all creatures, food is only part of the equation. If dogs are exercised properly and kept warm etc and properly looked after, then they can get away with having lower grade food. I can guarantee that you monitor your dogs and adjust your dogs intake doganjo. We all should do this by the way. To be honest, if you pay £10 a bag or less, then you expect them to use derivatives of food or more specifically, the stuff no one else can use. If you do swap to a different brand of food, then the dogs body takes time to adjust so there is almost always a noticable change in the dogs condition (sometimes good and sometimes bad).
My argument is mainly with Bakers and Pedigree but especially Bakers. Up until recently, they had a disclaimer on their bags to say that their food cannot even be stored near farm animals food let alone fed to them !!**$$££%%**
When you look at dog food, look for food with meat meal in the ingredients and check the amount of meat in the food. Usually there is about 4% meat in the cheaper food with the rest made up of who knows what and wheat. As far as I know, dogs aren't made to have high volumes of wheat in their diets so that bothers me too.
Personally, I feed raw food to my dogs and always will. It's just more natural.
Happy to carry on if you have any other questions...
Ian
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bakers also had a huge list of artificial additives but now says permitted eec additives there well known because the money is spent on advertising but not on the food if i see a customer with problems in theur dogs health its usually fed on bakers.its pumped full of chemicals.specially ther meaty morsels....think about how long meat lasts for if exposed to air ..grr
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i feed my dogs raw meat, i started with it when my doberman cross (now 11) was diagosed with a digestive problem as a puppy as she was fed wrong by the breeder, the only food she can digest is raw food, and all my dogs have been fed on it ever since, as ian said its more natural, nearer to there natural diet, in my opinion
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don't think I would fancy the more natural diet of raw steak and sliced potatoes and raw peas ...yuk ... but my dogs get the odd rabbit here and there , they also catch birds too and eat them ... dirty sods ...Millie , my Weimaraner, catches and plays with, and then kills moles ... but never eats them ....same with frogs....I must teach her to leave Frenchmen alone !!!
cheers
Russ
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i have spent four years trying to teach my jack russell to catch moles with no luck!!!!!!!!! i will end up having to tunnel down after one myself soon, god bless her
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Ian ... and other raw feeders! Can I trouble you a moment?
I give our german shepherd raw bones when I can get them from the butchers. much better poo & great for her teeth (and keep her busy for ages!) the rest of the time she has a combination of terrier meal & tinned (chappie chicken and rice or Bruno.)
do you advocate freezing stuff first (to kill germs?) and does it then have to defrost completely? Sheba much prefers to grab her bones straight from the freezer - these are eaten immediately whereas fresh ones she often leaves "hanging around" which isnt very hygenic.
and do you give your dog carcases? with fur / feathers? (will this make my dog decide she can eat the chickens? though actually, she would if she got anyway. and the cats)
and again, do you freeze first?
how much should she have per meal/per day?
(She came to us from rescue extremely underweight. we fed her up then reduced the number of meals, then the amount. she is presently on the lean side. she was firstly starved, then in the rescue was so stressed by the other dogs she refused to eat or stole. Now, she will eat pretty much anything, and steals if she can, whether or not she is hungry. I call her "dustbin dog" - that distracts her!!)
anyone feed road kill?
And lastly (for now!) if she had a totally raw meat diet - just how much/how often should she have cereal/veg etc?? And what sort?!
theres so much information about BARF & raw diets, I get all bogged down with the different opinions.
but still, tell me yours!
:)
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It's no trouble at all little blue. We feed frozen mince because that's how we store it. Mostly we thaw it out but especially in the summer, we take the plastic wrapper off and give the 450g (1lb) blocks frozen. It acts as an iced lolly.
We have a very dated website at www.knightpetsupplies.co.uk which outlines the ethos of our raw feeding.
Some dogs don't seem to know about raw food to start with but pick it up eventually. I would NEVER, EVER feed tinned food!
We feed chicken carcasses that have been frozen for transporting etc but I would have no qualms about giving our dogs a carcass unprepared so to speak but as I said, they may not know what to do with them as this type of thing is not widely available in the middle of Birmingham :)
Don't worry either about bones that have been around for a while. Sometimes bones buried for a couple of months seem very palatable. If you are worried, wash them, put 'em in a plastic bag in the fridge and give 'em back a couple of days later.
We feed very little veg to be honest and no cereal. If you analyse a rabbit for instance as a meal. You would get bones, meat, organs etc and only the stomach would contain any veg so we replicate that percentage breakdown in our dogs diet.
I think that dogs generally will kill feathered and furred creatures if they are allowed to especially when the predator instinct kicks in by the movement of the prey. It is inevitable so we need to stop this by controlling the exposure to this stimulus.
By the way Russ me old mate. When you said that your dogs did well on Dr Johns, you never said that they were having all this live food too. It does make a difference you know ;)
pm me if anyone wants specific guidelines for your dog. I'll need the dogs weight, target weight, age and breed to start with. I would be happy to then recommend how to swap from the current diet to the raw diet etc.
Hope this helps,
Ian
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it does, thanks Ian.
now ... how to get Sheba on the scales??!! She's blooming heavy when she wants to be "loved", I know that!!
She has huge anxiety & behaviour issues stemming from her pre-rescue puppyhood, so popping to the vets for a quick weigh in is not my first choice of an evening out!
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Like little blue I don't feed raw because I would worry about not getting the balance right. I know what is in Breederpack from the label- although not right this minute because the bag is out in the garage lol But I will look tomorrow for the percentage of meat. I have to watch the protein as these get pretty 'hot' with excess percentages. We had a pup back a couple of weeks ago because he was so hyper they couldn't control him - 4months old and on 29% protein, new owners report he is doing just fine, reasonably calm for a pup, love him to bits, responding to training extremely well and now on Burns Puppy 21% protein.
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Hi I have a clumber which is allergic to quite a few feedstuffs beef, lamb pork, dairy (they are the main ones) so searching for food was a nightmare, even the expensive hypersensitive ones only stated meat derivatives or were the wrong compounds for an active working dog. after a fair bit of work found a company called holmedale who only use chicken products in their complete feeds and it is only £11 for 15kg. the dog has been on this for over a year and has had no allergy flare up and is very healthy
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i feed the blocks of raw meat, they come frozen, the dogs have there own freezer, and i defrost them as needed, and feed it raw, the blocks are a complete dog food with crushed bone in them so you can feed these on there own and they are a balanced diet, we also feed natural treats, tripe sticks, chicken wings, and such like
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Have you costed this out faith?
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The information below has been taken from our site to save y'awl clicking on to it. Have a read and see what you think.
A Guide To Feeding BARF
When feeding Bones And Raw Food (BARF) the following guides provide an excellent start to setting out the DAILY amounts of food to give to your dog.
The animal needs 15% to 20% of its body weight in food per week.
This equates to 2% to 3% per day.
The food should be a mixture of bones and meat as a balance. NOT Meat alone.
Below are the weights, and suggested amounts of food per day. They are a GUIDE only and the actual amount of food should be given after assessing the condition and 'shape' of your dog on an ongoing basis. Please contact Ian or Diane at the shop if you are unsure how your dog should look.
Dogs
Weight Daily Amount Typical Dog
5kg 100g to 150g Yorkie
10kg 200g to 300g Fox Terrier
15kg 300g to 450g
20kg 400g to 600g Spaniel
25kg 500g to 750g Staff
30kg 600g to 900g
35kg 700g to 1.05kg Labrador
40kg 800g to 1.2kg GSD
45kg 900g to 1.35kg
50kg 1kg to 1.5kg
55kg 1.1kg to 1.65kg Rottie
60kg 1.2kg to 1.8kg Irish Wolfhound
65kg 1.3kg to 1.95kg
Again, as a guide the weekly food intake should be split up as follows.
75% of the food should be Meat and 25% should be Bones. - The bones can be chicken wings, chicken carcasses, lamb ribs, turkey legs/wings etc. The important thing to remember is that all RAW bones are OK.
NEVER GIVE COOKED BONES TO DOGS!!
The meat that was mentioned earlier should be broken down too. Most of the weeks intake should be actual meat such as chicken or lamb. Beef can also be used but beef protein is not as important as the other meats. About a quarter of the meat should be offal. That is to say Tripe or kidneys etc. All is available at the shop.
Vegetables are also good to add to the diet. These can be chopped and added raw or the scraps from an evening meal are good too. About 10% of the weekly food can be vegetables.
Over seven days this regime could be used. Day one, use chicken meat. Day 2 Lamb meat. Day 3 Tripe. Day 4 Beef. Day 5 Chicken. Day 6 Lung, heart etc and day 7 lamb. Bones of some sort each meal of course.
Little Blue - if you work on your dog being 35kgs and feed a block and a half of meat and say 5 chicken wings or a chicken carcass per day then you will be on the right track. If your dog gets too thin then increase the food. If the fat starts to increase then reduce the food level.
It can seem quite daunting but when you start and get used to it, it is really satisfying to see your dog eating naturally.
Ian
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hi ian
do you ever miss a day of food?
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sorry doganjo just read your post, with our 3 dogs it costs about £3.00 a day, it is more expensive than dog complete but its the only diet my old bitch can have, and even with all her digestive problems she looks well and she is 11 in 3 weeks, and they all love it,
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thanks Ian. I did look at the website too :)
Sheba's weight seems to fluctuate ... but that is probably because, as I said, she had to be built up slowly then her food cut back abit as she got abit lardy!
she is a tall dog, but not "big" so I think around 35kg. (though with her coat probably 40kg ;) just 5 kilo of fluff on her and another 5 on my settee!!)
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i used to feed burns (was about £30 sack)when my gsd was a puppy, until she was a bout 3, (now 7yr) she just on a much cheaper mix now and no difference in her health or weight at all really.
when i lived in oz, the vets would tell u to feed raw chicken wings to the pups and dogs. in uk i think people wud be shocked, but never had a problem with the dogs and they loved it.
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Our dogs are on the 'breeder pack' complete dog food,have been for 6yrs now,we have a boxer 8yrs,doberman 7yrs,collie 3yrs,and 2 collie x's 1yrs.all on same thing with the odd treat of sunday roast left overs or a bit of gravy in the week with their food!!all dogs have great coats our vets always say how well they look,they are fit and healthy..when we did try more expensive food,their digestive systems didnt seem to like it..we had all manor of probs from runny poop,very smelly too..even down to the collie refusing to eat!so we've stuck to BP and all is well,i think all dogs are different and how they are weaned as pups makes a big impact on the effect of future feeding.x.x.x.
its great so many people have so much knowledge on here to share..never a problem that cant be fixed!!!!! :wave:
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Our dogs are on the 'breeder pack' complete dog food,have been for 6yrs now,
Good to hear someone else with good results from Breeder Pack. I gave my lot raw beef bones a couple of days ago and my whole house stinks with their f4rIs! ::)
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ahh our lab was given sprouts on xmas day - not pleasant aroma that night lol
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cant be as bad as lillian loves her sprouts
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when i had my pet shop the best selling dog complete was breederpack i sold sacks of it very week, the next best seller was dr john gold, the third best was the burns range, feeding is up the individual dog and its owner, if you find a food that suits your dog stick with it, its a personal thing
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when I can afford it, and there's a discount on (!) I get Sheba a sack of Whites - the muesli one.
she loves it ... but it remids me of rabbit food!
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Hello Faith. We only miss a day if we forget to bring food home................ ::) Happens more than you realise DOH!
I agree with feeding what suits your dog AND your pocket. We live and work in a poor area of Birmingham. Our best selling complete dog food is our own brand gluten free, lamb based meal and £26.50 for 15kg. It is a stunning food though and everyone who buys it swears by it (and AT me as it happens, but that's the kind of area we work in :D :D ) It makes my blood boil however when B*kers sell their sh*/e for the money they charge and say that it's good for dogs....................need to calm down. I am in the process of meeting with our local PDSA vets who are giving the most appalling feeding advice to the people who visit them. It bemuses me totally
We also keep our dogs lean too. This is more important than people think but is perhaps a topic for another thread. Good observation is key when looking after all animals so inspecting poo for size and confirmation and quantity is a big part of my life................sad I know but I can usually tell whether a dog is on raw, tinned or dry food from what comes out the back...............(Perhaps I should meet Gillian off celebrity :D )
Any information about what food you feed and what happens to your particular dogs would always be appreciated as the more info I get, the more I can help other dog owners so please keep me informed.
Ta ta for now,
Ian
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Just being nosey really but what area in Brum knightquest?
I agree about not overfeeding dogs. Ours get their quota, any fresh 'leftover' additions are added into the quota and the equivelent standard dog feed deducted from that quota accordingly. Their food isn't always finished each day so I know they aren't hungry.
Result is happy, fit doggies.
And here's good tip for a larger dog drinking bowl - I bought some old fashioned 'potties' (the sort that went under the bed). A nice big drinking bowl and cute to see doggie enjoying his 'gus-under'.
:dog:
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:D oh no, my wolf dog would make SO much mess with that!
this is the dog that plays in the shower, and who (I'm sure) fills her jowls with her drinking water before coming to "kiss" me!!
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Just being nosey really but what area in Brum knightquest?
Erdington, OhLaLa. About a mile and a half from Spaghetti Junction.
Love the idea of the 'gus-under' for the drinking bowl :D :D
Angela, who works for us has a St Bernie and a Dogue De Bordie..............man can they dribble and retain water. She's trained them to stand still once they've had a drink so that she can go and wipe their mouths :D ;D :D
Ian
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In reply to 'Knightquest's
Any information about what food you feed and what happens to your particular dogs would always be appreciated as the more info I get, the more I can help other dog owners so please keep me informed.
Hi all,
We have a 2 year old Springer Spaniel and two Parson Russell Terriers 5 and 7 years old who are on Pets at Home Complete (only 4% meat)
They all enjoy this, but they're not particularly 'picky', although having said that they're not too keen on Supadog Complete and they won't eat tinned dog-food, which I thought I'd give them for variety.
We do also regularly feed raw chicken wings and feet (we keep Sassos for meat). We also give them some bones when beef and pork come back from the butchers. They all go off rabbiting, can't seem to stop them (they are terriers) and I know they all eat some of what they catch. I will admit they also get any leftover casserole, stews etc also raw meat trimmings when I'm preparing meat for cooking.
They are all doing well on this diet are fit and healthy as well as a being nice and trim. They all have good teeth and gums which I put down to all the bones they crunch.
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Thanks for that Snapper. You are bang on about the bones. They are essential for dogs providing they are raw.
The exercise and balance between raw rabbits and casseroles is a good mix. I wouldn't personally worry about variety............they get loads already :) I certainly wouldn't introduce tinned food as the dogs probably think "what's this crap?" ;D and they'd be right.
It's interesting to see how many dogs catch their own food...........love that!
thanks again,
Ian
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Mine are pretty good at catching the cat when he arrives with a tasty snack! ;D ;D ;D
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Has anyone used or is using Dr Johns silver medal complete working dog food?
Basically is it any good?
Yes I feed this to my 2 dogs...Golden retreiver and patterdale terrier. I buy it from local feed merchants. I pay £8.49 for a 15kg bag. Have been feeding this for around 6 months and they are doing very well on it. They used to have Scats gold menu but went off that. I also feed scraps ( our left overs )
Hope this helps :)
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I thought dogs etc could NOT eat chicken bones??????
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only if raw.
cooked bones can splinter and cause lots of damage....
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hi
we feed raw/barf and have done for years now, we changed after feeding iams eukanuba, it said on the sack on artificial colours, preservatives or flavours, then in small print they said that they used an antioxidant called ethoxyquin, which is used to stop fats going off, its also believed to cause cancers and other problems. they later stopped admitting to using this chemical by saying they were using an ec approved antioxidant. i understand they now say they dont use this at all in any of their over the counter feeds but do use it in vet prescribed feed. this doesnt mean its no longer in the feed because it can be added by the meat supplier and they dont have to admit to it, anyway i dont trust these large companies with the well-being of my dogs any longer.
as for the price of raw, it can be very cheep if you get on well with your butcher and you have a small number of dogs, even with more dogs we find it cheaper or as cheap as the so called premium dry feeds.
kn
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I get mixed up re food too, I add some raw minced chicken to thier Dr Johns Gold and also some more expensive food, cobby dog chicken and rice although our breeding bitch is now on good quality puppy food mixed with either fish or chicken as she is very faddy but hungry. My labs look a little fat I think but I am never too sure about winter food, in the summer I do not mind them getting a bit thiner..like me!!!!! I may just give them some chicking wings the next time we have some meat birds (once we'ved dispatched them though ;) )
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Please be careful when mixing dry complete with raw food. They have different absorbtion rates and can upset the stomach or affect the system when mixed together.
If you have to feed both (I don't and wouldn't personally) then feed one type in the morning and the other in the afternoon. If your dogs are fed daily then alternate between complete and raw.
If you must add a biscuit to raw or tinned for that matter, then it must be a proper mixer biscuit. Something like Terrier meal for instance.
Remember that dry complete of any standard is meant to be just that.....Complete. Nothing should be added.
Ian
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What do people think of CSJ dog food?Its been recomended to me!!!!
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My trainer used to promote it but has stopped. He found something better and CSJ was getting to expensive for his clients. I've never tried it - too dear for me. Welcome home :-)
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We currently feed our dogs skinners ... about £20 for a 15kg sack and I believe about 26% protein (although would have to check!)
We have a border collie cross who cannot have any artificial colours or preservative due to his skin and who holds his weight well, a black lab who will eat anything you throw at him (but won't touch the other dogs bowls once his is empty!) and a Spanish Mastiff cross who we struggle to keep weight on in the winter.
Our dogs are free fed in that their bowls are refilled whenever they are empty. They are all looking very good right now and are very fit and healthy. They get the odd gutted rabbit or squirrel if my OH has been shooting and pretty much as much horse poo as they can eat ::) >:(
Would be interested to see if anyone has any opinions on the feed we use. I second that arden grange is a brilliant food but our collie doubles in size on it!! ;)
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Some one tells me that either Lidel or aldis have very good all in one food, seems too good to be true, is it?
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. i feed james wellbeloved and i think its great for my samoyed as she has a lot of allergies to alsorts so she is on a cereal free diet which works till they find something she cant have then its back to the vets for tablets.. >:(
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Some one tells me that either Lidel or aldis have very good all in one food, seems too good to be true, is it?
Yes Sandy.
Ian
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We currently feed our dogs skinners ... about £20 for a 15kg sack and I believe about 26% protein (although would have to check!)
We have a border collie cross who cannot have any artificial colours or preservative due to his skin and who holds his weight well, a black lab who will eat anything you throw at him (but won't touch the other dogs bowls once his is empty!) and a Spanish Mastiff cross who we struggle to keep weight on in the winter.
Our dogs are free fed in that their bowls are refilled whenever they are empty. They are all looking very good right now and are very fit and healthy. They get the odd gutted rabbit or squirrel if my OH has been shooting and pretty much as much horse poo as they can eat ::) >:(
Would be interested to see if anyone has any opinions on the feed we use. I second that arden grange is a brilliant food but our collie doubles in size on it!! ;)
In my opinion loosey, Skinners isn't too bad.
I've said before that feeding raw gutted animals is wonderful so keep that up as much as you can. Even the horse poo is good, just minging for us to watch :)
I wouldn't worry too much about protein levels. The amount of good quality ingredients is most important. NO derivatives.
Ian
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Even the horse poo is good, just minging for us to watch :)
I didn't know that - that will account for why mine love picking up huge dried clods of the stuff and chucking it about.....
....and chewing on cut off hoof remnants after the farrier has been.
:horse: :dog:
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Even the horse poo is good, just minging for us to watch :)
I didn't know that - that will account for why mine love picking up huge dried clods of the stuff and chucking it about.....
....and chewing on cut off hoof remnants after the farrier has been.
:horse: :dog:
When it's icy I use horse pooh to play fetch with my boys! So versatile!! :)