The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: bamford6 on December 20, 2010, 11:54:53 am
-
The shortest day, winter solstice and midwinter are the colloquial terms used to describe the 24 hours around an annual astronomical event which occurs around the 22nd December. The shortest day marks the point when the days start to get longer and the nights shorter, and has profound cultural meaning around the world and throughout history. The cultural significance varies, but generally refers to a time of rebirth and renewal and is celebrated with festivals and rituals.The solstice itself may have been a special moment of the annual cycle of the year even during neolithic times. Astronomical events, which during ancient times controlled the mating of animals, sowing of crops and metering of winter reserves between harvests, show how various cultural mythologies and traditions have arisen. This is attested by physical remains in the layouts of late Neolithic and Bronze Age archaeological sites such as Stonehenge in Britain and Newgrange in Ireland. The primary axes of both of these monuments seem to have been carefully aligned on a sight-line pointing to the winter solstice sunrise (New Grange) and the winter solstice sunset (Stonehenge). Significant in respect of Stonehenge is the fact that the Great Trilithon was erected outwards from the centre of the monument, i.e., its smooth flat face was turned towards the midwinter Sun. The winter solstice may have been immensely important because communities were not certain of living through the winter, and had to be prepared during the previous nine months. Starvation was common in winter between January and April, also known as the famine months. In temperate climates, the midwinter festival was the last feast celebration, before deep winter began. Most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter, so it was almost the only time of year when a supply of fresh meat was available. The majority of wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking at this time. The concentration of the observances were not always on the day commencing at midnight or at dawn, but the beginning of the pre-Romanized day, which falls on the previous
Since the event is seen as the reversal of the Sun's ebbing presence in the sky, concepts of the birth or rebirth of sun gods have been common and, in cultures using winter solstitially based cyclic calendars, the year as reborn has been celebrated with regard to life-death-rebirth deities or new beginnings such as Hogmanay's redding, a New Year cleaning tradition.
-
Will Tuesday Be the Darkest Day in 456 Years
Break out the flashlights. When a full lunar eclipse takes place on the shortest day of the year, the planet may just get awfully dark.
The upcoming Dec. 21 full moon -- besides distinguishing itself from the others in 2010 by undergoing a total eclipse -- will also take place on the same date as the solstice (the winter solstice if you live north of the equator, and the summer solstice if you live to the south).
Winter solstice is the shortest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere and marks the official beginning of winter. The sun is at its lowest in our sky because the North Pole of our tilted planet is pointing away from it.
So, how often does the December full moon coincide with the solstice? To answer this question, let's use Universal Time (UT), also sometimes referred to as Greenwich Mean Time (GMT). We do this because in answering this question, it's important to define a specific time zone.
For example, if you live in Honolulu, this December's full moon does not fall on the date of the solstice. Hawaii Time runs 10 hours behind GMT and the full moon occurs on Dec. 20 at 10:13 p.m. local time, while the solstice comes the following day at 1:38 p.m. Alaska, too, will have the full moon and the solstice occur on these respective dates, but in a time zone one hour later than Hawaii.
-
did u watch the Time Team special on stongehenge ? really interesting but threw old theories out. cant wait for days to get longer!! :wave:
-
I will gladly go outdoors and do some form of ritual tomorrow to ensure the return of the sun - it will be a very short one but very heartfelt, just as I'm sure our ancestors would have prayed at a time when survival was so uncertain and the winter so much more dangerous without heating or solid walls even :o
My post-ritual celebration won't be newly slaughtered cow or sheep but is more likely to be hot soup or a baked tattie, and no less celebratory for that ;)
Interesting it's 456 years since the last full moon/full lunar eclipse/solstice simultaneously occurred - I'd best look up history sites to see what happened as a result, just to be prepared as I'm not sure if it's a good sign, an omen, or what it's a sign of? Anyone know what happened in GMT time zone in December 1554 or shortly thereafter?
-
How can they say it's gonna be the darkest day in 456 years when light meters were only invented in the last 100 years ?
It's Yule tomorrow as well
-
Does anyone else celebrate the Solstice? We do with just a quiet day going over the year past and planning for the coming one. We have a celebratory evening meal of home grown produce - this time it will be roast gigot of hogget with potatoes and sprouts or kale (whichever doesn't shatter when I pick it) followed by a Yule log (which will be a log-shaped Christmas cake) We bring in a freshly felled log from our coppice and keep it in the hearth until next year. It is decorated with things which have particular symbolic significance to us, spun and woven. Last years log is then put on the fire. It's not the same as the traditional yule log, but is our own ceremony.
Any idea what time the eclipse of the moon will be in Britain?
-
I quite like the idea of celebrating the two solstices - they probably mean more to us than religious festivals. I can't get Christmas at all this year.
-
I think it falls on the 22nd this year ???
-
at least we will get lighter days
-
I'm not sure if it's a good sign, an omen, or what it's a sign of?
I think it's a sign called coincidence.......................sorry, I'm very matter of fact :)
ian
-
Same as me, Ian. Black is black, white is white, grey is grey. ::) ;D ;D ;D
-
Ah well, each to their own - I will celebrate solstice, Christmas isn't for me :) Not so sure about black white and grey any more, I prefer colours to monochrome and lots of shades and textures too for preference ;)
Eclipse is due in northern Europe around dawn with maximum point at 816 but as the moon is setting during that period we apparently will only see the start from around 740.. Yes I googled it ::)
-
I'm not sure if it's a good sign, an omen, or what it's a sign of?
I think it's a sign called coincidence.......................sorry, I'm very matter of fact :)
ian
Ahhh yes but what if all coincidences are spiritual puns?
-
It might be nice to try and plant a tree, I have seven fruit trees that need to go in, but the ground is so hard at the moment I don't think I would succeed. I have also saved all the blood from my turkeys which I bled out into a bucket of wood chippings, that would I am sure make a fantastic fertilizer and please the old gods at the same time, not to mention resourcefully nourishing the earth.
Last year I opened the front door and the back door to let the old year out and the new year in. I burnt incense and asked for a more productive year and traced a pentagram on my kitchen table with the dust.
This year I will light a candle and stop cursing the darkness. - I have also made a note on the kitchen wall to be prepared for power cuts.
I humbly offer my mysticism and pragmatism in one post.
-
Last year I opened the front door and the back door to let the old year out and the new year in. I burnt incense and asked for a more productive year and traced a pentagram on my kitchen table with the dust.
I do too, providing there isn't a freezing cold howling gale outside ::) So sometimes my superstitions get the better of me ;D
-
I'm not sure if it's a good sign, an omen, or what it's a sign of?
I think it's a sign called coincidence.......................sorry, I'm very matter of fact :)
ian
Ahhh yes but what if all coincidences are spiritual puns?
Please define a spiritual pun. It's late and I'm a simple man.
ian
-
You lot make me laugh!
-
That's what we're all here for - can't think of another reason for being born into this daft world! ;D
Oh and I missed the eclipse thingy!
-
if we weren't George raft we would not be throwing money at animals and trying to justify it
-
Can't justify it, still doing it :dunce: ::)
-
I'm not sure if it's a good sign, an omen, or what it's a sign of?
I think it's a sign called coincidence.......................sorry, I'm very matter of fact :)
Ian
Ahhh yes but what if all coincidences are spiritual puns?
Please define a spiritual pun. It's late and I'm a simple man.
Okay Ian, have you got a beer in your hand because you will understand this better after five pints.
Phew!!!, erm, right, firstly its a quote from G.K Chesterton.
To me it describes the nature of synchronicity which often just seems to be the synergistic punning or the nature of words or events unexpectedly twinning with perceived mystical overtones. This connectivity causes a shift in your metacognition that shapes your perceptions and expectations from otherwise unrelated events providing you with a unique translation of the aforesaid unrelated events and shaping your perceptions of them. This feeling often results in a sense of enlightenment.
Hope that helps.... I'll go and get back in my box now.
-
and coincidently G K Chesterton was pissed out of his head when he came to that conclusion ... it's the only time that the synergism of synchronistic events would make any sense in your metacognition , once your perceptions and expectations of unrelated events, have allowed you to perceive a sense of enlightenment , due to the connectivity of those unrelated events, and to the fact that one can only come to that conclusion if one is totally pissed out of ones head !!!
Simples .....
cheers
Russ
-
Yes BUT our solstices, full moons and eclipses of sun and moon are all to do with the physical rules of how the solar system works. The rotations, orbits etc of the various planets, moons, sun etc interconnect, so all three things happening on the same day today is not random or just a coincidence, but is defined by the laws of science. I don't see any spiritual meaning in it, but it's a great example of how huge time is, especially compared to our tiny lifespans. We are here for such a short time that the last time this happened was many of our lifetimes ago, but is just a tiny flash in universal time.
This time of year is great for standing outside on a clear night and looking up at the stars - then come in and try not to think about it or you feel dizzy and very very small :o
My OH saw the first half of the eclipse but a big cloud came past just before full darkness - typical !!
-
Bright Raven and Russ.....................You guys are sooooo much more intelligent than me. So much so that I am sometimes scared. However, not long after being scared, something distracts me and I forget all about it :D :D :D
It is so much easier being thick lol
Juliet, you are right. WHATEVER happens, it is just a moment in time. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sometimes you just need to stop and smell the roses.
ian
-
yes ... you are right Fleecewife.. but basically that is what GK Chesterton was saying (in a clever arse way , well ok, he was extremely clever ). That we as humans , connect unrelated events, that maybe we can't explain , to a spiritual nature , sort of " I have seen the light " type of thing (or in your OH's case ..."I didn't see the dark !!" ). When in reality , there is no connection, apart from what we perceive there to be . Or , to have knowledge of what you 'know' , knowledge of knowledge. Or, it explains what we don't understand , so that we then know about what we know . That "oh I get it " moment , or that moment when the penny drops .... although in this case it is a perceived understanding of connectivity with matters spiritual , in fact it is what we call a mid life crisis in men ....
cheers
Russ
-
Just hold on to this one while you sink that sixth beer.
"The manifestation of the universe as a complex idea unto itself as opposed to being in or outside the true Being of itself is inherently a conceptual nothingness or Nothingness in relation to any abstract form of existing or to exist or having existed in perpetuity and not subject to laws of physicality or motion or ideas relating to non-matter or the lack of objective Being or subjective otherness."
Happy Winter Solstice Everyone!
:wave:
-
thick as two short planks me mate .....
moments happen all the time , such as a beautiful red sky at dusk , a fantastic clear blue sky in summer , or as now a stunning scene of snow covered land . They should be held in your mind and treasured , as only you , could have seen that scene at that moment , and all those thousands of moments from a lifetime, will be lost, in time , like tears in rain , and that is why we as humans make the spiritual link .
The lost in time bit is from Blade Runner , but it spooked me somewhat when I first saw the film and heard that fantastic dying speech , as I had used the 'these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain' at school , in a story with a very similar ending to BR ...now is that just a coincidence ?
cheers
Russ
-
Just hold on to this one while you sink that sixth beer.
"The manifestation of the universe as a complex idea unto itself as opposed to being in or outside the true Being of itself is inherently a conceptual nothingness or Nothingness in relation to any abstract form of existing or to exist or having existed in perpetuity and not subject to laws of physicality or motion or ideas relating to non-matter or the lack of objective Being or subjective otherness."
Happy Winter Solstice Everyone!
:wave:
I swear that I understood three maybe four words in that passage. :D :D
Happy Winter Solstice to you too Bright Raven.
Ian
-
yep ... exactly .. is everything an illusion ? do we even exist ? are we just a particle of dust in a carpet ? are humans a virus on a cell ? ...once again you can relate that to spiritual connectivity of the human mind , in blokes again it is that ..."what am I doing" moment " what is the meaning of all this ?" what we don't understand we can perceive as spiritual or Godly or even Ungodly happenings or moments in time ... does me ed in ....
cheers
Russ
-
Am I lucky to 'live in the moment' ? I have things/jobs that I want to do and I get them done but if I don't, then I don't...... I like to see how things work but don't stress too much if I can't work it out.
Those close to me tell me that I should think more about the future (and remember more about the past). To be honest, I can't be arsed.
Am I lucky or too simplistic (stoopid)? Feel free to venture any thoughts....I'm almost impossible to offend ;)
ian
-
my view Ian is , we are all lucky to be who we are . Some academics , can live in a mental or intellectual , what we could now call 'virtual ' world . Pragmatists would be the opposite (sounds like you Ian !! ) . Then there are a raft of differing views and outlooks in between and outside those .
We need all types , as one depends on the other to survive if we want to live in a society (MMMmm do we all want to ? ).
Judging by what you have said over the time you have been on here , you don't need to be anything other than what/who you are , maybe you are lucky to be simplistic ? ( anything 'but' stoopid mate)....
cheers
Russ
-
Then there is 'deja vu' - is that going to happen, did that happen just now, or have I experienced it in the past?
And what about ghosts. Why did my TV suddenly switch itself on this afternoon when I was through at the other end of the house. And why did it do the same last week but also turn the volume up to maximum?
And why did my front security light go on three times last night while I was sitting in there watching said TV? Each time I rushed to the door thinking it was the cat wanting in, and the third time I realised he was sitting sleeping on the chair in the hall. A coincidence of what with what? ::) ::) ::)
-
I'm with you Ian. I was lost after the first rant! still we need nerds don't we?
-
Poltergeist's Annie ... they are in your TV !!!! OMG !!!! :o :o ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
There goes the human mind again . looking for an answer !
One person may say that it IS a poltergeist , yet another may say it's just a faulty TV !!
I would say it is just a faulty TV ....but if I were you, I would get it exorcised just in case ... mind you , you may get some funny looks from people as you take your TV for a walk on the lead everyday !!!
cheers
Russ
-
....... I've had nine beers, ........... hic............ and I love everybody............... see you,................ all of you................. you are my best ishtpalls.
Cum,,,,,,mmun, hic, ave a dringk wiv me. Your all great, ............ like, hic, ......... li ttle shiny lights, ............. huic, wiv help and everyhting. Nish people. And life,....... it's like confetti, inna inna hat, and tears in rain...... and waiving your pants.....and ............ falling over. Coz were like insects,.... on the tail of a turtle,,,,,, and maybe we could get eaten by a dog.....and it its just scale....... or quantum,,,,,,,,, youknowwaddimean'?
-
Pure dead brilliant! ;D ;D ;D
-
This is one of my favourite threads ever!
Nerds and Numpties, one and all :) :D :)
Ian
-
Went out early to see the eclipse, it was quite an event. Who missed it, you can look at it on our blog ;)
http://north-fife.blogspot.com/
I'd love to celebrate Solstice but always end up in a mad rush to get organised for what everyone else does...when the kids have moved out maybe ;)
I certainly feel the significance of Solstice since I have animals - MAY THERE BE LIGHT!!! :&> :&> :wave: :wave:
-
yes ..I absolutely hate and detest the shortness of the days at this time of year , and even in this cold and snowy weather we are having , I feel a weight has been lifted , knowing that the days will soon be getting longer and that spring is on it's way , albeit a long way off at the moment .
I can understand why this day was celebrated so much in pagan times , and find much more sense and understanding of their thoughts than I do of any modern religion/belief/way of life . Maybe it is to do with the looking after of animals and crops , the natural cycle ...which Pagans were obviously closely in tune with .
cheers
Russ
-
i look forward to the 21st dec more than christmas, were on the right side now, its such a good feeling :wave:
-
the start off winter in pagan times was the 31 st off october candle mass meaning lighter
-
Eternity is how long it takes to learn everything so I just take each day as it comes, have my own believes and I am very thankful for what I have. Thats before I start on the wine :wave:
-
Eternity is how long it takes to learn everything so I just take each day as it comes, have my own believes and I am very thankful for what I have. Thats before I start on the wine :wave:
Nice :)
Ian
-
I have this "belief" that the blackbirds herald the start of the new year on the first day after solstice. It could be just my reticular activated system of course and it may be that the birds sing a chourus in the days before but that I dont notice as I am not looking for it. It could also be that if you sat on a twig all night in freezing conditions counting the hours from dusk till dawn that you would notice the slightest increase in daylight and sing with joy at the sight of it. ;)
Either way I think animals, like people learn by association and recognise signs and patterns, be they pattens of behavior or the rhythm of the seasons.
I watched the eclipse and used the occasion to remind myself of what is important to me. Its easy for me to get so tired and bogged down by a full time job, a two hour commute, reccession, restructures and rising cost of living. Especially in the cold and gloomy depths of winter when I leave home in the dark and return in the dark. The shadow of the moon across the sun reminded me that sometimes all the good things in my life get obscured by all the rubbish in the world and I loose sight of them. It also made me ackowledge that as mighty as the sun may be it canot destroy the moon, mearly cast a shadow over it. That evening when the moon rose again, tinted orange by the remains of the setting sun in the evening sky it looked as big and radient as any sun and reminded me again that the joy in my life is always there, I just have to take a little time to look for it.
Buffy
-
I hope that my birds will recognize it soon by starting to lay again ;D ;D :&> :chook: :wave:
-
well i don't think we saw any daylight amid the fog today here in derbyshire
-
I have this "belief" that the blackbirds herald the start of the new year on the first day after solstice. It could be just my reticular activated system of course and it may be that the birds sing a chourus in the days before but that I dont notice as I am not looking for it. It could also be that if you sat on a twig all night in freezing conditions counting the hours from dusk till dawn that you would notice the slightest increase in daylight and sing with joy at the sight of it. ;)
Either way I think animals, like people learn by association and recognise signs and patterns, be they pattens of behavior or the rhythm of the seasons.
I watched the eclipse and used the occasion to remind myself of what is important to me. Its easy for me to get so tired and bogged down by a full time job, a two hour commute, reccession, restructures and rising cost of living. Especially in the cold and gloomy depths of winter when I leave home in the dark and return in the dark. The shadow of the moon across the sun reminded me that sometimes all the good things in my life get obscured by all the rubbish in the world and I loose sight of them. It also made me ackowledge that as mighty as the sun may be it canot destroy the moon, mearly cast a shadow over it. That evening when the moon rose again, tinted orange by the remains of the setting sun in the evening sky it looked as big and radient as any sun and reminded me again that the joy in my life is always there, I just have to take a little time to look for it.
Buffy
What a beautiful way to look at life.
-
my delivery man was wearing shorts the day after solstice, in the snow, minus 4 degrees. When I questioned him on his attire, he said "the way I look at it, we have had the shortest day, summer is on it's way" and grinned crazily! have to say, I admire his outlook, but can't give up on the thermals!