The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: mintytwoshoes on March 02, 2021, 12:28:35 pm
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Hi Everyone
How are you coping with the containment of your birds. Just wondering when we will have the all clear to let them out again.
What is the ruling on rehoming chickens at the moment?
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Our hens are happy in the polytunnel and would be content to stay there all year. We need to start getting our plants in now though so we're as keen as any to get the hens out and back to their own house.
Wild geese are heading back north now, so it shouldn't be long before the lockdown is lifted.
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I think with the spring coming they are all feeling confined be glad when we can release them[size=78%] [/size] :excited:
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With at least four areas recognised as having outbreaks in Scotland, one of them fairly recent I fear it will be almost summer before we can let them out. :'( :'( :'(
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With at least four areas recognised as having outbreaks in Scotland, one of them fairly recent I fear it will be almost summer before we can let them out. :'( :'( :'(
Where did you get that from? I checked the ScotGov website - latest info on there is the Glenrothes outbreak 11th Feb; before that, Sanday 19th December. Most recent wild bird find 20th January in North Berwick and before that 29th December.
The commercial guys will be lobbying hard as the three months comes up on 14th March - my understanding is that eggs that were previously labelled free range will no longer be able to be labbelled in that way.
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Have they got Gartmorn Dam and Leven, Fife on the list?
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Have they got Gartmorn Dam and Leven, Fife on the list?
Yes.
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That makes "at least" four doesn't it? :eyelashes: Leven, Glenrothes, Gartmorn, Sanday, Berwick?
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That makes "at least" four doesn't it? :eyelashes: Leven, Glenrothes, Gartmorn, Sanday, Berwick?
There's a difference between an outbreak in domestic poultry and an incident with a wild bird.
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Well Gartmorn wasn't 'an incident with a wild bird' - it was several incidents with wild birds, and since it's wild birds that carry it from area to area I felt justified in including those
But that aside, I doubt our domestic/commercial birds will be allowed out any time soon. I do hope I'm wrong as even with only four hens it is an imposition for both them and myself
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Mine are getting desperate to be let out! They start crowding near the door as soon as they see someone approaching.
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Mine are getting desperate to be let out! They start crowding near the door as soon as they see someone approaching.
:'( :'( :'(
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Well Gartmorn wasn't 'an incident with a wild bird' - it was several incidents with wild birds, and since it's wild birds that carry it from area to area I felt justified in including those
But that aside, I doubt our domestic/commercial birds will be allowed out any time soon. I do hope I'm wrong as even with only four hens it is an imposition for both them and myself
You can see all the logged incidents of bird flu involving wild birds on the gov.uk site as a separate list to the commercial and domestic outbreaks. Over a year considering the HUGE populations of wild birds it is very small. Even when a group of birds are found in one location it might only amount to a couple of dozen. I know every wild bird will not be found but as it is more prevalent in wildfowl and they congregate in numbers there is a higher chance wild outbreaks would be spotted. From the evidence I think the bird flu levels in the wild population aren't concerning. Incidents in smallholder/backyard flocks is pretty low too. Where the major problems are is of course the commercial units. Again the infection rates are small but then the cull that follows is huge.
Whether domestic poultry being locked in is justifiable is not that convincing to me. A more targeted approach around outbreaks and high risk areas would seem more appropriate to me.
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And a more targeted approach is the one taken in France Harmony. There are no under-cover requirements here, but when an outbreak is spotted all fowl within a 1 Km radius of it are slaughtered and a movement restriction zone of 10 Km radius is established. Bad luck though if ours or our neighbour's little domestic flocks are within the 1 Km zone, because they will be included in the slaughter.
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I think that could happen here too, couldn't it? At least that's my understanding. There's a farm down the road from me that let their chickens free range atm and it was the same during the last bird flu lockdown. ???
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Has anyone heard on the grapevine any new hints or info of when our birds will be freed?
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The gov.uk site was updated on the 11th of March. 15 confirmed cases in England. 2 in Scotland. 1 in Wales. 21 cases in wild birds since beginning of year with none for last four weeks.
I think that's fairly positive that it shouldn't be much longer.
Wild bird cases are mostly waterfowl and then birds of prey.
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Thanks harmony, that is starting to look positive :thumbsup:
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sadly a red kite is now reported, West Yorkshire, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/969204/ai-findings-2021.csv/preview
and, somewhere in England undated but reported this week, 3 seals and a fox
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_source=ed7a7a3d-c40e-4072-a3ab-dc2354e75e4c&utm_content=daily
(under 'other events in England')
so it's not over yet.
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sadly a red kite is now reported, West Yorkshire, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/969204/ai-findings-2021.csv/preview (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/969204/ai-findings-2021.csv/preview)
and, somewhere in England undated but reported this week, 3 seals and a fox
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_source=ed7a7a3d-c40e-4072-a3ab-dc2354e75e4c&utm_content=daily (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_source=ed7a7a3d-c40e-4072-a3ab-dc2354e75e4c&utm_content=daily)
(under 'other events in England')
so it's not over yet.
No it is still out there but not in huge numbers. Poor bio security is a major spreader of the disease between units.
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Folks, I caught a really interesting programme on Radio 4 today, called "the jump". Today's episode was talking about bird flu, and how scientists are really worried about the potential for it to jump species.
Suddenly all the current restrictions make much more sense in that context, and with the in-depth explanations given. It's also worth listening to in the context of smallholding vs intensive farming. You can catch it on iplayer etc:
BBC Radio 4 - The Jump, The Jump: Bird Flu (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000t47k)
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as it's just been found in 3 seals and a fox (see my previous post), it certainly can jump species.
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how scientists are really worried about the potential for it to jump species.
This has always been a concern - mainly the "jump" to humans.
I hope we get the hens out soon or I've nowhere to put my tomatoes.
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One of the things they said was that they have evidence of jumps from wild to captive and back to wild birds again, plus also jumps to pigs (hence where swine flu came from). "So, what's the chance of another pandemic occuring at some point, caused by a jump of something like H5N8 into people?", asked the interviewer. "Oh, at some point, that's almost certain", said the scientist.
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One of the things they said was that they have evidence of jumps from wild to captive and back to wild birds again, plus also jumps to pigs (hence where swine flu came from). "So, what's the chance of another pandemic occuring at some point, caused by a jump of something like H5N8 into people?", asked the interviewer. "Oh, at some point, that's almost certain", said the scientist.
This is not new. Guidance for pig keepers already exists in the case of bird flu outbreaks and a different movement licence is needed in high risk zones if you keep poultry and pigs on the same premises. I think it is highly likely if you had an outbreak of bird flu on your premises and have pigs your pigs could be culled.
It has long been known that you can pass a human cold to a ferret and other animals get covid type infections.
Look at all the variants of covid we have circulating already.
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One of the things they said was that they have evidence of jumps from wild to captive and back to wild birds again, plus also jumps to pigs (hence where swine flu came from). "So, what's the chance of another pandemic occuring at some point, caused by a jump of something like H5N8 into people?", asked the interviewer. "Oh, at some point, that's almost certain", said the scientist.
It's one of the major mechanisms for influenza mutations. Jump to another species, mutate there a bit so original species will no longer recognise it, jump back. And variations on that theme. I was taught this at uni over 40 years ago. So no, not new. Oh, and at that time, it was said that the average interval between pandemic-level mutations (affecting humans, I mean) was 33 years.
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Restrictions are being lifted at end of the month - just heard :)
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Yay :excited: :yippee: :yippee: :hughen: :relief:
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:excited: I feel a big chicken/duck party coming on :yippee: :chook: :&> :chook: :&>
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So am I right in thinking they can come out tomorrow? Sounds too good to be true!
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So am I right in thinking they can come out tomorrow? Sounds too good to be true!
You are!!!
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So am I right in thinking they can come out tomorrow? Sounds too good to be true!
You are!!!
30 days hath September, April, June and November
The rest have 31 days clear and 28 in each leap year.
;D
Your poultry can come out on Wed night at one minute to midnight, but they probably won't thank you for it. In practice they can come out on Thursday morning. And here in Scotland we can come out on Friday and drive a round a bit too.
I'll be joining the Poultry party :celebrate: :yippee: :celebrate:
My plants and I are looking forward to having our polytunnel back :garden:
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I would suggest Fleecewife missed a phrase out ... '30 days hath September, April, June and November: all the rest have 31 excepting February which has 28 days clear and 29 in each leap year'. :)
( I shall also be keeping the following old rhyme in mind in the next few days: If the Oak should be out before the Ash, then we shall have a splash, but if the Ash is out before the Oak then we shall have a soak. )
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So am I right in thinking they can come out tomorrow? Sounds too good to be true!
Strange in light of recent emails from APHA of new outbreaks but yes, domestic birds can be let out tfrom oday 31st March
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I would suggest Fleecewife missed a phrase out ... '30 days hath September, April, June and November: all the rest have 31 excepting February which has 28 days clear and 29 in each leap year'. :)
( I shall also be keeping the following old rhyme in mind in the next few days: If the Oak should be out before the Ash, then we shall have a splash, but if the Ash is out before the Oak then we shall have a soak. )
I know, but I went for the shorter version because it already sounded horribly school marmish ;D
The point is the birds have to wait until tomorrow morning to be let out.
I always note which comes out first, oak or ash, but I've no idea if either is followed by torrential rain or a drought.
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I find these sayings best avoided. Just because it rhymes, doesn't make it true. "Cut thistles in May, and they'll grow in a day" - No, they clearly don't. It takes at least three days.
They're also terribly imprecise. "A bee swarm in may is worth a load of hay" - how big a load?.
Anyway, forty days hath November, March, June and Febtember. If you die before you wake, then the mole your soul will take.
It's been a hard day, and I'm sleep deprived. Can anybody tell? ;D
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At 05.45 I let the girls out to the freedom of the paddock, they went bananas ! louping about like idiots, and dust baths being dug, Oh and sunbathing , insect chasing and overall happiness .
I so glad to see them happy, now to clear up the "prison"
Happy days
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My four have effectively done the job of a couple of pigs :excited: not a blade of grass left unpecked