The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Fleecewife on November 05, 2020, 12:01:32 pm
-
I've just been reading about Tilly Christmas and Kieran White who, on their marriage, have taken the joint surname White-Christmas ;D That's lovely, but what do you think about couples taking on a double barrel surname when they marry? Fair enough, yes? But then what happens when the children get married? Do they take on four family names? Do they revert to just one of their parent's surnames?
I quite like the American way where some women keep their mothers name and their father's, but not hyphenated, but men don't seem to do that. Nordic names often end in -dottir or -sson, but I don't know how that progresses, if it does.
I have noted that legally my name is: two given names followed by my father's family name, followed by my husband's family name. My mother's legal name however, was her given name, then her mother's family name, then her father's family name, then her first husband's family name followed by her second husband's family name - quite a mouthful!
Just cogitating, and we're not even in enforced lockdown, just shielding as usual here in Scotland.
-
I went through all this when I married, and we decided to have a new family name, which we appended to each of our pre-marital names. We thought that gave good traceability as first generation birth certificates would show parental surname plus paternal surnames of each parent.
The weeks in which we were deciding on our new "family" surname were great fun, as friends near and far offered suggestions... My favourite was a letter arriving addressed to Mr and Ms Qwerty-Luxury Yacht. But the hubs-to-be wouldn't go for that, spoilsport.
Ironically, after all that thought, we never had any children. And now are divorced and have both dropped the chosen family name. :-\
-
Dan's my second husband - if I had reverted to my maiden name and we'd hyphenated ours, we'd be the Champion-Hunters or Hunter-Champions. :roflanim:
-
Dan's my second husband - if I had reverted to my maiden name and we'd hyphenated ours, we'd be the Champion-Hunters or Hunter-Champions. :roflanim:
Brilliant! At my school the geography teacher Miss Shepherd married Mr Woollie, but they didn't hyphenate either ::)
-
Dan's my second husband - if I had reverted to my maiden name and we'd hyphenated ours, we'd be the Champion-Hunters or Hunter-Champions. :roflanim:
Brilliant! At my school the geography teacher Miss Shepherd married Mr Woollie, but they didn't hyphenate either ::)
Did they have a lot of lambs? :innocent:
-
Slightly off piste, my daughter Sorrel is presently dating someone whose family name is Sorrel !!
Someone once told me that Spanish female children keep their maternal family name: I'm uncertain about (when did a maternal family name start?) - it might be false news, but I thought I'd mention anyway.
-
Someone once told me that Spanish female children keep their maternal family name: I'm uncertain about (when did a maternal family name start?) - it might be false news, but I thought I'd mention anyway.
All spanish citizens legally inherit fathers and mothers surname. I.e. mr Gonzalez and mrs Sanchez have a baby it will be called Gonzalez-Sanchez. But hes or hers children will only inherit Gonzalez (i.e. his or hers fathers surname).
I hope that makes sense :innocent:
-
When my son was about to be married, he and his fiancee had discussed what surname they should use - his or hers. In the end they chose to use his as he is better known in his professional field than she is in hers, but she kept hers as a middle name and he changed his by deed poll to have her surname as a middle name.
I did know a couple, not married, who had two children together. They decided that it wasn't fair on the children to have to have either parent's surname so they each were given different surnames. For their first, they chose to use her grandmother's maiden name which was Lewis as her surname. The poor old lady was terribly confused and told people, "They said they're calling the baby Lewis after me, but I thought it was a girl."
-
Dan's my second husband - if I had reverted to my maiden name and we'd hyphenated ours, we'd be the Champion-Hunters or Hunter-Champions. :roflanim:
Brilliant! At my school the geography teacher Miss Shepherd married Mr Woollie, but they didn't hyphenate either ::)
Did they have a lot of lambs? :innocent:
I don't know as I left at the end of sixth form and never went back to visit. I wonder what names they would have given the lambs children? It's ridiculous but as an all-girls school in the '50s and '60s, we were all so embarrassed when any of our teachers got married, so we wouldn't have been thinking about what might be the result, ie babies.
-
Someone once told me that Spanish female children keep their maternal family name: I'm uncertain about (when did a maternal family name start?) - it might be false news, but I thought I'd mention anyway.
All spanish citizens legally inherit fathers and mothers surname. I.e. mr Gonzalez and mrs Sanchez have a baby it will be called Gonzalez-Sanchez. But hes or hers children will only inherit Gonzalez (i.e. his or hers fathers surname).
I hope that makes sense :innocent:
Yes, that's what I was wondering for the UK - how many names would any children aquire here from two double-barrelled parents.
In past centuries it was only the 'upper classes' who used double-barrelled names, and sometimes it was a condition of inheriting an estate if it was someone with a different family name, say a cousin, that they had to take on the family name attached to the estate. Also occasionally where a woman had a large inheritance it could be a condition of marriage that her husband took her family name to continue it down the line.
Local to us, a very old estate came up for sale years ago and the buyer double barrelled the previous owners ancient name onto their own unknown one so they sounded posher than they were ::).
-
Yes, that's what I was wondering for the UK - how many names would any children aquire here from two double-barrelled parents.
In past centuries it was only the 'upper classes' who used double-barrelled names, and sometimes it was a condition of inheriting an estate if it was someone with a different family name, say a cousin, that they had to take on the family name attached to the estate. Also occasionally where a woman had a large inheritance it could be a condition of marriage that her husband took her family name to continue it down the line.
Local to us, a very old estate came up for sale years ago and the buyer double barrelled the previous owners ancient name onto their own unknown one so they sounded posher than they were ::).
It seems to be the case in other countries too. I was recently reading about WW2 and most Polish generals and high ranking officers had double (noble sounding) surnames. Later during communist times most officers had peasants surnames. In UK there isnusually no difference between posh and peasant surnames, but in Poland you can often tell.
-
Slightly off piste, my daughter Sorrel is presently dating someone whose family name is Sorrel !!
She'd be in good company. The footballing Neville brothers' dad was Neville Neville!
-
Slightly off piste, my daughter Sorrel is presently dating someone whose family name is Sorrel !!
She'd be in good company. The footballing Neville brothers' dad was Neville Neville!
I'm still working that one out, but, so far, I'm thinking Neville brothers' grand-parents possibly had a wicked sense of humour ???
-
We have Latvian friends who have the same surname - almost. The husband's name ends in ski and the wife's ends in ska. Our Polish neighbours both have the same surname. I think that in Ghana the wife keeps the same surname. A Ghanaian friend kept her name but the children had the father's surname and I thought it was just them but her sister did the same. I'm not sure. Anyone know?
MY ex son-in-law is Zimbabwean and his surname is different to his parents and brothers. He said that when children become adults they can choose their own surname.
-
Slightly off piste, my daughter Sorrel is presently dating someone whose family name is Sorrel !!
She'd be in good company. The footballing Neville brothers' dad was Neville Neville!
I'm still working that one out, but, so far, I'm thinking Neville brothers' grand-parents possibly had a wicked sense of humour ???
A patient we had was called Richard Head. We all thought how unfortunate that was and that his parents could not have realised what they were lumbering their new baby with. Then we discoved the father's name was also Richard Head, so he was deliberately and knowingly giving his son a lifetime of grief being called Dick Head. perhaps he thought that if it was good enough for him then his son could survive it too ???
-
We have Latvian friends who have the same surname - almost. The husband's name ends in ski and the wife's ends in ska. Our Polish neighbours both have the same surname. I think that in Ghana the wife keeps the same surname. A Ghanaian friend kept her name but the children had the father's surname and I thought it was just them but her sister did the same. I'm not sure. Anyone know?
MY ex son-in-law is Zimbabwean and his surname is different to his parents and brothers. He said that when children become adults they can choose their own surname.
That's really interesting. There must be different rules and customs all around the world.
I was reading a book recently where it was mentioned that in the past in (I think) Belgium, women used to sign their names simply as 'eps' (wife) then their husband's name. I get really annoyed when at livestock shows the prize winners are announced by the owner's name, rather than the animal's, but those poor Belgian wives were being subsumed by their husbands and becoming nameless non-persons.
When I got married I was delighted to be rid of my maiden name as I could legitimately dissociate myself from the disreputable menfolk of my birth family just when I needed a new identity :relief: :roflanim:
-
As an accountant, I and other professionals, have female colleagues who became qualified prior to marriage. It was such a faff to get all the certificates and registers changed, not to mention previous accounts signed off, that most of us decided to continue practising in our maiden names.. so effectively we had two lives :roflanim: Our professional name and our married name - it's common in the medical profession too
-
That's really interesting. There must be different rules and customs all around the world.
I was reading a book recently where it was mentioned that in the past in (I think) Belgium, women used to sign their names simply as 'eps' (wife) then their husband's name. I get really annoyed when at livestock shows the prize winners are announced by the owner's name, rather than the animal's, but those poor Belgian wives were being subsumed by their husbands and becoming nameless non-persons.
When I got married I was delighted to be rid of my maiden name as I could legitimately dissociate myself from the disreputable menfolk of my birth family just when I needed a new identity :relief: :roflanim:
It was the same here untill recently you know - in all ex british empire english speaking countries - dr smith got married and his wife was known as mrs dr smith.
Even now - Prince Michael of Kent - and his wife Princess Michael of Kent.
When a Polish king passed away with hisnonly child being a girl (Princess Jadwiga) she was crowned as Jadwiga the KING of Poland and Hungary. As the law didnt even consider having a Queen as the head of state - only a wife of the king. When she married her husband became the king and she was downgraded to queen.
The word for king in Polish is "król", queen is"królowa", where the "-owa" at the end indicates she is the wife of "król-".
With surnames ending with "-ski" it is pretty simple as "ski" is masculine version and "-ska" would be feminine, i.e. daughters, wifes are all "-ska". However with certain otehr types of Polish surnames, like my maternal grandparents mr Piech and his wife mrs Piech (in passport) but people would often call her mrs Piechowa, i.e. indicating that she ks a wife of mr Piech. My mother would have been miss Piechówna, "-ówna" saying daughet of Piech. Her brother would have been Piechowicz, i.e. son of Piech.
In Polish culture it is not really used any more in our generation, but Russian tend to still use it quite a lot - as well as all the ex Russian subjects and collonies (all over central Asia etc).
-
Some other people in the world dont use husbands surnames at all.
I find it really stupid when i heard of some Polish ladies taking their Arab husbands surname.
She is know now as mrs Mohammed, however in Arab culture surname "Mohammed" is simply his fathers first name. She has definitelly not become daughter of Mohammed, only daughter in law. Arab and Somali women keep their own identity. They are not mrs something, they are still daughters of their fathers.
In Chinese culture it was completely opposite - when a lady gets married her husbands ancestors are supposed to become her ancestors - thats how they see it.
-
In Joseph Heller’s Catch-22 there was famously Major Major Major Major.
-
In Joseph Heller’s Catch-22 there was famously Major Major Major Major.
I never did read that book although I think the rest of the World did!
So Major (rank), Major (given name), Major (?), Major (family name) - what was the third 'major'?
I suppose they could have called him John and been EVEN MORE BORING :eyelashes:
-
That's really interesting. There must be different rules and customs all around the world.
I was reading a book recently where it was mentioned that in the past in (I think) Belgium, women used to sign their names simply as 'eps' (wife) then their husband's name. I get really annoyed when at livestock shows the prize winners are announced by the owner's name, rather than the animal's, but those poor Belgian wives were being subsumed by their husbands and becoming nameless non-persons.
When I got married I was delighted to be rid of my maiden name as I could legitimately dissociate myself from the disreputable menfolk of my birth family just when I needed a new identity :relief: :roflanim:
It was the same here untill recently you know - in all ex british empire english speaking countries - dr smith got married and his wife was known as mrs dr smith.
Even now - Prince Michael of Kent - and his wife Princess Michael of Kent.
When a Polish king passed away with hisnonly child being a girl (Princess Jadwiga) she was crowned as Jadwiga the KING of Poland and Hungary. As the law didnt even consider having a Queen as the head of state - only a wife of the king. When she married her husband became the king and she was downgraded to queen.
The word for king in Polish is "król", queen is"królowa", where the "-owa" at the end indicates she is the wife of "król-".
With surnames ending with "-ski" it is pretty simple as "ski" is masculine version and "-ska" would be feminine, i.e. daughters, wifes are all "-ska". However with certain otehr types of Polish surnames, like my maternal grandparents mr Piech and his wife mrs Piech (in passport) but people would often call her mrs Piechowa, i.e. indicating that she ks a wife of mr Piech. My mother would have been miss Piechówna, "-ówna" saying daughet of Piech. Her brother would have been Piechowicz, i.e. son of Piech.
In Polish culture it is not really used any more in our generation, but Russian tend to still use it quite a lot - as well as all the ex Russian subjects and collonies (all over central Asia etc).
Princess Michael of Kent is now something of an abberration (as in its usage). As to why Camilla doesn't get called princess I have no (rational) idea.
All the information about Polish and Russian names is fascinating - thank you, I have wondered. So what scheme is used in modern Poland?
A Polish chap who did some building work for us is called 'Gregor' - a good old Scottish name, but when he spelled it for me in Polish I couldn't understand how that became Gregor - far too many Zs :coat: But then I don't speak Polish although I did make a start with Russian at school.
-
Until relatively recently in posh circles women were often referred to by their husband’s name. Rosemary, for example, would be addressed as Mrs Daniel Champion. Keen gardeners will remember the late Rosemary Verey, the noted plantswoman and garden designer, from her books and TV appearances. She once wrote a book to celebrate female gardeners. Each chapter title was their name: Mrs Andrew Chatto (aka Beth Chatto), Mrs Walter Fish (aka Marjorie Fish) and so on. Rosemary Verey was so posh it seems this bizarrely contradictory way of highlighting the achievements of women did not occur to her or her publisher.
-
Richard Head is a common name, I know of three people with that name.
A Rev. Ball who lived next door to my mother named his children Issac and Isobelle.
-
Slightly off piste, my daughter Sorrel is presently dating someone whose family name is Sorrel !!
She'd be in good company. The footballing Neville brothers' dad was Neville Neville!
I'm still working that one out, but, so far, I'm thinking Neville brothers' grand-parents possibly had a wicked sense of humour ???
A patient we had was called Richard Head. We all thought how unfortunate that was and that his parents could not have realised what they were lumbering their new baby with. Then we discoved the father's name was also Richard Head, so he was deliberately and knowingly giving his son a lifetime of grief being called Dick Head. perhaps he thought that if it was good enough for him then his son could survive it too ???
:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
-
I once worked with someone who, as a social worker, had dealings with a girl called Iona. Fine if her surname hadn't been Dick.
-
I once worked with someone who, as a social worker, had dealings with a girl called Iona. Fine if her surname hadn't been Dick.
Oh thank you so much MGM - I've just finished my post about Mink, then I read this and burst out laughing - cheered me up ;D
-
Easy here in Wales .... only about 5 surnames anyway..... and most are also first names too!! :roflanim: :roflanim:
-
Easy here in Wales .... only about 5 surnames anyway..... and most are also first names too!! :roflanim: :roflanim:
But you have qualifiers in Wales: Jones the Post, Jones the Milk, Ivor the Engine and so on :eyelashes:
-
Easy here in Wales .... only about 5 surnames anyway..... and most are also first names too!! :roflanim: :roflanim:
But you have qualifiers in Wales: Jones the Post, Jones the Milk, Ivor the Engine and so on :eyelashes:
I grew up in South Wales. There were many ‘Dai’s’, so all used their qualifiers. There was even Dai the s**t who emptied septic tanks. This became his everyday name, the abbreviation was ‘Shitty’. Nice guy. I don’t normally swear on the website, but this was the guys name so hope I’ll be be forgiven.
-
Easy here in Wales .... only about 5 surnames anyway..... and most are also first names too!! :roflanim: :roflanim:
But you have qualifiers in Wales: Jones the Post, Jones the Milk, Ivor the Engine and so on :eyelashes:
I grew up in South Wales. There were many ‘Dai’s’, so all used their qualifiers. There was even Dai the s**t who emptied septic tanks. This became his everyday name, the abbreviation was ‘Shitty’. Nice guy. I don’t normally swear on the website, but this was the guys name so hope I’ll be be forgiven.
That's not a swear word - just Anglo-Saxon :)