The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Smallholding => Wildlife => Topic started by: Possum on April 09, 2020, 11:54:49 am

Title: This year's swallows
Post by: Possum on April 09, 2020, 11:54:49 am
Have just seen my first swallow of the year. So excited!  :sunshine:
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on April 09, 2020, 12:07:47 pm
Lovely!  I was just wondering when someone would spot a swallow.  Up here it will be at least a week before they arrive, and last year they didn't arrive with us until early May.


The Ospreys have just about all arrived, although the female at Loch of the Lowes didn't turn up so a new female has moved in there.
At Arkaig, both Louis and Aila arrived safely a few days ago and are busy sprucing up their nest and re-establishing their bonds.  I watch them on a live camera which is addictive  ::) ;D
https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/osprey-cam/ (https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woods-and-wildlife/osprey-cam/)
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Possum on April 09, 2020, 02:16:09 pm
Yes-webcams can be addictive. I am currently watching the one which films the swans at Wells Cathedral. They have laid 9 eggs this year and have just started incubating. It is really relaxing watching them at the end of the day.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Womble on April 09, 2020, 03:12:29 pm
We saw our first two days ago, but I think it carried on going.  Saw another three this morning though, and I can't tell you how happy it made me.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on April 09, 2020, 06:32:13 pm
Looking to the skies , fingers crossed, box of tumble drier lint placed in usual position, covers on the chest freezer lids, and when they arrive ,you can stuff 'yer covid19 , all will be well here.

Edited to add;
just had phone call that mate at 39 Eng Reg't at Kinloss reports arrivals this afternoon   :)
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Womble on April 09, 2020, 08:15:53 pm
covers on the chest freezer lids

A few years ago, I cut a number of squares out of light plywood, and put a string from each corner, as if they were kites.

Now, when we see the swallows nesting, we can hang a 'square' under the nest to catch the crap!
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on April 09, 2020, 09:12:23 pm
covers on the chest freezer lids

A few years ago, I cut a number of squares out of light plywood, and put a string from each corner, as if they were kites.

Now, when we see the swallows nesting, we can hang a 'square' under the nest to catch the crap!

I am nicking that idea ! Brilliant !
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: graemeatwellbank on April 10, 2020, 07:16:00 am
Similar to Womble, I use a small rectangle of aviary mesh suspended by wire under the nests with paper or card on it which is subsequently gets replaced and the dirty one goes straight onto the compost heap.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Possum on April 10, 2020, 09:22:11 am
The one that I saw was flying in a northerly direction at quite some speed. It may well be with you all in Scotland by now. :)
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on April 10, 2020, 11:28:26 pm
Ours are back today,  hassling hubby while he was working in the barn, hard to abandon work he was doing ??? ?. (Any excuse)
Seem to be about a week earlier this year?
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on April 10, 2020, 11:42:07 pm
Can I just mention a warning about dryer lint, apparently they have found it causes problems in nests and with fledglings, not sure if it's the same with undercover nests, but problems when it gets wet. A search on birds nest dryer lint brings websites up.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on April 12, 2020, 06:48:11 pm
Can I just mention a warning about dryer lint, apparently they have found it causes problems in nests and with fledglings, not sure if it's the same with undercover nests, but problems when it gets wet. A search on birds nest dryer lint brings websites up.
A good point, luckily ours all nest indoors , and they are not adverse to plundering next doors fences for wool !
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on April 12, 2020, 07:02:53 pm
Haven't seen ours today, maybe they just stopped by to see what their old homestead looked like.
Hope they come back and weren't too cross with hubby.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on April 17, 2020, 11:28:18 pm
Still no swallows here  :( .  Looking at the forecast, we are due easterlies, or north easterlies, for the next 12 days.  The first southerlies are not due until the 29th, so any swallows trying to arrive before that will have a long flap into wind to get here.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Anke on April 18, 2020, 12:22:27 pm
Still no swallows here  :( .  Looking at the forecast, we are due easterlies, or north easterlies, for the next 12 days.  The first southerlies are not due until the 29th, so any swallows trying to arrive before that will have a long flap into wind to get here.
Same here, been looking out every time I am near the goat shed.... but none so far.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Backinwellies on April 19, 2020, 08:08:38 am
Only 2 here so far …..  am hoping we get more yet as numbers seem to have been dropping over last 4 years despite them producing 2 or even 3 hatches each year.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on April 19, 2020, 11:35:45 am
They've arrived !!  :sunshine: :sunshine: :sunshine:
2 swallows napping in the sun on the steading roof , hope the rest follow soon
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on April 19, 2020, 01:29:24 pm
Ours were in the barn then disappeared for a while, saw them outside but not in the barn, I think they were feeding up before getting on with nesting, in there telling me off this morning, and something else with a very sharp high pitched short peeps, telling me its her home now, get out human,  :) . Couldn't see who it was though.
Sorry Mrs bird, have to do my own jobs in there,  (goats  :) ).
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: mab on April 19, 2020, 03:08:34 pm

Still not seen any of 'my' swallows, hope they're ok. Have heard the 1st cuckoo though :)
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: arobwk on April 19, 2020, 05:26:33 pm
Nor here and, in my case, not a "dickie bird" from a cuckoo either, although the cuckoo flowers are out. 

I did, though, catch a red legged partridge soaking up the sun on top of one of my stone walls just recently.  (I didn't catch the slightest sign of them all last year.) 
It didn't fly off when I stopped to observe so hopefully at least one pair (maybe the 2018 pair) has decided to give my patch a go (or another go).
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on April 19, 2020, 06:59:30 pm
First one here today - flew in and out of the barn, so clearly knows the set-up  :sunshine:   :yippee: :yippee:


That's summer here then, and no rain forecast before May 2nd - they'll be stuck for mud to build their nests  :(   We'll need to make a puddle somewhere  :idea:
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: TheGirlsMum on April 19, 2020, 10:42:29 pm
Our first two arrived this morning  :excited:

Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on April 20, 2020, 06:07:08 pm
bit of a too do this afternoon , 3 swallows making a lot of noise around the workshop doors, yes of course I opened them, end window now left open as in previous years. Mud puddle created in the yard , how bloody silly, an elderly man using molehill spoil to make a mud patch for the birds !
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Womble on April 20, 2020, 07:00:33 pm
Not silly at all.

We had a pair whose nest kept falling off the wall, so I put a row of screws in either side of it and then put a new piece of copper wire across as a support each day, until they'd finished nest, with the wire incorporated into the nest. That thing was absolutely bomb proof once it dried!!
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: RCTman on April 20, 2020, 07:45:49 pm
First arrivals today
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Anke on April 22, 2020, 08:15:24 am
Swallows here this morning - finally!
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on April 22, 2020, 12:33:00 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: RCTman on April 22, 2020, 08:34:28 pm
Cuckoo here this morning.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: in the hills on April 22, 2020, 08:44:55 pm
First swallows spotted here in Mid Wales two days ago ..... April 19th.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Backinwellies on April 23, 2020, 07:35:59 am
my two have begun repairing their previous nests …. and now waiting for mates to arrive.   
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Womble on April 24, 2020, 08:36:35 am
Plus our first cuckoo yesterday  :)


Followed by my first midgie bite!  :-[
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on April 24, 2020, 01:15:37 pm
Been a strange winter,  loads of midges round for ages, in fact any mild day during winter I've seen swarms of them, not biting though.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Anke on April 24, 2020, 02:03:43 pm
Well seems that the swallows here a couple of days ago have decided the goatshed is not up to standards anymore... haven't seen them since, even though weather is fantastic?
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on April 24, 2020, 03:42:36 pm
We have had 2 lots who seem to have arrived, spent some time in the barn and gone again.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Anke on May 01, 2020, 09:25:08 pm
Still no swallows here! I am getting quite worried. We did see a pair flying about today, but not near the goathouse or the field. We usually have three or four nests in the goathouse alone!
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: mab on May 01, 2020, 11:24:56 pm
one's shown up here and is doing nest maintenance; i have seen another flying around but am not certain it is the mate of the nest builder or not...
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on May 02, 2020, 11:18:38 am
Ours seem to have been and gone  :( .


Just wondering.
Last year I don't thing the second brood hatched, or didn't make it, I remember her sitting, but no babies lined up on the bars trying test flights.
If anything is left in the old nest would that put them off the barn completely?
First year no swallows :'(
Nest is way up at the top, on girder at centre of barn we can't reach it to look in.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on May 02, 2020, 11:53:57 am
I would think that swallows are unlikely to abandon nesting at the place they know.  They are though likely to abandon a particular nest.  There could be any reason for this, including that bees, wrens  or something similar have taken over the old nest.
They could well be choosing another nest site and are starting to build.


We have three pairs here now and one pair have very excitedly decided on a new nest in a lean-to.  Frustrating for us as this was the year we intended to demolish it  ::)


We usually knock down any nests in the poultry houses during the winter, because swallows and hens share red mite as a pest, so if the mites overwinter in a swallow nest, then any nestlings are likely to be overwhelmed by the blood suckers.  We also knock down nests which have been predated, because predators have long memories and would just come back the following year - making the swallows choose a different site and rebuild from scratch seems a good move.  Also predated nests have usually been half destroyed anyway.


@Anke don't give up yet!  Our swallows arrived late last year, well into May, but still managed two broods each.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on May 02, 2020, 08:22:09 pm
the majority of ours were late last year, still more to come yet ,I hope as only 12 here but nesting already.
Fleecewife; interesting about knocking down predated nests , I will keep that in mind for next year.
Anke; its early yet, keep the faith.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on May 14, 2020, 01:45:11 pm
Making my day , the first swallows have had a hatching  :excited: :excited: :excited:
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: arobwk on May 14, 2020, 08:44:37 pm
Making my day , the first swallows have had a hatching  :excited: :excited: :excited:

Hatching ! - I'm still scanning the skies in hope.  (And still no cuckoo from a cuckoo either.)
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Penninehillbilly on May 15, 2020, 12:34:09 am
We had some move in about a week ago, I didn't dare put anything on here because when I did before, they left.
Hope these stay, think they've built a new nest or renovated a very old one, not the one they've used the lsst couple of years.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Buttermilk on May 15, 2020, 09:14:34 am
No housemartins here yet this year.  Lots of cuccoo noise though.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on May 15, 2020, 12:37:07 pm
We have never had a cuckoo within hearing distance here in 25 years, and hardly any house martins :(
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Anke on May 15, 2020, 06:33:08 pm
We have never had a cuckoo within hearing distance here in 25 years, and hardly any house martins :(
Same here, no cuckoo (we have been here for over 13 years now), but the first pair of swallows is deciding where top build/revamp a nest in the goathouse. Only one pair though?
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: mab on May 15, 2020, 10:34:39 pm
I'm almost positive my pair are here and nesting, but they seem to disappear at times for a day or so - I guess i'll know for sure if/when eggs hatch.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on May 16, 2020, 01:17:25 am
We have never had a cuckoo within hearing distance here in 25 years, and hardly any house martins :(
Same here, no cuckoo (we have been here for over 13 years now), but the first pair of swallows is deciding where top build/revamp a nest in the goathouse. Only one pair though?

At least they have arrived!  Even if no more come this year, the numbers will build up again and get back to normal for next year.  The swallows here seem to spend all their time shreiking and playing on the wind, then zooming into the barn and back out.  One day there will be a crash when they come out at our head height at full speed.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on May 16, 2020, 09:44:37 am
We have never had a cuckoo within hearing distance here in 25 years, and hardly any house martins :(
Same here, no cuckoo (we have been here for over 13 years now), but the first pair of swallows is deciding where top build/revamp a nest in the goathouse. Only one pair though?

At least they have arrived!  Even if no more come this year, the numbers will build up again and get back to normal for next year.  The swallows here seem to spend all their time shreiking and playing on the wind, then zooming into the barn and back out.  One day there will be a crash when they come out at our head height at full speed.
Been there ! dont know who was more surprised , handy tip , keep your mouth shut,just saying . :D
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on May 16, 2020, 12:24:22 pm
We have never had a cuckoo within hearing distance here in 25 years, and hardly any house martins :(
Same here, no cuckoo (we have been here for over 13 years now), but the first pair of swallows is deciding where top build/revamp a nest in the goathouse. Only one pair though?

At least they have arrived!  Even if no more come this year, the numbers will build up again and get back to normal for next year.  The swallows here seem to spend all their time shreiking and playing on the wind, then zooming into the barn and back out.  One day there will be a crash when they come out at our head height at full speed.
Been there ! dont know who was more surprised , handy tip , keep your mouth shut,just saying . :D

 :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: arobwk on May 18, 2020, 01:23:42 am
At last! 
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on May 27, 2020, 12:41:26 pm
I am over the moon.  Today we have house martins having a good look at the artificial nests we put up for them a couple of years ago. We put these up because martins had previously had a couple of disastrous nest falls, but the boxes had been ignored last year.  I so hope the boxes meet with the birds' approval and we have martins nesting again.  One box is directly above our front door, but an advantage of lockdown is that we won't be having any visitors who would need to duck!
We first noticed the martins as they were zooming around greeting the swallows already here.  They do seem to interact.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on May 28, 2020, 12:26:41 am
Tomorrow we shall have to roughen up the surface of the artificial nest as the mud the martins are trying to add to make the entrance hole smaller will not adhere.  I don't know where they are getting their mud as it's bone dry here but what they are adding is damp - perhaps they add a whole lot of spit.


My inbox says there's a reply here from @in the hills  but it has not come through to my screen  ???
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: in the hills on May 28, 2020, 07:52:25 am
I replied on this thread by mistake FW but Dan kindly moved my reply to the thread ..... Call of the Curlew.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: chrismahon on May 28, 2020, 08:20:50 am
We had swallows the first year nesting in the garage. The second year they arrived and flew away- I was painting a coop and the place stank of solvent. This year they arrived again and again flew away- I was working in there and have increased the lighting level 10 fold so it's a bit bright. Perhaps next year?


Last year we had hundreds of swallows gathering on the electricity cables to the house. They almost looked too heavy for it and when a Kestrel buzzed them they all took off simultaneously and made the cable swing.



We have a cuckoo in the woods but have never seen it. We also have the Golden Orioles back but haven't seen them yet this year. The Hoopoe have returned and are nesting nearby- one landed 3 metres from us but got frightened off by the chickens guarding their feeder. We also have a pair of Black Redstarts nesting above the old bread oven- one of the fledgelings was on the roof yesterday. They will be safe from the Jays and Magpies in there so may return, unless the Barn Owl scares them off.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on May 28, 2020, 09:49:48 pm
Tomorrow we shall have to roughen up the surface of the artificial nest as the mud the martins are trying to add to make the entrance hole smaller will not adhere.  I don't know where they are getting their mud as it's bone dry here but what they are adding is damp - perhaps they add a whole lot of spit.


My inbox says there's a reply here from @in the hills  but it has not come through to my screen  ???
we made a muddy puddle in the yard for the birds, well frequented.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on May 28, 2020, 11:30:12 pm
We did that for the swallows until it rained RtB, but our soil is so free draining that it was impossible to keep the soil wet, especially as we rely on stored rainwater and a well, with no mains, so not much water to spare. I assume the martins pop down to the stream which is a field away, or the burn which is about a mile away.  There seem to be 5 martins all around one nest - there is another nest box, but they are ignoring it.  They have knocked off most of the mud they added today, so we need to have another think of how to make mud stick!  Any ideas?
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Anke on August 06, 2020, 10:06:42 pm
Our swallows have raised one brood this years successfully, but no second? We only had two nests this year (one in the goatshouse and one in the garden shed - which doubles as a nursery for the goat kids), and both had one brood each, they are still around, but not sleeping inside anymore and have made no attempts to raise a second batch. Don't know why...


Anyone else got similar experiences?
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: mab on August 06, 2020, 11:31:16 pm
mine have raised one so far; they arrived during the dry weather but didn't actually produce a brood for ages - i was beginning to think they weren't going to when suddenly the nest was occupied.


they're all flying now but i am wondering if they'll raise a 2nd brood as the 1st was so late.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on August 06, 2020, 11:49:43 pm
Similar here but then suddenly one of the nests started to sound cheepy again and the parent birds are feeding chicks. Another nest already has a second brood too.  The martins produced 3 or 4 chicks which fledged with great excitement and now I'm fairly sure the parents are sitting on more eggs.
It's in their best interests to be quite quiet when sitting so as not to attract predators, but then there's no disguising the sounds of a nest full of swallow or martin chicks!
I think we have 3 or 4 swallow nests this year which seems not too bad considering the weird weather and the late start.  There seem to be plenty of flies and the birds are often patrolling around the sheep, just a couple of feet above the ground, even in the rain.


Perhaps if yours are really not trying for a second brood then perhaps they don't feel they are in good enough condition to do so.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: zwartbles on August 09, 2020, 09:56:09 am
No house martins for us last year but some returned and raised young this year.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: zwartbles on August 09, 2020, 10:02:15 am
Very entertaining. They go of for the day and then return early evening and appear to spend some time doing an orientation flight so that the kids know where they live!
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on September 07, 2020, 06:11:04 pm
About a week to go until migration and we still have two nests with chicks in.  One has two which look ready to leap - I think they'll go tomorrow when the wind dies down a bit, but the other nest has four in and they are younger, with fluff on their heads.  I'm wondering if these are being fed by only one parent as they are growing more slowly than usual.  I wonder what chance they have of making it to Africa?


The last of the Loch Arkaig ospreys left yesterday.  One bird from this nest reached Somerset a fortnight ago and has stayed until yesterday too, filling up with fish before heading on.  JJ6 - some of you may have seen him on twitter.  He was the first to hatch at Loch Arkaig this year and the first to set off south.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on September 07, 2020, 06:23:13 pm
ours are showing the signs too, mealworm pate is on the menu , we also have very young'uns on the point of fledging , I think it will be like last year , an adult or two to look after them. Then time to clean up after them.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Possum on September 08, 2020, 10:56:12 am
Ours have been lining up on the telephone wires for a few days now. Always sad to see them go but at least we can look forward to flocks of chattering starlings taking their place.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on September 12, 2020, 08:25:10 pm
The day I hate ,   first light a lot of noise as they gathered and a while later they had mostly gone .
A count I can see 7/8 young in flight and a nest of week old hatchlings . :'(
Hope they will be ok  :fc:  fingers crossed for the young ones that the weather is kind to them and they remember to come back.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on September 13, 2020, 12:40:58 am
Our adults are still around and both late nests have now fledged, but the chicks are still at the puffed up stage and coming back inside when it rains.
Last year we still had unfledged nestlings when most adults migrated, but the parents stayed a while to get them fledged, then left and the young left about a month later, joining up with late leavers from further north.
I hope the parents of your nestlings have stuck around.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Rupert the bear on September 13, 2020, 10:26:10 pm
Our adults are still around and both late nests have now fledged, but the chicks are still at the puffed up stage and coming back inside when it rains.
Last year we still had unfledged nestlings when most adults migrated, but the parents stayed a while to get them fledged, then left and the young left about a month later, joining up with late leavers from further north.
I hope the parents of your nestlings have stuck around.
I have just come in from the steading , there are 2 adults 9 juveniles and a nest of an unknown number .
Its quite warm and humid this evening and the bats are out in force .
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Womble on September 14, 2020, 12:00:01 am
We still have two nestfuls in our garage. They're second broods, but even then, they're cutting it a bit fine I think.


I would also like them to get a move-on please, since I want to grind the lumps off the floor in there and paint it. If only I'd got it done before they arrived!
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on September 15, 2020, 06:54:51 pm
I don't want our swallows to leave quite yet - there are so many mozzies, gnats, midgies and every other biting flying insect you can think of which they need to eat up for us before they go. Midgies have only been this far south and this far inland for about the past 10 or 15 years - when we moved here there were none.  Now we have to adopt the Highland way of retreating indoors when the vicious little blighters emerge.
Just noticed yet another late nest has fledged, so that will be well into October before they can head south.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Ghdp on September 16, 2020, 07:57:07 pm
Our last lot fledged today! So beautiful to see but boy are they cutting it fine. They are, we think, a third brood. Is that possible?
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on September 17, 2020, 01:35:33 am
Our last lot fledged today! So beautiful to see but boy are they cutting it fine. They are, we think, a third brood. Is that possible?

Yes, there are frequently third broods here if the swallows have arrived on time in spring.  This year and last year they arrived late and there were no third broods
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Possum on September 19, 2020, 10:23:32 pm
Most of ours went on Monday or Tuesday but the churchwarden reported that the third nest of the year in the church porch was still occupied. (Since no-one has been going into the church via the porch since March the swallows had taken full advantage). However, we were all relieved to hear that they left on Thursday. I do hope the youngsters are strong enough to make it to Africa.  :fc:
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Fleecewife on September 20, 2020, 12:36:15 am
Most of ours left yesterday (18th).  No fanfare, no big massing on the wires, just gone. There are ten left, from the three recently fledged nests, still just babies happy catching flies.  I expect them to take 2 or 3 more weeks to get ready to leave. Usually more come by from further north and wait around here for a day or two then they all go together.
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: Anke on September 20, 2020, 05:27:56 pm
I think ours went during the week as well, haven't seen any for the last two days... we only had the one pair left, which had a late 2nd brood.


So, time to put the wood burner back on...
Title: Re: This year's swallows
Post by: sabrina on September 22, 2020, 01:08:04 pm
I counted around 9/10 this morning sitting on the wire.