The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Techniques and skills => Topic started by: oor wullie on April 05, 2020, 09:25:41 pm
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Over the last 8 years I've put in quite a lot of fencing, mostly with 85mm machined round, treated posts. I'm now finding that some have rotted completely through. Others are fine and the rotted ones are in fairly dry ground so I suspect I've had good batches of posts and bad batches.
Needless to say I'm keen that on my next Fencing project I use posts that don't rot quite so quick. When I mentioned this to the fence post supplier he suggested that peeled posts should be a bit more durable.
Has anyone any thoughts on if this is true or not? I guess they are a bit thicker at the base (75-100mm grade) and the fibres along the grain are still intact so they might be.
I think I heard that posts today should be better than 10 years ago as sawmills have learned that you have to dry the posts to get them to soak in the treatment but I no longer have much confidence in them.
I guess the other option is creosote posts but they are probably not the best when I have a toddler who goes around licking things (as well as being expensive).
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No idea on your question but would using metal (e.g. Clipex, Versalok or similar) or recycled plastic posts (e.g. https://www.kedel.co.uk/mixed-plastic-lumber/SG045130.html?keyword=&matchtype=&network=u&device=c&gclid=CjwKCAjwg6b0BRBMEiwANd1_SLc7wSZlBZ7NElEO3-_RypjCnQEcG4pGrcCqP01eQQkQzXX_mNqm7RoCQTgQAvD_BwE (https://www.kedel.co.uk/mixed-plastic-lumber/SG045130.html?keyword=&matchtype=&network=u&device=c&gclid=CjwKCAjwg6b0BRBMEiwANd1_SLc7wSZlBZ7NElEO3-_RypjCnQEcG4pGrcCqP01eQQkQzXX_mNqm7RoCQTgQAvD_BwE)) be an option? More expensive initially - although the latter depends on what thickness you go for - but can't rot.
Anyone have experience of the recycled plastic ones?
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Can't answer in terms of suppliers, but I have also done a load of fencing over the last 13yrs. The first fences I put up 11-13yrs ago have been repaired, but I do find quite a few of the posts have lasted very well. The posts from 8yrs ago have lasted very badly though, they have rotted at ground level but also the tops of the posts have rotted and water seeped down the inside of the post rotting it from the inside out. Total waste of my time and money.
I'd definately pay a bit more for posts that have a garantee on them next project I have
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I have a mix of machined and peeled posts that I have had over the last 11 years, purchased on price, and found the peeled posts have not gone rotten where as most of the machined post have. I only buy peeled posts now, my neighbour uses machined posts " because they look better" but is always replacing them. I will stick with "rustic" posts, hope this helps.
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I don't think the preservatives used now are as good as they used to be. We have machined square oak posts around the vegetable plot which are 20 years old now, the bottoms are rotting and they are all being replaced. We have bought Acacia natural round posts which are rather rustic looking but match all our neighbours fencing. Whilst they are only €2.50 each they need peeling, which is a long-winded job with a billhook, however leaving any bark on means water is trapped behind and they quickly rot.
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Unfortunately the pressure creosoted posts are the ones which last the longest. Failing that we soak the pointed ends of posts in a drum of creosote from receiving them to using, which can be up to a year.
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Unfortunately the pressure creosoted posts are the ones which last the longest. Failing that we soak the pointed ends of posts in a drum of creosote from receiving them to using, which can be up to a year.
I totally agree. If you can get proper creosote and soak the posts for ages they last for ever. Look at telegraph poles. You can now get treated round posts with a 15 year guarantee. I get them from BATA. Although whether BATA will still be there in say 12 years if the posts have rotted is another matter. I shall certainly have no idea by then where the receipt for the posts will be.
However - 30 years ago we bought a wooden fence + posts from Jacksons. They were meant to have had a special treatment called Jacure (or something similar) and had a 25 year guarantee. i must admit that at the time I was sceptical. But that fence and wooden posts are still sound! Jacksons are still on the go and still produce guaranteed fencing, and I don't believe they are that much more expensive now than any others'. (I haven't looked for a while.)
Last year, having had a long length of fencing posts collapse after only 8 years, I decided to give clipex a go. They are metal posts guaranteed for @ 25 years and although more expensive than wooden, would work out cheaper in time and labour in the long run. I would not particularly recommend them. The clipex system for attaching the wire is badly designed and the corner post arrangement needlessly complicated and unbelievably expensive. You could achieve a corner of equal rigidity at a fraction of the cost by using angle iron.
By far the most well designed metal fencing I have come across is vineyard posts. These consist of galvanised S section posts with rigid upward facing hooks about every 2 " all the way down to ground level. These clips are so easy just to hang your stock netting or barbed wire on. Furthermore, you can knock the posts in next to your wooden post that has rotted and so quickly rejuvenate your fence without having to scrap the rolls of perfectly good stock netting which are attached to the rotted posts. I bought about 300 of these as new old stock from a chap who had just bought them as a job lot. Unfortunately you can't normally get them in this country. These came from France and cost new an awful lot more than the £1.50 each that I paid.
EDIT - just looked up and Hadleys supply them. They don't say how much, but it's probably a lot cheaper to import a container load from China if you were thinking of getting some.
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Black sheep and landroverroy have both mentioned metal fence posts/systems and it seems to me there is an ever-growing list of manufacturers/options (albeit many are actually targeted towards vineyard requirements).
I’ve used Clipex, but, as I’ve commented elsewhere, Hampton Steel have now developed their systems considerably/usefully since I first took a look: I seem to think their Versalok system will be rather more versatile than their original Staplelok system.
Metal “system corners” do tend to be expensive, but one can always install a traditional timber arrangement instead – mix and match – or design you own arrangement, as I did, using readily available scaffolding components mated to Clipex Beefy posts/bracing brackets.
I note lrr’s comment about “badly designed” Clipex attachment: I have to say that, for a plain line-wire fence, it’s a real doddle, but easiest stock mesh installation would be achieved with matching stock mesh design.
([member=6533]landroverroy[/member], I’d be most interested in hearing your Clipex/stock mesh experiences in more detail.)
As much as I prefer the notion of fencing with timber, metal systems are almost certainly easier to install and potentially will last longer.
I hear the recommends re creosoted posts, but I thought creosote was long since banned: could someone explain to me why/how creosote products are still available ??
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anyone know how much clipex post are can't find a price
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Some time ago the EU took the decision to ban the amateur use of creosote as a precautionary measure, because of concerns around the impacts of creosote on human health and the environment. As a result, amateurs have not been able to use creosote since 2003. Approvals for professional and industrial use of creosote products were allowed to continue. But these approvals, made under the EU Biocidal Products Regulation (BPR), place restrictions on the type of products and on where wood treated with creosote can be used.
Under the BPR, creosote is authorised for sale, supply and use in the UK until 29 March 2021. However, until recently the future use had only been approved for railway sleepers, highways fencing and overhead electricity and telecommunication poles. Wood treaters had been facing the situation where in April this year they were stopped from refilling storage tanks to treat stakes, poles and fencing for agricultural use, and this week the period to use-up those existing stocks came to an end.
Creosote suppliers had applied to extend the current authorisation to allow the treatment of stakes, poles and fencing for agricultural uses. This extension was finally agreed by HSE last week, such that these uses are now allowed to continue uninterrupted.
We understand that creosote manufacturers are looking to apply for authorisation of creosote beyond March 2021. The NFU has been working with Wood Protection Association to secure the continuing use of creosote in agricultural situations and thanks them for their support on this issue.
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anyone know how much clipex post are can't find a price
Check out McVeigh Parker.
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There is a lot of helpful replies here :thumbsup:
I've committed to putting in 200m of peeled posts this summer but I've got another 150m or so to do in a different place so I think I might do that with metal posts.
I've got 2 telegraph poles which should keep me in strainers for this year. I'm sure I read about BT replacing a pole in Orkney that been installed just over 100 years ago - the pole was fine but they had to move the route of the wires so it had to go.
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[member=157890]valmet10[/member][/font][/color]
Ah, I see McVP have obscured item prices right now & have more or less shut up shop for the time being. So, in case you wish to do some rough comparative costings in the mean time, here's some indicative prices for various bits from my 2016 Clipex purchases record. To note, however, I'm a bit confused about my orders this far on: my 1st order was for a wide range of trial items (nothing better than seeing them all in the flesh). My eventual order for my Roe deer/rabbit fence was for the "Universal" posts, which I don't think they do anymore (Universal beefy was item CL2722 and standard Uni' was item CL2717).
Anyway for what it's worth, my Nov 2016 price list VATex:
Universal beefy CL2722 - £11.45
Universal standard CL 2717- £6.75
Pasture post CL2705 - £3.95
Eco post CL2710 - £4.95
Beefy post bracket (for end-post bracing) CL2765 - £10.00 (Designed to take Clipex bracing strut, but I concocted alternative bracing arrangement utilising the brackets.)
My trial purchase was in May 2016 and included these additional items:
Railway/Cattle beefy CLR2720 - £8.89
R/C standard CLR2710 - £5.65
Standard post CL2715 - £5.55
+ post-driver sleeves (to protect the posts' galvanising coat when driving them in)
Beefy sleave CL2793 - £31.90
Eco/Standard sleave CL2790 - £26.65
Final comment: McV P have at least 2 UK depots, but have a minimum order limit and charge for delivery from their depots if purchased direct. So I rang them to to find out what agri' stores they supplied in my area: luckily one was very nearby and I ordered through them avoiding the minimum order limit and a McVP delivery charge. The retailer charged me exactly same price as per McVP web-site and didn't charge me for delivery either :)
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That's really helpful arobwk, thanks.
Timber prices have gone up quite a lot in the past 2 years which I assume have fed through to the price of wooden posts. This will make non-woden alternatives a bit more cost competitive than they were a couple of years ago.
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Of course, one would need to make a guess at price increases since 2016.
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How do you leave the posts in creosote for a year? Especially if you have a large number of them? Doesn't the creosote start to evaporate?
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after a lot of research we used creosoted 'octoposts'. Little more cost but if they do what they say on the tin will prove to be long lasting and value for money (which from the research i have done appears they will?). Only been in 18months so can't comment further - other than that one was broken during winter storms by a flying roof sheet - and inside was good as new. Same company also I believe provide telegraph poles - agree with other comments about these. Proper creosote is the only worthwhile treatment - others have had the useful ingredients removed! As an option I believe people used to soak posts in waste engine oil - maybe some untreated posts and just soak the bottom bit to make the licking safe apart from tongue splinters? :D We also used about 90 chestnut posts untreated which a local chap swears by - time will tell. But has to be better than HC4 (etc) softwood. We have some very old chestnut paling in remarkably good condition - but obviously above ground. last thought (but expensive - i looked!) recycled plastic posts are available.