The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Food & crafts => Crafts => Topic started by: morri2 on October 19, 2010, 04:31:48 pm
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Wonder if any handspinners out there can give me a bit of advice. I am hoping to start keeping a flock of sheep purely for fleeces. I have purchased four Bowmonts (from Anke) to make a start and am awaiting the results of a wool count. One of these days I hope to get myself a spinning wheel - but not immediately as I don't have enough time at the moment. I also have Polled Dorsets, three of which have, oddly enough, turned out either black (or rather brownish) with some white patches. They are actually really cute given their teddy bear faces. I believe Dorset fleeces are good for spinning too (please put me right if not). I seem to have heard somewhere that coloured fleeces are quite popular with handspinners and so, rather than sell them perhaps I should keep hold of them for their fleeces. Any input would be gratefully received. :wave:
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Hi Caroline, try and find your local Spinner's guild, (http://www.wsd.org.uk/guilds.htm) then have a chat with them. if you have good fleeces then selling them at the likes of Wonderwool Wales or the Woolfest @ Cockermouth would be an option, for that they can normally be just "off the sheep". I found spinners quite keen to try Bowmont fleeces, but they often prefer to buy washed and carded, which is a lot of work or expensive to get done through the likes of Whoolyshepherd (but probably very good quality). Talk to her about prices, and also to spinners about what they pay for good fleeces like Polwarth or Merino (also check websites of the likes of Fibrecraft or similar) for comparison.
But once bitten by the spinning bug I know the fleeces will accumulate in your garage/shed - they do in mine and I cannot bring myself to throw them out.... but have started to spin again a lot in the evenings - if I don't spend it all on TAS....
I don't really know about Dorsets though, as they are not really a sheep for Scotland.... I have played about (on my spinnig wheel) with different colours of Shetlands, and really liked the results, so if you have several colours on the one sheep that might be very interesting. Spinners like Jacobs for that reason.
Also companies like Scottish Fibres (or similar in Wales) might be interested in buying fleeces, which they then wash/card for selling on, not sure what they would pay though.
If you put a Bowmont fleece into the fleece section of your local show you should be in with a fair chance of winning, unless someone has really good Polwarths or Merinos.
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Thanks Anke, thats really helpful. Plenty there for me to think about. I really like the idea of spinning some of my own wool and knitting clothes (I can actually knit!). I just need a bit more time to devote to it. In the meantime, I have given the bag of wool you kindly donated with the Bowmonts to a friend of mine who spins - on the basis that she lets me have a ball of wool back so I can try it out. Can't wait to see what its like. All the best :wave:
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You can have great fun cross-breeding to produce interesting fleeces for spinning. A Jacob tup over a white ewe will produce coloured fleece. I used to keep several interesting ewes and tried various combinations including using Jacob and Shetland tups on both pure-bred and crossed ewes.
Don't forget though that not every spinner wants the finest fleeces. You can buy ready-to-spin Merino in every colour imaginable for peanuts, so many spinners will not see the point in going through all the effort of dealing with a raw Merino fleece. But spinners soon get tired of the bought stuff and want something with a bit more character. I certainly found that being a spinner helped my understanding of the properties of the fleece of each of my 'fleece specials', so I could help buyers to choose something suitable for their project. I kept a small wether flock for several years, and their fleeces were top quality, without the stresses of lambing which ewes go through, and without the tuppy smell added by rams.
Although you are busy, it would be worth making a small start with your spinning to help your knowledge of what you are breeding.
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I've heard that wethers produce good fleeces somewhere before. Why is that, is it just luck of the draw, or is it a 'man' thing?
To be honest, its not the spinning which is preventing me making a start, but the time it takes to card the wool. Oh! and I need to buy the equipment too. At the moment I'm trying to get through my MA dissertation, which I hope to finish by April so once that's out of the way (if it doesn't end up dragging on until the following April), then I'll have more time available. I'm a complete beginner to wool processing, although I am doing lots of research into fleeces/breeds etc. Would a drum carder be a lot quicker than the hand version? Thanks!
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Wendsleydales?Leics longwools etc etc?
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Drumcarders are quicker than the hand version, but very expensive. If you buy secondhand (I have so far not succeeded they are rarely available from trusted sources - other than ebay) you have to be sure it is working properly. They are easily broken or don't run properly. If you are a beginner it is best to start with the two hand carders. I always wash my fleeces with Ecover washing up liquid before carding, as I don't want to ruin my spinning wheel/carders and prefer the wool not be smelly...
well off to do some spinning now....
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I was told by Wooly Shephard that Ryeland wool is good. I sold mine on ebay this year and got good prices, I am not lucky enough to have a spinning wheel so can't spin my own but I am trying felting with my other x breed fleeces
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Hi! Ellisr, if you don't mind me asking, what did you get for your fleeces? You don't have to tell me if you don't want to - but a rough idea would be helpfull. Cheers!
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I got between £7 and £12, I kept a couple back as I was hoping to get a spinning wheel but that hasn't happened yet
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Thanks Ellisr, thats a good price indeed. I must get around to getting myself some equipment one of these days too, so I can have a go myself. It would be great to have a hand knitted pullie from my own sheep!
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Caroline, I know you are sorted for a ram, but there is also a flock of Bowmonts in Devon (but is that further away from you than Boders??), They are www.devonfinefibrers.co.uk.
Regards, Anke
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Hi Anke, thanks for that. Yes, I know about the Devon company, I have have been in contact with them by email a number of times. They are very helpful, but could not provide me with a ram, not this year at least.
Miss Campbell has withdrawn her ram lamb from sale since our last communication, he's growing too slowly, so is holding him back. She has, however, given me another couple of phone numbers for other Bowmont breeders in Scotland. I might put them to my Dorset ram this year though. I am told Dorset/Bowmont cross would produce a good fleece until I can get properly sorted with a Bowmont ram. :wave:
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I've heard that wethers produce good fleeces somewhere before. Why is that, is it just luck of the draw, or is it a 'man' thing?
To be honest, its not the spinning which is preventing me making a start, but the time it takes to card the wool. Oh! and I need to buy the equipment too. Would a drum carder be a lot quicker than the hand version? Thanks!
I think wethers produce better fleece simply because they don't have the stresses of lambbearing which ewes have. Any stress on the animal, such as an illness will produce a check in wool growth, which shows as weakness in the fibre. Tup fleece tends to smell horrible, but wethers don't suffer from that.
You don't need expensive equipment to make a start on spinning. I can remember trying to go the bulk route myself, but really all you need is a spindle and a pair of hand cards. That way you will be learning from the feel of what you are doing at each stage. You won't produce much yarn, although it is possible to get very quick with a spindle, but you will be learning the properties of fleece. 'Spinning' can be taken to refer to all the processes involved in producing yarn, so try not to think of carding as a waste of time and getting in the way before you can start the spinning itself - that is always the quick part.
I recently bought a beautiful hand-turned Turkish spindle which is a delight to use, and very easy to control. It also has the advantage of producing a ball of yarn straight from the spindle. Unfortunately the lady who made it doesn't have a website. (The Ashford equivalent is big and clumsy and not really suitable for fine yarns).I'll see if i can get a pic of it.
Meanwhile, a way of seeing the properties of any fleece you are looking at is to do a small piece of 'finger spinning'. To do this, you take a tiny lock of fleece, open out the tips and butt (work them gently with your fingers until the fibres are separated), roll it into a fluffy tube so the fibres run around it, not lengthways, then draw out some fibres, twisting them as you do so. Continue to draw and twist until you have a few inches of spun yarn, then fold it in half, back on itself to form a short section of two ply yarn. This will show you how freely the fleece spins and the type of yarn you can get from it. It takes a while to get the hang of it at first but it is a good way of assessing a fleece quickly for its spinnability.
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Thanks Fleecewife! I will have a go at that. I still have my Dorset fleeces waiting to go to the wool board, so I'll have a try with one of those. I think I'll have to print out your instructions and keep them somewhere so I don't have to try and do it at the computer!!! :wave:
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Let us know how you get on :)
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Hi! Guess what Fleecewife - just been to feed my rams and my friend Molly who owns the field they are in has just spun a ball of wool from the clippings Anke gave me from my Bowmonts - its gorgeous, really soft and fine. She also showed me how she did it on her spinning wheel. She didn't card it, just fed it straight onto the wheel just like you said, so I had a go too. A more uneven wool but would still make a good jumper!! Really enjoyed my bit of spinning and would think it will be really therapeutic after a stressful day. I'm going on ebay later to see what price I can get a spinning wheel for.
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Whilst your on ebay why don't you pop one of those fleeces on and see if you can get more than the woolboard for them ;D
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Ellisr, you read my mind - just need to go and dig them out of the sheep shed and take a few pics.
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Hi Morri2 - How lovely that you have a friend who can spin and show you how. It's wonderful, isn't it ?!? Lumpy bumpy jumpers are the best ! In fact the lumps and bumps even out once you've plied the yarn. And you can dye your yarn once it's spun into any wonderful colour or pattern you want.
I so nearly bought some Bowmonts at Perth a few years back. The fleeces were superb and I was positively drooling over them. Unfortunately they wouldn't have done well in our local climate so I didn't get them.
Having fleeces which can be spun without carding is such a boon - it will save you ages. I have just a few I can spin that way and I love them.
Good luck with your wheel search - they're addictive too (I have three......)
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Thanks Fleecewife. Have been looking today, not much luck I'm afraid. They are quite expensive and most of those I can afford on ebay are miles from where I live - too far really to consider going to get them. However, I'm hooked now, so I'm going to keep looking until something presents itself, hopefully sooner rather that later. Watch this space........ ;D
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Our local spinners guild sometimes has wheels for sale, if people stop due to age, or if they decide that one of their three wheels is really not being used... Our guild used to have a wheel for hire for beginners - really good I learnt while I saved up for mine!
i would love to have a second wheel so i can spin in the grease, I don't dare using my fabby Lendrum wheel for this! But i think OH would have a fit if I suggested another spinning wheel...
if you are looking for second hand wheels it would be a good idea to have a spinner with you to test the wheel before you buy, often the ones for sale on ebay will have been used a plantholders or other decoration for years and are of no use/or need careful repair. But maybe put an ad in your ocal paper - people have them in their house and never use them anymore...
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Yes, a wanted ad. Never thought of that. I might put a card in the local post office and the farm suppliers too. Thanks for the lead Anke. Cheers!!
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What is a reasonable price for hand carders? A friend has started learning spinning and borrowed a pair to practise but I was wondering if they might be a reasonable christmas present for her?
She might be interested in a fleece or two if and when I get my shetland paddock tidiers, and return me either some carded wool to try felting or a ball of wool to do something useful with ;)
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right folks! you have inspired me via this thread......
so is there anyone close-ish to me (Fife) that could maybe meet up with me and show me what to do here please (rubbish at written instructions!)?
I have a small shetland flock and want to be able to use the wool for felting and also spinning/knitting but have no idea where to start or how to prepare the fleeces.
I am happy to pay/barter for an instruction course.....
thanks in advance
Laura
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Hi Laura I would love to help but am down near Biggar. If no-one else comes forward closer to home for you, and you fancy a day out I will happily give you a demo. There are also various felting videos on Youtube.
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Ellied - handcarders.
I can't remember where I got mine from but a quick trawl through websites - about 30 quid seems to be a general price. Not sure what your budget is. I prefer curved carders, but that's personal preference. Mine are quite chunky, but still very portable.
Now I would love to have a friend who would think about buying me a drumcarder.... but I can dream on...
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Laura, there is Twist Fibrecrafts in Newburgh, very tempting shop, but they do do tuition (not sure if they also do beginners classes or just individual), don't know what they charge. Also check if there is a spinner's guild in Fife - I am sure there is one, they are usually very helpful.
I am in the Borders too, so possibly a bit far for a day's tuition.
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Thanks for the handcarder info :)
I have friends who were up the other day - one does felting and knitting from predyed fleeces and another has just started learning spinning and carding (the one I was asking for). They are getting me interested in having the shetlands again and actually doing something with the produce (I'm vegetarian so the usual isn't much use to me!) as well as keeping them and tidying the land up behind the ponies..
I'm about 3-4 miles from Newburgh so might pop in and see what is on in the way of training too - eek this could be a whole new line for me.. :o
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Well, I've got my spinning wheel - its taken me two weeks to get around to doing anything with it and, quite frankly I'm absolutely rubbish!! Have only just managed to spin a few foot of yarn (uncarded) with my Dorset fleece and I had to hand turn the wheel slowing 'cos using the treadle was too fast. I think this is going to take a while - it will be next year before I get any nice woolly jumpers I think! :D Any tips you guys??
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Learning to spin is abit like learning to drive I think, once you've got the hang of it it looks soooo easy (and you wonder why you couldn't do it before...). It took me a few months to learn... and my initial efforts were used to line the bottom of the compost heap....
If you have a few sessions with your spinning friend it should help a lot...
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Yep!! Think I'll have to go and see Molly...or my fleeces are going to end up lining my compost heap too!! I am enjoying trying though - I'm sure, like you say, once I get the hang of it I'll wonder why on earth I struggled so much at the start. :wave:
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Hi Morri2. It's worth spending some time playing around with pieces of carded, or uncarded, fleece just to see how it works, before you dive in and try it on the wheel. Washed fleece draws better than unwashed, and the length of the fibres governs how far apart your hands need to be when you draw. Did you try finger spinning first?
Don't expect to be spinning fine yarn straight off, but it will come to you after a while
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Hi! Fleecewife. I've been having a go at finger spinning, must admit I'm OK until it gets to the fold it over and make a 2 ply yarn bit and then it just seem to fall apart (not very good at this am I ???). I have also had a go a Molly's wheel when I was first considering trying spinning a few weeks ago. I was quite good too, but probably only because Molly had already washed the fleece and started the yarn off for me. The hardest part so far has been starting the yarn off and getting into a rhythm with it - hence the need to hand turn the wheel. Still, Rome wasn't built in a day so I'll keep practicing and trying to keep my patience!! Watch this space......:D
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Hi Morri2. Have you discovered the magic of how to join in new fleece onto the leader? The little hooks of the fibres catch onto the twisting leader and hold the join all by themselves. Once you have that bit under your belt, it doesn't matter how often your yarn breaks because it's so easy to rejoin.
I think it's well worthwhile to practice wheel control before you try to spin at the same time. I grew up with a treadle sewing machine so have never had a problem with using the wheel that way, but if you are finding you have to turn it by hand, you cannot also spin at the same time, because you need two hands for that. Practice stopping and starting the wheel and treadling slowly. It takes a while to learn to stop it just past top-dead-centre, but it needs to be there to be able to set off again hands-free in the right direction. Another point is that if your wheel is not properly oiled then turning the wheel will always be difficult. I oil mine every couple of days to make sure it runs freely.
With fingerspinning, don't worry if you can't do the folding in half bit (I hook the middle around one of the maiden uprights, a door handle, anything, then bring the two ends together that way). The important bit is to learn about the fleece you are working with by drawing it by hand, seeing how far apart your hands need to be, how thick or thin the particular fleece wants to be spun, and things like that.
Don't try too hard with spinning - relax and enjoy it - let the fleece and the wheel do the work. Your hands are just there to guide the fleece to where it wants to go. Too tense and it doesn't run freely. I find if I'm tired or tense then I can't spin at all and would just rip it all back the next day anyway ;D
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Hi Fleecwife! Thanks yet again for your help! The bit of yarn I managed to construct by handturning the wheel is, to say the least, at bit lumpy!! ;D Definitely need to learn wheel control before I go any further, you are right on that for sure! I am going to see Molly next week (if she's home) and get some more lessons. What oil do you use for your wheel - is it three in one oil??