The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: macgro7 on June 21, 2019, 09:22:05 am
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What breeds/types of sheep do you think have the best wool for knitting?
Shetland?
Leicester/Lincoln Longwool?
Romney?
Something else? What do you prefer and why?
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You have to spin the fleece :spin: first before you can knit :knit: it. It would save a whole lot of hassle if you could knit straight from the sheep ;D
Longwool sheep have, well, long wool, and that is far more difficult to spin than a fleece with a medium staple. In fact some spinners tend to cut the staple length in half for longwool.
For simple, using your flock's fleece, Shetland are probably the easiest to spin and give a nice soft yarn. There are plenty of other breeds with lovely fleeces. Each fleece is used for a slightly different purpose, so you would decide on that purpose before choosing your breed.
As always, we need more info before we can give an opinion.....
[member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member] will be along in a mo no doubt. She has a more extensive knowledge of which breed is best for what purpose.
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Start with what sort of knitting yarn you want, and for what end use. (And might weaving be of interest, too?)
I’ll give a few examples.
Shetland is fine, bouncy and soft, and will full or felt. So it lends itself to jumpers, and can be used for very fine lace shawls etc. It’s not the strongest so isn’t the best for hardwearing socks, and because it felts, is not ideal for cabling. It’s wonderful for woven blankets or shawls; you weave very open, then full hard to make a soft, warm fabric.
Blue-faced Leicester is a fine, soft longwool, very lustrous, will wet felt but doesn’t needlefelt. So it’s ideal for cablework or lacework. And as a longwool, it’s hard wearing, but it’s not harsh, so it makes great socks. But it doesn't full like Shetland, so you wouldn’t choose it for a fair isle pattern.
Ryeland is not harsh, very bouncy, doesn’t wet felt easily. So another one that’s great for a thicker jumper, and can do cabling.
I could go on and on and on :). So give me some idea of what you’re wanting to do.
Longwool sheep have, well, long wool, and that is far more difficult to spin than a fleece with a medium staple. In fact some spinners tend to cut the staple length in half for longwool.
I don’t necessarily agree that longwools are more difficult. Very very short, like Castlemilk Moorit or Southdown, are much harder, in my opinion. But yes, something mid range, like Shetland or Ryeland, can be carded or combed. To card a longwool you probably would cut the staple, but you would comb if you are wanting a yarn to give great stitch definition, or for a warp, etc. Some longwools are much harder to prep for spinning - we say of BFL, “it’s a dream to spin but a nightmare to prep” - but once you have the knack, a lot of people find worstead spinning (where the fibres are parallel) as easy or even easier than woollen (where the fibres are disorganised and a lot of air is incorporated.)
If you would be sending the fleece away to be prepped, or even to be prepped and spun, then you’d probably steer clear of the very long staples as we don’t have many places in the UK which can do a combed prep on a small scale.
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Oh wow
My business is selling knitting yarn - we wholesale to shops, market sellers, home eBay sellers etc.
We sell around a lorry load a month at the moment - so there is a lot of potential for good quality BRITISH wool. All of our stock is imported and most of it is not even wool but acrylic.
I'm still battling with myself wether to choose a breed of sheep (to keep myself) with really nice wool which could be sent of for spinning (don't have time to do it myself...) and just sell either double knit or arran or 4-ply yarn in 100g balls.
There's way too much choice!
Ideally I would prefer a "low maintenance" breed so I guess breeds like Leicester Longwool wouldn't be the best, although I have a soft spot for them as I live in Leicester! We would only have a maximum of 10-20 ewes so not too many. Shetland are obvious choice for lower maintenance. Also I want something that will "respect electric fence.
Another option is shedding sheep... But what am I gonna show to our customers? Sheep with no wool? Lol
I love wooly jumpers. Personally not really interested in socks. Also I like wearing tweed - sheep suitable for that would be nice too.
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If you want to help the British sheep industry, and you’re looking at those sorts of quantities (lorryloads), you could use Mule. She’s the daughter of a Blue-faced Leicester tup on a hill or mountain sheep, and her wool is wonderful, very versatile - and plentiful! You could buy bales direct from BWMB, at their prices, which would leave you a bit of leeway to pay for processing and make a profit. There are regional variants too - Scotch Mule, North of England Mule, Welsh Mule, Exmoor Mule, and so on. And the dad being Blue-faced Leicester might hit your need for a locale-related wool?
If you’re doing hundreds of kilos at a time, you could use the likes of John Arbon for processing. Or maybe even the Curtis empire. I don’t know who else operates at that volume level.
If you’re looking at starting smaller, with 20 sheep of your own, you’d be just about getting enough each year for the likes of Natural Fibre Company (min 20kgs fleece per batch for yarn). Or Halifax Spinning Mill (not in Halifax), who will go down to one fleece to help you get started. One piece of advice would be to skirt the fleeces very hard and only send the very best fibre. Incorporating even only a bit of harsher britch wool would have a seriously negative impact on the handle of the final yarn. ;)
If you prefer one of the rarer breeds, two that could be worth exploring would be Whitefaced Woodland and Derbyshire Gritstone. Both a little north of Leicester, but not a gazillion miles away. Both have surprisingly lovely fleece, good for jumpers, cabling, etc.
Other rare breeds which produce good wool for jumpers include Portland, Oxford Down, Devon Closewool, Llanwenog, Norfolk Horn, of which Oxford Down do come in coloured as well as white. Equally good, and native but not classified as rare by the RBST, are Romney, Ryeland, Dorset Down, Shetland, Shropshire, of which Romney, Shetland and Ryeland come in colours as well as white. Not native nor rare but so prevalent here for so long it’s almost naturalised, and with good colours which would aid with making tweed fabrics, would be Jacob. (Those lists aren’t exhaustive, but I haven’t included any breeds whose wool I haven’t experienced, or whose fleece I have personally felt was not suited to jumpers.)
Tweed is dyed and woven, and traditionally would be the wool of the local hill and upland sheep. There’s a woman in Cumbria making a big thing of making tweed from Rough Fell. Rough Fell is a seriously harsh fleece, so it’s a hard-wearing outer fabric she’s making. Shetland, although a soft, fine fleece, makes an excellent tweed, as you have the natural colours to help give the “tweedy” effect, plus the woven fabric fulls to make a nearly water and weatherproof fabric. Maybe not the most hardwearing though - but much softer than the Rough Fell one would be.
Give me even a tiny bit of encouragement and I will go on some more :)
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With lorry loads it's is (rather unfortunately and against the logic) more economical, I.e. cheaper to send a whole container to Turkey for spinning...
I love Derbyshire Gritstone! They look beautiful. Would they be alright on lowland grazing?
Basically what we are looking to do is graze then together with cows in small paddocks moved every day or two (mob grazing). So they have to be docile and not flighty sheep. Any suggestions?
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Shropshire, Ryeland, or one of the Downs breeds, maybe?
I don’t know about temperament of Gritstones, I’m afraid. I think Whitefaced Woodlands are pretty quiet. And Mules are lovely, if that idea had any merit. Very tameable cos very greedy :). And the BFL (their dad) is a gift soppy thing :hugsheep:
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Perhaps I will just get 1 or 2 or several breeds to see which ones suit our system and which ones I basically like. My wife likes Gotland. Their wool is really nice too.
I'm a rare breed myself - another reason I prefer old rare breeds lol
Ryelands look too chubby I'm afraid.
Another nice one is zwartbels - how's their fleece like?
Also Portland?
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I knew Sally would have the gen :thumbsup:
One thing about Shetlands is they are not remotely uncommon, and there are a couple of companies, at least, in Shetland who specialise in yarn from them. Going for a less common rare or native breed, you could make a big issue of it for your sales pitch, with a pic and a little bit about the breed on your packaging. I wish Mules had a better name from that perspective. 'yarn from our local mule population' just doesn't cut the mustard compared to evocative names such as Derbyshire Gritstone and Whitefaced Woodland - they're wonderful and just so British.
Just some different food for thought.
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My local Guild handspinners love my Zwartbles fleeces but most blend them with another breed.
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Zwartbles isn’t British but they are certainly very quiet, biddable (greedy and friendly) sheep. The fleece is very variable, so if you sourced carefully you could find some nice softish, crimpy ones. Make sure that comes with decent feet, easy lambing and good mothering though - these characteristics are not strengths of the breed ;)
Have a look at the yarns Blacker do. They do some pures and quite a few blends. John Arbon does lots of blends too, and uses the local Zwartbles in several of them. Sue Blacker has her own Gotlands which she has been improving to have better feet. Gotlands are also not British, of course. it’s more like a Longwool, and wet felts as soon as look at it. Super soft though.
Portland would tick a lot of boxes - native, rare, great for jumpers. The lambs are cute fox red. Make sure you buy from a well-handled flock, though.
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Gotland fleeces are quite difficult to get right in the British climate. In their native Gotland (Sweden) they are clipped twice per year, otherwise the fleece mats badly. However crossing the Gotland ewes with a Shetland tup produces a really nice fleece.
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There's just too much choice!
Maybe I will get 1 or 2 ewes of each breed that I like and see which one does the best for us ???
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Apart from the wool, which breed(s) would you recommend when considering grass only diet (or at least very minimal extra feeding)?
Assuming we have good lowland grazing available all year round.
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Apart from the wool, which breed(s) would you recommend when considering grass only diet (or at least very minimal extra feeding)?
Assuming we have good lowland grazing available all year round.
I’ve said it a lot recently, that if I was considering nothing other than ease of shepherding, including but not limited to ease of lambing(*), I’d have pure Shetland every single time. And they absolutely don’t need more than grass (and a bit of hay in winter) if being pure bred.
Fabulous fleece too, of course.
(*) And when I say a sheep is easy lambing, I mean I don’t have to intervene - so that’s unassisted births, lambs up and running around to the milk bar, mum doing her job outside with no penning, no additional support required. As close to 100% of the time as poss. No other breed comes close to Shetland in my (not inconsiderable) experience.
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Apart from the wool, which breed(s) would you recommend when considering grass only diet (or at least very minimal extra feeding)?
Assuming we have good lowland grazing available all year round.
I’ve said it a lot recently, that if I was considering nothing other than ease of shepherding, including but not limited to ease of lambing(*), I’d have pure Shetland every single time. And they absolutely don’t need more than grass (and a bit of hay in winter) if being pure bred.
Fabulous fleece too, of course.
(*) And when I say a sheep is easy lambing, I mean I don’t have to intervene - so that’s unassisted births, lambs up and running around to the milk bar, mum doing her job outside with no penning, no additional support required. As close to 100% of the time as poss. No other breed comes close to Shetland in my (not inconsiderable) experience.
Great. Thanks very much.
What about welsh sheep?
I mean balwen, black or badger face?
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Great. Thanks very much.
What about welsh sheep?
I mean balwen, black or badger face?
Actually, the Welsh sheep breeds are ones of which I have no experience as a shepherd, except Lleyn. I have, however, spun a few various Welsh fleeces. The Balwen was fairly horrid, right at the coarse and harsh end of the spectrum - rug wool. The Torwen was a little better, but not very enjoyable - outer wear and bags, maybe. The Torddu was nicer, might be worth trying a few others to see if they’re generally ok. A Speckled-faced Beulah was very nice, could be worth trying a few others to see if they’re generally as nice as the one I had. Llanwenog is nice, definitely a breed you could consider. The Kerry Hill I had was not so nice, although I think others could be nicer. I had a sample of one very exceptional Welsh Black Mountain - but I was told it was an unusually gorgeous one. I had a Hill Radnor, which was reminiscent in its handle of Rough Fell - the coarsest of the northern dark faced hill and mountain sheep. (But remember that lady in Cumbria using Rough Fell in her tweed blend - it is a blend, though, and I don’t know what proportion is Rough Fell or what it’s blended with).
So on my experience of fleece, if you’re wanting a Welsh choice, I’d think look further at Llanwenog, Beulah, Torddu. Of these, only Llanwenog is on the Rare Breeds Survival Trust list. Of the other Welsh breeds, Balwen and pedigree Welsh Mountain are also classified as rare, but I think the fleeces would need blending to make a usable knitting yarn.
Sorry I can’t share any personal experience of shepherding any of these.
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I have Shetlands and agree that they're a great breed to keep, for all the reasons Sallyintnorth mentions.
They also have a lovely variety of natural colours, which is great for small scale hand spinners and knitters like me. But It's worth bearing in mind that if you are sending fleece for spinning on a large scale, you either need to send colours separately, keep a flock of one colour exclusively, or accept that what you get back will be at best 'beige' and at worst 'sludge' coloured!
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I have Shetlands and agree that they're a great breed to keep, for all the reasons Sallyintnorth mentions.
They also have a lovely variety of natural colours, which is great for small scale hand spinners and knitters like me. But It's worth bearing in mind that if you are sending fleece for spinning on a large scale, you either need to send colours separately, keep a flock of one colour exclusively, or accept that what you get back will be at best 'beige' and at worst 'sludge' coloured!
True, milliebecks - but the different colours, if not completely blended, would give the tweed look that macgro7 loves ;)
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That would be nice.
I think I will get at least two breeds initially. Perhaps breed some true and cross some.
Maybe Shetland and Dorset Down (or Hampshire if we can't find any)? That will give us good wool, trouble free lambing, some slow growing lambs and some fast growing lambs.
Otherwise we 'll just scrap wool altogether and we 'll go for Exlana :roflanim:
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Shetland x Down could be very interesting. I have quite a few Shetland x Blue-faced Leicester, and that to the Shetland again, and again. Lovely fleeces, all of them :hugsheep:
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I appreciate that I'm new here, and have a lot to learn, but I'm pretty sure that you can't train sheep to knit, regardless of the breed...just saying...
Paul
:coat:
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:roflanim:
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I appreciate that I'm new here, and have a lot to learn, but I'm pretty sure that you can't train sheep to knit, regardless of the breed...just saying...
Paul
:coat:
That s a good idea!