The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: SmallWelshBarn on April 21, 2019, 08:33:28 pm

Title: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on April 21, 2019, 08:33:28 pm
Before I call the vet our views pleas. 19rh of January I had a wild boar break I’m to my sows enclosure. The one sow had signs on her back he had tried it in.
I think sh is pr giant and if so would be about time for her to drop. So I will need to segregate her from her companion. My sows were not intended for breeding or eating. I have had them since weanlings and I concede tumblr pets they have just over an acre of woodland to enjoy them selves.
Any way I digress thoughts little video.
https://youtu.be/4thQ3qjMVhc
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: greenbeast on April 22, 2019, 07:30:55 am
Definitely
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: greenbeast on April 22, 2019, 07:33:11 am
And i wouldn't be so sure about the other girl either. A gilt that hasn't bred will have none of the looseness of underline that these two show. Although i'm happy to be corrected.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: shep53 on April 22, 2019, 12:31:43 pm
Both look pregnant to me ? 3wks to go and both may give birth at the same time unless the boar came back ?  Plenty of straw and she/they will make a nest hopefully in their shelter
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on April 22, 2019, 04:39:31 pm
Thanks for the comments.
I have just read back my post ???? God knows what happened the grammar and spelling !
I am sure it’s just the one sow that’s in pig.
The other chases me around only when she is in season !
The sow who is in pig will be separated as I have a sweet stone traditional stone birthing sty.
I could do with only the one being in pig otherwise that’s an awful lot of babies !
I would imagine the meat would be rather tasty as an interesting cross !!
My sow’s are a large white welsh cross I think ????
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: greenbeast on May 03, 2019, 05:02:10 pm
Have they farrowed yet?
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 11, 2019, 09:43:28 am
Have they farrowed yet?
Nop not yet still no milk coming out of teats and needs to bag up a bit more.
I have relocated her to a small area and her pen is ready
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 12, 2019, 09:03:45 am
They will be due tomorrow by my reckoning. She may not get that much bag on her but I would expect the vulva to be fairly enlarged by this stage. And I would expect her belly to be looking bigger than when you took the video back in April.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 12, 2019, 12:54:10 pm
Hi this is what she looks like today. Thoughts ?
She has still not decided to start to farrow down.

https://youtu.be/ugzFaktkPXI

Her birthing sty.
https://youtu.be/jEsBa6uuA3o
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 12, 2019, 07:07:21 pm
Definitely a "milk bar" there but not much change at the back end. Sty looks grand. I wouldn't have as much straw as that. Piglets can get stuck/lost in too much and then get squashed. I like shavings and a bit of straw. Your piglets wont generally go behind farrowing rails without a lamp. I would also put a low board across the pen entrance so piglets don't go out of the sty and not find their way back in. Some farrowings can take hours and first piglets can wander off. Definitely need a gate on yard entrance so the other pig doesn't try to go in.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 12, 2019, 07:29:43 pm
Definitely a "milk bar" there but not much change at the back end. Sty looks grand. I wouldn't have as much straw as that. Piglets can get stuck/lost in too much and then get squashed. I like shavings and a bit of straw. Your piglets wont generally go behind farrowing rails without a lamp. I would also put a low board across the pen entrance so piglets don't go out of the sty and not find their way back in. Some farrowings can take hours and first piglets can wander off. Definitely need a gate on yard entrance so the other pig doesn't try to go in.
I’ll pull out some of th straw I do have shavings so I’ll add that. The yard did have a gate but she destroyed it when I tried locking her in the yard last week.
This time I have some thick OSB Ply I’m going to put a cross the entrance with a micro tractor up against it.
I’ll be moving the other sow her sister they have never been apart so that will be interesting as they are very attached.
It’s all a large learning curve. How long to stay with mum? Medication best food to fed and when
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 12, 2019, 08:27:31 pm
I would also have a plank across the doorway. Mum can step over to go out but piglets can't whilst she is farrowing. I wean about eight weeks of age but sometimes first time gilts need weaning sooner if they don't hold condition. The sow stays on sow and weaner ration throughout gradually increasing throughout lactation so by the end she is roughly getting her daily ration plus a pound per piglet. You can introduce a creep ration. You would feed that so the sow can't get it. It isn't vital, they will eat the sow ration. I worm sows just before farrowing. No other medication should be needed.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 15, 2019, 06:15:31 am
Yesterday I encouraged her in to the stone pig sty. Bad idea I put an OSB board in front of the gate and my micro tractor between it and the out side wall so she could no get out. The last gate she destroyed.
Lots of panicked squealing of terror she got her front legs over the board then on to the micro tractor seat trying to climb out.
She backed of and I had to let her out before she damaged her self and stressed the babies. Was rather terrifying.
Plan B she also has the use of a large stable with her sister to use however most of the time she chooses to sleep out side occasionally going inside. Her sister was in side yesterday she then chased her sister out...
So I moved her sister to the adjacent paddock so they can still sniff and see each other.
Lots of running by her along the fence now trying to destroy the fence to get to her sister.
Can’t bloody win. Managed to put her sister back with her.
Now total at a loss to do. Still no babies nor milk coming from her teats just a tiny bit.
I’m feeling totally out of my depth.
I have set up CCTV so I can keep an eye on them inside and out it’s motion triggered or you can log in and watch live I also stuck a big LED in to the stable. Any one is interested I can add you to th camera system so you can live watch and look in on the goings on ????
 https://youtu.be/OGiNAUn7Hyc
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 15, 2019, 07:29:08 am

If I was you I would leave them together and leave the farrowing area ready for her to use. Hopefully, she will go in when she is ready. She may choose to farrow outside but she will make a nest most likely if she does. Do you have a pig board? I would suggest you have one with you, just in case. Don't be tempted to get too involved when she is farrowing. Keep a quiet eye from a distance - camera ideal. Gilts can get upset if not left in peace and yours seems a bit stressy.


It is not unknown for pigs to farrow and stay with another pig. Room is the key so no one gets cornered.


Keep doing your breathing exercises!  :eyelashes: They were designed for Dad's too.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 16, 2019, 08:01:40 pm
She farrowed out side next to a stock fence the worst possible place. 6.30 am she stared to pop them out. Birth went smoothly mostly a good size two almost look premature totally underdeveloped one of the small ones the joints are fused so will need to be dispatched I’m not sure the other will survive one was still born.
I separated the babies as mum would not let them feed and her position was not good and too cold.
I have them in the sty with heat lamps etc kept taking one out to try to get the to suckle.
She almost nit the head off two.
Not interested at all sadly. So they are now separated from mum not what I want at all as far to much work.
Have bought a multi feeder so can give milk to four at a time it’s s**t and leaks.
Could not get pig colostrum so given calf and lamb. They seem to be doing well lots of squeaking and climbing.
It’s going to be a hard long few weeks.
 
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 16, 2019, 08:33:58 pm

When you say she wouldn't feed them what do you mean exactly? You are unlikely to get them back on her now. What would have been good would to put the piglets in that creep area in the sty and board them in with Mum in sty too. Let them bond a bit, let one out to feed and then the others if that goes well.


How many have you got?


Haven't seen the multi feeder. What is suggested for orphan piglets is a shallow dish of milk. Hold the piglet upside down with it's nose in it and it should learn to drink quickly. I have also heard mixing in Weetabix can encourage them. Get them onto creep feed as soon as possible. Piglets are very hard work to hand rear. They need very small amounts very often. Other people use a syringe for the first few days.


Good luck  :fc:


Did the sow cleanse and is she ok?
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 16, 2019, 09:22:27 pm
The sow would not go in to the sty she smashed her way out two days ago nearly did serious damage to her self. She has always lived out in the forest with the use of a sty should she choose to use it.
Th nest she built did not allow the piglets to feed properly also mum went for two as I tried to get them to feed. Had she nested in side probably would have gone better. It’s way to cold outside and her nesting spot was unsafe for the babies.
Multi feeder is for lambs basically two compartment box with 4 teats they ar already sucking on it so it’s a replacement mum seems to work.
These are hardy as half wild boar
Sadly one small one seems to have deformed front legs don’t seem to straighten
All th placenta came out I th n cleaned her up to stop th fly attraction
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 17, 2019, 09:05:35 am

It's done now but I would have left her for a while and given them chance to suckle and bond. Gilts are often best given some space. Then I would have encouraged them all inside together. If you have got them going on the lamb feeder that's grand. I would get them creep feed pretty soon.


What colour are they?
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 17, 2019, 12:33:23 pm
All pigs still alive and doing well. Two minuscule runts doing ok sadly one has leg issues knee joints seem fused together so can not straighten leg.
Going to try with mum one more time to see if she will be ok. This morning she seems better rolled showed me her belly.
They all have had colostrum and are on lambs milk now. I have rigged up a lamb feeder with four teats seems to be working.
I also placed two hot water bottles in side the feeder to keep the milk warm.
These little buggers have very sharp teeth and hurt !!
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 17, 2019, 12:38:05 pm
Little video

https://youtu.be/jbgBIBCMDCU
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 18, 2019, 09:12:40 am
As they get bigger they will probably wreck the teats on the milk hence creep feed when they get a bit stronger. And water. Fingers crossed the sow might take them but if she hasn't been looking for them unless you have a crate you will be lucky.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 18, 2019, 09:57:38 pm
I have given up on the sow as can’t risk her killing them.
She has been pining for her sister and her sister was off her feed.
They are back in their forest. I will need the vet out to giver her a jab to dry up her milk. I feel overwhelmed and sad. Never wanted to breed them for this exact reason.
One of the runts with the fused knee joints was put to sleep today I could not do it.
Only a £10 at the vets she also noticed it had a cleft pallet poor little mite.
Exhausted and it’s mot even begun.
They are already a handful and fights breaking out dominant one biting the other on the nose over feeding annoying as plenty of teats.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SallyintNorth on May 18, 2019, 11:02:14 pm
Aww, you sound like you need a  :hug:
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 19, 2019, 01:38:08 pm
Urgent advice needed please see video explanation. Vet will be attending in any case tomorrow
https://youtu.be/dTIPVlErAAw
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SallyintNorth on May 19, 2019, 02:17:39 pm
How is she in herself? 

I’m no expert with pigs, and you have the vet coming tomorrow anyway.  But if she’s hot or lethargic she probably needs antibiotics sooner rather than later.  But of course that will limit the options available to the vet tomorrow. Maybe phone the vet? S/he can advise what antibiotics to use? 
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 19, 2019, 05:30:04 pm
Called vet been down to pic up antibiotics and anti inflammatory injections.
Will medicate my self hopefully that does the trick.
Injecting sow was not at all easy
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 20, 2019, 10:30:18 am

Injecting pigs is never easy. I hope they gave you long acting antibiotics rather than a three day course. Sows dry up very quickly so she shouldn't have needed an injection to dry up. With a late piglet like you describe best to treat for retained placenta.


If the bigger piglets are bullying get the creep feed down. They should regulate the feeding as milk is there all the time. Obviously when they are with the sow she tells them when the milk bar is open and they all feed at once.



Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 21, 2019, 08:44:31 am
Yesterday I had the vet out to try and help with injecting her no luck. I don’t have a way to restrain her. I now have some powdered antibiotics that I can mix in with something tasty.
Most of the piglets were mildly scouring so we have treated them all with antibiotics and am mixing in a dextrose solution with the milk.
All doing well, I lost one yesterday due to an error on my part.
As for creep feed vet said to wait 7 days ?
https://youtu.be/h-mTvRMogb0
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: greenbeast on May 21, 2019, 09:36:05 am
Shame your vet doesn't have a masterject (spring loaded injector), a god send with pigs.

Before that, if they were a restless pig (some of ours you can slowly put the needle through without disturbing them and then attach the syringe), my vet partner would hold the needle in thumb and forefinger, cup it with the other fingers (no syringe) and do a couple of dummy hits on the rump before jabbing on the third go, then if they've not run off you can reattach the syringe. That's still not guaranteed though
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SallyintNorth on May 21, 2019, 10:35:57 am
The two-thumps-then-jab technique is used in cattle too. I didn’t know it worked in pigs. It uses a prey animal physiological response, where the nerves to an area are deadened by physical shock. So the theory is that by the time you put the needle in, there is little or no pain sensation.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: greenbeast on May 21, 2019, 05:53:24 pm
The two-thumps-then-jab technique is used in cattle too. I didn’t know it worked in pigs. It uses a prey animal physiological response, where the nerves to an area are deadened by physical shock. So the theory is that by the time you put the needle in, there is little or no pain sensation.

wow thanks for that explanation, like it  :)

I can never really decide if pigs are prey/predator or a strange middle ground
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 21, 2019, 07:02:45 pm

Generally with pigs if you have to inject more than once, you will be lucky to get the second one in and really lucky to get the third in unless you can restrain. You can make somewhere to restrain if you have a gate that opens against a fence. Feed the pig so you can open the gate and have a piece of chain that you attach from the post to gate behind her quarters so she if effectively wedged in. Again it will probably work once.


Pigs are usually injected in the neck, about a hands width behind the ear but if you can't do that then go with the rump.


If the vet has a good reason for not feeding creep yet fine but I can't think of one. They wont  take much to start with. So far, they have had no pig colostrum or milk, so the sooner they can have something designed for pigs the better. Have they had iron or getting access to a sod? Were the scours, too much milk or an infection?
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 22, 2019, 11:21:44 pm
Mum seems now to be doing well now back to eating. I have given them a nice paddock full of grass to enjoy.
Piglets seem to be growing each day. Horrid little creatures super sharp teeth!  Some do have scoured I’m guessing too much milk. I have decided to cut the milk back 5 feeds in a 24 hr period  plus one dextrose. They are drinking about 1 litre 250mil per feed between 11of them.
Also treating them for the scour.
They all have nose injuries from fighting.

https://youtu.be/kbGeJuBlyGc
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 23, 2019, 01:25:11 pm
You are doing a grand job!
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 25, 2019, 11:24:07 pm
You are doing a grand job!
Thanks I’m trying my best. They are now 8 days old and seem to be doing well.
However that said the issues I am having some have terrible bits on the snout very deep and raw. I clean the wounds and treat with sudocream. I presume most of the damage was caused whilst feeding alone. I have stoped that now as milk is a set time then it’s removed and I referee feeding to stop the fighting.
The second issue I’m having is getting on top of the scour. Today emptied the sty and disinfected it clean bedding cleaned all piggies. Started treatment with Spectrum all piggies and for the next 24 hours no milk just rehydrate.
Hopefully this breaks the cycle.
They are funny little things from low me around yet when I pick one up screams like I’m killing it.
I have introduced the creep feed how ever they don’t seem interested in it. Any tips of how to get them to try it ?
Feeling totally shattered 
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 26, 2019, 09:07:44 am
Piglets have sharp milk teeth that point out and that's what causes the injuries. You can clip them off. For the scour get a disinfectant powder to dry up the sty as well as disinfect. Get some rehydration liquid for pigs and calves that you add to the water. Creep feed just takes time.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 26, 2019, 11:05:28 pm
I’m not up to clipping teeth ! How do the boar get on in the wild ? I do wonder what the % die
Given the Forest of Dean is over run with them I would imagine not a lot !
They all seem to be doing well thankfully fingers crossed that does not change.
I do have the the rehydration solution for pigs and calf’s. I just hope the scouring stops soon !! I’m doing everything I’m supposed to medically.
I’ll get some powder for the floor i just disinfected it yesterday it’s a non stop task to get on top of it.
11 healthy piglets hope that stays !
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 27, 2019, 07:49:14 am
Wild pigs and domestic are quite different. WB don't have big litters. Domestic pigs are bred to be productive. We help out the weak who would die in the wild.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on May 28, 2019, 02:16:17 am
I don’t seem to be wining against scouring.
Today is the 4th day using the scour medication and they still have yellow water poo. Some pooing as they eat.
Not sure if I’m giving too much milk ? Approx 1ltr 250 mill every feed between 11 piglets each piglet probably drinks for about 5/8 mins or until they start messing about !
Inside the pen is a bed of shavings to soak up pee and poo and every day I take out the pee soaked sawdust lucky  it’s always in just two corners.
Outside where I feed them gets washed down after every feed as is always plenty of yellow nasty stuff.
Never has a person wanted to see more solid poo ! How can it be solid if they are only getting milk ??
Any one based near Monmouthshire?
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: harmony on May 28, 2019, 09:43:37 am
Are they looking ill? Or just the same and eating? It can be a pain to get rid of. As I said before the powder disinfectant helps dry up and disinfectant. I think mine is called dri-bed. Have they had iron or are you giving them a grass sod? Cut back the milk and they will be encouraged to eat the creep.
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on June 02, 2019, 07:50:12 am
They are all doing well eating and running about pop has all dried up now.
I switched to fresh goats milk then managed to get some proper powdered pig milk.
I’m starting to allow them out of the sty in to a grassy area enclosure sights and smells for them. They also met my two Kuni Kuni boys who just ignored them.
Made this short video for fun..... what do you think ?
https://youtu.be/9ke6DK5kUhY
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: nimbusllama on June 03, 2019, 09:48:26 am
Fabulous!!  I am not a pig keeper but have really enjoyed your journey with  :pig:  I think you are doing really well with them, keep up the good work!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pregnant or not
Post by: SmallWelshBarn on June 05, 2019, 09:10:50 am
Fabulous!!  I am not a pig keeper but have really enjoyed your journey with  :pig:  I think you are doing really well with them, keep up the good work!  :thumbsup:
Thank you. They are all little characters  another little fun video
https://youtu.be/kyis6D6Fn9Q