The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: wannabesmallholder on April 19, 2019, 09:36:22 pm
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I have a small, but perfectly formed, single lamb born at lunchtime today, to a shearling ewe who has been semi attentive but not great. He can’t stand - I don’t think he’ll make it through the night ????
What are the reasons for a lamb being born and not able to stand? What’s the average time they take to stand and suckle?
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Lack of energy and internal brown fat- have you tuned him some colostrum?
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Yes he’s had powdered colostrum every 2 hours and 2 shots of lamb boost. I’m limited on how much I can support a bottle fed lamb so am trying to keep him with mum, but she is losing interest.
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I think I probably left him too long before intervening and feeding him. He’d been born 2.5 hours and was still flat before I stepped in to do anything. I’m still pretty novice, a bit unclear on expected timescales for lambing and newborns, and was hoping he was just a bit slow to get started and would do it himself.
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Colostrum within two hours is ideal but within 6 is ok.
Sometimes they just haven’t finished cooking and need a few days. But you’d need to feed him to give him that chance.
Mineral deficiencies might have a bearing. Some ewes in some areas need copper mid-pregnancy. Lack of selenium can cause lethargic lambs. Himalayan salt licks available year round help with a load of things, but some sheep on some ground need a good chelated mineral drench such as Ovithrive mid-pregnancy.
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Thank you - really helpful. They’ve had a mineral lick and Himalayan salt block throughout pregnancy and fed concentrates from 6 weeks prior to lambing, but yes I assumed there must be a deficiency for him to be so flat....
He’s a fighter though. Was fully expecting to find a dead lamb this morning, but he’s standing and making attempts to feed from mum, although I’m not sure how successful he’s been. Have just been out and given him a bottle and he’s got a good strong suck. He only had 30mls, but he’s tiny, so maybe it’s enough if given regularly.
I’m try to keep rolling him up today and hopefully he’ll have the strength to work out the feeding from the ewe. She’s not being terribly attentive, but also hasn’t completely rejected him and did stand and allow him to attempt feeding just now, so I’m keen to keep them together.
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I had a lamb this year that took 2 days to get sucking on his mum. I tubed him every 4 hours until he got the strength to feed himself. He spent a week with his mum and siblings but I lifted him off and bottle fed as he was the smallest of the 3... hes nearly 6 weeks and not looked back since he left his mum :)
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I would take him off his mum and put under a heat lamp, feed colostrum every few hours and they usually pick up after 24-48hrs. Of course there are a few that don't :(
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Reads like you are doing every thing right despite your doubts so keep going topping up little and often and encourage suckling and bonding with mam , you don't say but I would have the pair inside in a pen so close to each other and easy to top up . If it keeps suckling then in a few days will need no topping up . As twizzel says lack of brown fat thus energy . Lambs should be on their feet within 30 mins . You don't say what breed the mother is or the father , if a primitive then tiny lambs are common , if a big meat breed then why is it tiny ? How fat or not is the mother ?
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Sounds very promising, keep topping up little and often. Don’t overfeed or it might stop him trying mum ;).
30-50mls per feed is fine for a small lamb for the first 24-36 hours. 150mls is plenty for any lamb for one feed at that age. Ideally they take 6 feeds first day or two, if you are providing all the input. (Only the biggest strongest lambs will take 6x 150mls that early. 6x 30-50ml will keep any newborn lamb alive indoors.). I usually drop to 4 feeds after day two, because of practicalities. But if he’s feeding a little from mum he should be fine overnight by then anyway.
Best of luck!
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Thanks all. I still don’t hold out much hope for him tbh, but am keeping at it.
They’re Ouessants so very small anyway, but he’s small even for that.
I have penned mum and tried to get him latched on - I can get his lips round the teat, but he just doesn’t suck. I’ve managed to milk loads off her and give him it in a bottle, which he’s taken about 30mls per feed - will suck a little more from the bottle, but it’s a pretty weak suck, so i don’t think it’s looking great.
I’ve turned them out again because he can’t walk in the straw of the pen, but can walk out on the grass. Although mum isn’t very patient with standing for him to feed, she is staying by his side at all times. It’s 24 degrees here today, so I think he’s warm enough - I wasn’t sure whether to leave him in the sun to keep him warm or shade to shelter from the sun...??
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Every thing feels better with the sun :sunshine: No chance of any one showing you how to stomach tube a lamb , then you know it's had enough ??
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Ouessants are not commercials they don't require high nutrition during pregnancy however I have had one or two who were very very tired following birth. Do not keep getting him to try to stand feed him and keep him warm and in a safe place give him 24 hours and they will perk up. Alternatively schmallenberg virus can produce dumb lambs if this is the case there is nothing to be done
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Thanks. When I milked mum this afternoon one side produced blood-stained milk. Is this normal, or a sign of mastitis? Presumably if he’s not feeding much from her she is at risk?
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It could be mastitis, yes, and if she’s got milk he’s not drinking, that could create risk, yes.
Does the udder look red, feel hard?
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No they’re not red or hard. That side was extremely full, but I milked a lot off and it was soft afterwards. Do you know how much I should aim to milk her to reduce the risk? If the lamb dies what will happen about her milk?
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I would milk her just enough to relieve the pressure a few times a day until the udder does not feel engorged with milk when you go to her. Then reduce frequency. Once udder feels soft and pliable when you go to her, stop milking her. Keep her in or on poor grass, and feed just hay or straw, no nuts, to reduce production.
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If the lamb dies what will happen about her milk?
Her milk will dry up once there is no demand, and she should not get mastitis if she’s off grass and not fed nuts.
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Thanks so much for your advice. Sorry - one more question. So now, with the lamb still alive, but not feeding from her, (but obviously we want her to feed him eventually), should I still be feeding her grass and nuts?
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You’re milking her for his milk, or making him formula? Let her have nuts or grass if you’re struggling to get enough milk from her for the lamb. If you just want to keep her from drying up, daily milking should do it (twice daily arguably better) but take a little more than just enough to keep her comfortable. No need for nuts if she has grass and you’re not feeding the lamb from her milk.
Once the lamb has established the oesophageal reflex, which he should have by 48 hours if he’s taking his bottle well, you may be able to get him to suckle by sitting her on her bottom (slightly one-sided, as you would to look at her feet) and bringing him onto the teat. Squirt some into his mouth so he gets the idea. Once they realise there’s milk in there, they should keep trying.
Once he knows where it is, and he’s past the first two days, reduce frequency of feeds. So check his tummy when you go to feed him. If it’s nice and convex, he’s probably helping himself when you’re not there to see it ;). Often they start drinking from mum but you don’t see it for several days ;). It’s a lovely feeling when you finally see it!
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Lamb definitely dying now :(
Ewe’s udders aren’t engorged, hard or red, but when you milk one of them pure frank blood comes out (not mixed with milk - just blood as far as I can see) Why is this and do I need to do anything else beyond what you’ve already so helpfully suggested?
Many thanks
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Sorry I cannot add anything constructive....Have been reading this thread, willing the little one on & you,
as you have tried so hard to do everything for him.. Maybe there is something internally wrong with him.
Hope the ewe is ok, be proud of yourself for giving him every chance.
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Sorry your losing the lamb ,you tried hard to save it but very tiny lambs have a smaller chance from the start . The blood will be from burst blood vessels often from physical damage and should resolve its self ,if left alone . For future reference if you take a lamb away from a ewe often they will then not accept them back ,depending on the bond established
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Sorry to hear you are losing the little lamb, but well done for giving him every chance.
Keep mum off grass and nuts now then, maybe get some udder mint to rub on her udder. It will help reduce any inflammation or infection and also may help to reduce the milk.
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Thank you everyone for your help with this topic. There are so many Internet forums where I would have received lots of judgment for being too inexperienced to deal with it etc, and received confusing conflicting advice, but you guys were nothing but supportive and helpful - thank you so much!
As suspected the lamb died this morning. He weighed just under 700g - not sure if [member=81]kanisha[/member] could say whether this is small for a newborn Ouessant?
Got 4 more ewes to lamb now - hoping they are all straightforward! :fc:
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800 g is the lower end of the usual range anything less and there would be concerns over their health. It does sound as if something wasn't right . Sorry you lost him but it doesn't make it any easier :-(