The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Q on November 01, 2018, 03:13:46 pm
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This is quite a long story - sorry.
I have a chicken in my kitchen undergoing recovery. I say that but this has been ongoing since January!
I bought it in because the other 3 chickens had attacked it and it looked very weak, felt very light and couldnt walk. Feet curled up and light comb. So in it came.
It seemed to recover over a few days and several times we thought it was ready to go outside during the summer but although we kept it separate from the others it immediately reverted to its previous state and need nursing again. I mean after just a few hours outside.
Since its been in the kitchen it seems to go through a cycle where it looks and trots around Ok - still feeble in strength though.
Then for no apparent reason it will suddenly be unable to walk for 3-5 days (still eating and feeding well because I take the food to it) and then suddenly it will be on its feet and walking from room to room(albeit slowly) as if nothing happened - all very strange.
When it came inside it didnt lay an egg for 2-3months and then we would get 3-4 then nothing in a cycle.
Sometimes we thought the illness was related to laying eggs but then it hasnt been consistent.
I am a bit worried that she is in pain but there is nothing except the curled up feet to indicate this - I am loathe to cull her when she's ill or when she is healthy.
I have accepted that she is going to be inside for the duration but would be interested to know if I am doing enough for her wellbeing.
Just one more thing - she often tries to jump up on to the settee but is too weak to even get off the ground.
....and breathe.... apologies for the long tale
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Hmmm difficult one ???...have you wormed her recently?
If so, then maybe try a bit of poultry tonic or apple cider vinegar (livestock one) at a ratio of 20ml to a litre, using a plastic drinker, otherwise it stains the plastic... :)
Keep her warm and if she doesnt improve within a week or so, its probably time for the vet....
Especially as its been on since Jan,
I presume you know her quite well and what tickles her fancies foodwise so keep her eating those things to give her a bit of weight. If you dont then most chickens cant resist a few handfuls of mixed corn or watermelon ;D :eyelashes:
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...or live mealworms :yum:
I haven't a clue what's wrong with her, clearly something, maybe congenital. However, after all that time I wouldn't be keeping her. She's not living the life of a normal hen, scratching for her food and living in company with other hens, which are the most basic tenets of hen welfare. I understand your unwillingness to cull her when she's unwell, but that's just when she will be most miserable.
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Thanks for your replies
When she first came in she was wormed and every 4-6 weeks has cider vinegar in the water. When she's on a downer she gets poultry tonic for a few days - not sure if that makes much of a difference.
She also eats scrambled egg and cat food to try to build up her strength but that doesnt really work for her.
She has become friendly and she will follow us around and just sit down until we move with the occasional peck to remind us she's still there.
its a funny one - at the minute she's on an up phase and only had a few hours where she couldnt walk a few days ago but its definately not improving overall.
I just cant make my mind up if she's in pain when she is on a 'down' period.
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Ok... weird....
yes as fleecewife says she is unhappiest when she is unwell.
It might not look like it though because chickens have evolved to not make their weakness or illness apparent to others to survive.
:-\
The best option may be to cull her in the end for both of your sakes if she doesnt get better within say, another month...
It is hard, but sometimes has to be done..... :'( :-\
I did notice on www.yourchickens.co.uk (http://www.yourchickens.co.uk) that newcastles disease is particularly a risk this year, although her symptoms arent similar to those.....just a word of warning though....
:thumbsup:
Good luck
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Alternatively you could contact the people on that website I gave you and they would put the question and symptoms through to professional chicken vets who could hopefully give you a more detailed answer... :thinking: :fc: :fc: :thumbsup:
Good luck
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Is it a chicken or is it a pet?
If it's a chicken it wouldn't survive with the others so you have to put it out of it's misery
If it's a pet you need to ask your vet (or a specialist poultry vet) what is wrong with it, because what you are doing isn't succeeding long term
Don't keep her going just for your own sake. I wouldn't keep a dog going up and down like that
Sorry for being blunt.
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Not sure this is much help but I did have a lovely dog who cycled through being fine and energetic to being too weak to move over a 3-7 day period. In the end the vets found a tumor in his spleen affecting the production of his white blood cells, which apparently cycle.
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We've had a few with similar symptoms and none eventually recovered. Seems almost like a stroke, or an oxygen or blood circulatory problem with a sudden loss of energy. I know it's a long shot but it could also simply be a loss of total energy caused by an inactive digestive system. Worth a try is a dose of Avipro Avian which will restore the gut health. Stop the wormer and the ACV as that's clearly not helping and may perhaps have worsened a digestive problem. Keep her warm as we have found an abnormally low body temperature destroys the gut flora as well. Keep her away from wood burners as chickens are very susceptible to Carbon Monoxide poisoning which has similar symptoms.
Ours are all pets and if they are happy and comfortable living inside with us for the rest of their lives so be it. But if she takes a serious turn for the worse and is suffering that's the time to say goodbye.
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Yes exactly Chris....any updates on the chicken or pet???? :) :innocent: :thumbsup:
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thanks Chris - interesting comments - she's only on the worming and cider vinegar when she has had a 'turn' & not every time because as you say it doesnt seem to be having an effect.
It has become a pet hen and I will be happy to have it around - its odd that the 'down'days dont really affecct her eating and drinking even though occasionally she is so weak she is holding herself up by her beak on the side of the (dogs) cage she sleeps in.
If she didnt make a recovery each time or was gradually getting worse then the decision to cull would be easier - so no plans for that at the minute.
I assumed it was a parasite or worms that were building up every now again and overwhelming her.
As this has been going on since January there's isnt any difference to the cycles - just now she has been mobile for 5-6 days with no sign of going off again.
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I'd definitely try the Avipro Avian Q. If she is digesting food properly she has had the best chance. Another thing we use often as it works surprisingly well is a one-off 1mL shot of cod liver oil. It gives their immune system an instant boost, but mustn't be used again for at least a week as the 'overdose' has the reverse effect.
Problem with wormers is the worms can evolve immunity, both to the chemicals and the acidity levels. We now rarely use them unless absolutely necessary (the poo is the clue). Worms, apart from blocking the digestive system, take the nutrients from the food which points to incomplete digestion being an issue with her, if not worms.
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The best medicine is... chicken soup! No joke!
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The best medicine is... chicken soup! No joke!
No I just couldn't.
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You have been keeping that hen in your kitchen for 10 months now. Is it worth it?
Don't take personally, I don't want to be rude, but honestly how many chickens have you eaten during this last year? This one has obviously had much better life than all commercial broilers.
Much better taste as well. Much better end for the animals as well. It's been suffering for months and months already.
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I have to agree with macgro about culling, except that I wouldn't eat the hen either - but because you don't know what's wrong with it, plus you've given it a whole load of meds, so it's not ideal, safe food for humans. I'm also concerned for your health with a sick animal sharing your living and eating space.
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What are you feeding Q? Does she have grit available?
Mine seem to prefer whole soaked wheat, my poorly hen is eating a bowlfull now, but the others, cockerel especially, will peck at her in their cage (cage in polytunnel with access to outside), so she eats and sleeps in a pet carrier. Yet OK outside.
Moulting can highlight problems but not for 10 months?
Surprised she's laid eggs if she is so weak? Was she worse after laying eggs?
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Thanks for your replies but my original concern was whether she was in pain and how to identify it.
She has been fed on layers pellets with the occasional scrambled egg or porridge and greenery.
I will only cull her if she is suffering and its difficult to determine if she is - having said that - you are all right - its not an ideal life for her as a hen. She spent some time on the allotment with me doing the scratching and dirt bathing (not me - the hen) that she should do but the next day she was overwhelmed again for a few days.
The eggs are interesting because we considered if she was eggbound when we originally bought her inside but when she recpvered we assumed not.
She is only a year old and came from the annual school hatch so she came to us as a 6-8 week chick with the others.
She is very bright and alert as you would expect her to be.
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.... She spent some time on the allotment with me doing the scratching and dirt bathing (not me - the hen) that she should do but the next day she was overwhelmed again for a few days...
probably a stupid question, but you are sure that neither you nor your predecessor have used slug pellets or other nasties on your allotment?
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You have been keeping that hen in your kitchen for 10 months now. Is it worth it?
Don't take personally, I don't want to be rude, but honestly how many chickens have you eaten during this last year? This one has obviously had much better life than all commercial broilers.
Much better taste as well. Much better end for the animals as well. It's been suffering for months and months already.
I think that's a bit unfair macgro. :thinking:
Who says the hen is suffering? Don't you think Q is in a better position to judge than you are?
If you had an illness that made you feel really crap at times would you expect to be euthanized or do you think the good times when you didn't feel so bad made life worth living?
Q obviously cares a lot about this hen and has put a lot of thought and effort into trying to get her right again. So I think Q is quite capable of deciding when or if to put the bird to sleep. And I think it's most unfair to tell someone who is obviously sincere and realistic in the care of their bird, that it should be put to sleep when you've never even seen it. :sunshine:
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I think it's time to finish this post. No-one has been able to offer any concrete diagnosis of Q's hen's illness, several of us, me included, have given our opinions. Q has made his/her decision so there's nothing else to say, and TAS shouldn't be doing squabbles.
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I think it's time to finish this post. No-one has been able to offer any concrete diagnosis of Q's hen's illness, several of us, me included, have given our opinions. Q has made his/her decision so there's nothing else to say, and TAS shouldn't be doing squabbles.
Without wishing to fall out with you Fleecewife, I actually think that's a bit unfair also! So it's ok for you to agree with macgro and you're quite happy for there to be several more posts after that, one of which was another helpful suggestion today, by mab. But as soon as I voice an opinion opposite to yours, then it becomes a "squabble" and the subject should be closed. We're all entitled to our opinions. It doesn't make it a squabble - it's called open discussion. This is a forum for heavens sake, and as yet we don't know if the slug pellets is a possibility.
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Again, thanks for all of your answers - they are all valid and worth consideration.
No possibility of slug pellets or other pesticides / chemicals as the bird was bought up in my enclosed back garden with 11 others - 9 of which were sold leaving me with three - the other two are still in the garden and healthy and laying.
The only thing that would occur to me was when they got hold of some polystyrene and were breaking it up before I noticed - it was all the birds - not just this one.
She hasnt ever looked so ill to me that I considered putting her down - If I did that without knowing she was in pain then it would be just for my convenience - this wont happen.
Its hard to describe fully but the problem does seem to be the inability to walk and curled up feet - almost like a mild dose of Mareks but the other birds are still healthy.
I will be trying some of the options suggested and will update at some future time.
I also understand that if the bird was being kept in any kind of commercial way it would have been culled on day1 back in January - my choice was to give it every chance to recover.
This is possibly why no-one has had this cycling of illness recovery.
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I think it's time to finish this post. No-one has been able to offer any concrete diagnosis of Q's hen's illness, several of us, me included, have given our opinions. Q has made his/her decision so there's nothing else to say, and TAS shouldn't be doing squabbles.
Without wishing to fall out with you Fleecewife, I actually think that's a bit unfair also! So it's ok for you to agree with macgro and you're quite happy for there to be several more posts after that, one of which was another helpful suggestion today, by mab. But as soon as I voice an opinion opposite to yours, then it becomes a "squabble" and the subject should be closed. We're all entitled to our opinions. It doesn't make it a squabble - it's called open discussion. This is a forum for heavens sake, and as yet we don't know if the slug pellets is a possibility.
I was just being Mummy trying to keep the peace on a forum I love, but clearly I've made it worse. Sorry Q to disrupt your question.
I mainly wanted to make the point that eating the hen was not a good idea for health reasons - but as Q does not intend to eat her, that is irrelevant.
OK I'll shut up now and go back to my :knit:
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Have you popped her to the vets? If she is a pet I think I would just let the vet take a look at her.
Vitamin deficiency? Something that affects the nervous system and hence the curled toes. DimethiSo that periodically presses on the nerves.
We think that we had Marek's in our Friesian Fowl. From what I have read it is a very variable disease in symptoms and severity. Some breeds seem much more prone than others and I've heard that Friesian are more susceptible.
We had one hen that lived for several years but would have 'relapses' every few weeks. She would be weak etc but then gradually recover. She was still able to live with the other hens though.
I think that if she was my pet I would pop her to the vet. You might not want any expensive treatment carried out but there maybe a simple cure or at least you could ask whether the hen was likely to be in pain and put your mind at rest.