The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Womble on October 12, 2018, 06:04:19 pm
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So I was at the feed store earlier and spotted a second hand Landrover Freelander for sale at the garage opposite (product placement at its best ;D ). Here it is by the way (https://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/land-rover/freelander/2-2-td4-gs-5dr/2012/ref/arnej-u-21355) - sticker price £10,998:
(https://vcache.arnoldclark.com/imageserver/AKRBNNE2J1-MUS2/800/f)
Anyway, I got chatting to the salesman and he offered me a test drive, accompanied by one of their junior staff - ok, I've got time, so why not?
I'm not crazy about the car (the gearbox was notchy as hell for one thing), but I don't hate it either. Anyway, I'm then taken back into the showroom for the inevitable sales negotiation session. And could I get him to knock anything off the sticker price? Could I hell!
I then asked about loan terms, since I know they make finance commission..... Nope. "Our prices are already guaranteed to be the lowest", etc etc, repeat ad nauseum. No road tax, no free mats and not even a full tank of fuel offered!
I even tried the line of "You're offering me a trade-in of £1500 for my old car, but the retail price is nearer £2500, so if there's £1000 margin in my trade in, then surely you can do *something* on eleven grand's worth of Freelander, since there's no way you paid that much for it?". Nope. Not a sausage. "The auto game has changed my friend. There's no margin in anything any more, and I'd be losing money if I knocked anything off at all".
So anyway, I'm chalking it up as half an hour's free negotiation training, but can this really be right? Has anybody had more luck than me at this kind of place recently, or did you get the same story?
Womble.
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They may phone you on Monday if they have had no interest over the weekend.
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I'm actually expecting a call on Sunday, since the salesman said he's on holiday next week, and doubt he'll want any of his colleagues selling it in his absence. We'll see.
I have to say though:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/70/bc/bb/70bcbbb3aebb4dcdaec842afe59ef291.jpg)
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Hmmmm, I just checked the price at www.parkers.co.uk. (https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/www.parkers.co.uk)At 70K miles (the car I looked at was on 65K), the prices are:
Franchised dealer: £10,175
Independent dealer: £9,785
Part Exchange: £8465.
So I know they have to cover their risk for anything the car needs doing to it pre-sale or any warranty claims, plus they have to cover their staff and premises costs, but I don't for a minute believe there's no fat left to trim from a mark-up of over £2K.
Do we have any forum members who work / have worked in the trade who can shed any light?
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My son has his own business selling mainly vans. But even when they are best value in the area, there's still some room for negotiation. People expect it, and also, as you say, there's a few hundred extra to be made with a finance deal. So I think the salesman was just trying to prove a point and you did right to walk away.
Incidentally, I've got a Freelander - a 58 reg - and the gearbox is lovely.
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Sounds as though you were a live study case for the apprentice to see " The master" demonstrate to the apprentice that he is gods gift to the world who is in control of you or what is more often mockingly said " How easy it is to sell cars to a dummy " .
I'm glad you prove otherwise .
We have the same words at all main dealers as well as secondhand car sale places.
I used to think that the asking price was always the price to pay but as I've go older & hopefully wiser realises in things motor vehicle and re:- big ticket things like land & houses it isn't , that if there is no joy simply walk away . If they want to make a sale they will comeback to you & then it is you who have the upper hand .
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I must admit to having noticed that car salesmen aren't into the negotiating in the way of the past - one used to at least get spats, mats and a dog guard out of them but at least they are more polite and good for a free coffee.
And it's not just big ticket stuff you can/could get a deal on - or could a few years ago. My first flat (1973) needed everything from an ironing board to basic china and i got 10% off. I also once bought 3 microwaves (me, mum amd mother in law) and negotiated a good discount circa 1985. I used regularly to negotiate discounts on Practice stuff to the point where one rep rang me a week afterwards to whine that they'd actually sold it to me for less than cost and their boss wasn't happy <g>. Those days are passing with internet pressures and a whole new culture of 'want it now' and no idea of the value of anything.
As to cars.. well car before last I failed to get a reduction on and the best I managed with my new expensive behemoth was a discount only 'cos it was the showroom model.
pgk
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I've always thought that if someone is interested enough to ask for a discount that the sale was pretty much in the bag and to refuse was to jeopardise the deal.
For me, if I ask and the answer is no, I usually walk away..
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I must admit to having noticed that car salesmen aren't into the negotiating in the way of the past
Yes, that's my feeling too. Quite why, I don't know, but I suspect the Internet has a lot to do with it. All I need to do in a dealer's these days is nip to the loo, and I have a device in my pocket that can almost instantly tell me the asking price for every car of that spec currently for sale nationwide. If knowledge is power, it doesn't come much more powerful than that!
The other piece of evidence I have is that when I first bought a car in 1998, I remember that all of the sticker prices were £5-600 higher than the prices in the Parker's book (this was for cars priced at £4-5K). The only place that was asking anywhere near the guide price was a car supermarket with a well publicised 'no haggling' rule, though of course all their cars were far too new for me.
This time round, I've noticed that most cars are being advertised at much closer to the guide price, so it does indeed seem that there is less room for negotiation these days.
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I never negotiate. :innocent: I work out how much I want to pay in addition to what I think my old car is worth (after research)
Then when I see a car I want I let them ramble on about giving me this that and the next, and as they proceed i do the 'sharp intake of breath' and the sucking my teeth routines. Eventually they say - OK so how much were you wanting to invest? I mentally reduce my figure by at least £2000, give them that as the change over price, and watch their faces for reaction. Depending on that I'll perhaps increase it but no more than my original figure.
Arnold clark don't like me. :eyelashes:
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OK Annie, if you fancy a challenge, go into Arnold Clark Stirling and pose as my Mum or something. I'd be fascinated to see if you have any more luck than I did! ;D
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I don't think that this sort of negotiation is saved for cars. My son recently bought a house off plan. In my day it was a good negotiation tool to get carpets, up spec'd kitchen etc plus the price was frozen at the time of paying the deposit. Not these days unfortunately, he's been told that he will have to pay for turf, fences, flooring and worst of all, if the value of the property increases during the year it is being built, he will have to pay the difference. I don't think it works the other way though!
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I think its true that there is an almost coordinated movement for car sales to be sticker price only.
My friend had the 'cant reduce price treatment' and walked away and I thought I could do better - spent over an hour trying to convince them to reduce the car price even to the point that they thought I was a 'secret shopper' sent from head office (overheard conversation) but no luck for me at all and I walked away.
A few weeks ago at a different car supermarket I initially got the same 'the cars are proced to sell' treatment and I was just very specific - I just said I needed £365 off the price to match a fictitious car at a competitive garage - that seemed to work - not bad from a car which only cost just over £5k - so it can be done.
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Just go into the showroom with a bag containing £10,000 cash, show it to the sales man, then leave.
Bet you don't make it back to the car !
Did similar at Johns Clark Skoda in Aberdeen when purchasing the new skoda :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Same a few years back at the Peugeot dealer who greeted us with " the used cars are at the back" judging us on our down to earth appearance .
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Cash would probably work with an independant but a national dealership would have concerns about their 'duty of care' re money laundering and checking all those notes for forgeries.. all they want is bank transfers for a money trail.In the london area you'd be lucky to get as far as the dealership with that much cash.....
pgk
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I’ve been greeted with:
“can I help you sir”?
Em Sir is a Miss!
“Does Mrs like the colour of the car?”
I’ve been ignored by salesman........
Well I was wearing combat jacket, wellies and a bunnet!!! :roflanim:
Went back next day in wearing a dress and heels ........
I managed to get a new rear wiper unit, wheel trim and the window winder handle glued back on with my last purchase
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Went back next day in wearing a dress and heels ........
I managed to get a new rear wiper unit, wheel trim and the window winder handle glued back on with my last purchase
So THAT'S where I went wrong! Oh well, a quick visit to the charity shop, and it seems that my haggling woes will soon be over. Thanks Cans!! :thumbsup:
Your story reminds me of an experience once in Kwikfit, only the other way around. I was waiting in their wee office bit, when the phone rang. Their apprentice answered it, listened for a bit and then shouted through to the boss "That's Mrs Paterson on the phone, complaining about {something or other}". The boss shouted back "Have I taught you nothing? If it's a woman, bulls**t her!".
I just remember my first reaction being one of shock that he'd said something like that, and even worse, in front of customers. My second reaction was "I really hope that Mrs Paterson is a professor of Mechanical Engineering or something!" ;D
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Cash would probably work with an independant but a national dealership would have concerns about their 'duty of care' re money laundering and checking all those notes for forgeries.. all they want is bank transfers for a money trail.In the london area you'd be lucky to get as far as the dealership with that much cash.....
pgk
Most reputable garages are registered with HMRC as high value cash dealers so transactions of €10k and over are ok, be prepared at a later date to demonstrate to HMRC where you got the dosh from if its a lot , well quite a lot !
I'm sure they would take the time to count it all out ( unless its 50p's :D )
Its all academical really , how often do any of us wander around with carrier bags of £20 notes .........
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As I understand it gov has now made business responsible for money laundering issues with risks of fines etc..
Before crdit cards becoming the norm V would often stroll down to the bank (a mile and a half away) with the Practice takings in a Tesco carrier bag. The £4K+ of that era was worth more than £10K today. She did at least vary the time and day...
..another story coming on..
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Thanks everyone - a very interesting discussion. I actually wish this change had happened 20 years ago, as it would have saved me from being ripped off a couple of times when I was younger.
Anyway, the good news is that I managed to get what I think is a fair deal on a Subaru Forester. I was only nearly convinced, until the salesman let me take it up a flooded and rutted farm track: SOLD!! This is no pretend 4x4! ;D .
Anyway, I managed to negotiate down to £400 below Parker's guide price, plus a tank of fuel and a towbar fitted at cost (yes, I was sceptical about that bit too, but two local towbar places wanted significantly more, so possibly not!). It certainly ain't a bargain, but it seems a fair price to me, and was all agreed courteously, so I'm happy. Actually I'm most happy about not having to go through that again for a few more years at least!
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Well done. I hope you got them to wash it before delivery <s>
Before we came here V demanded a 4x4 for bad weather so we went looking. I test drove the Nissan X-Trail we have on what turned out to be a day after a night of heavy snow - unusual in S London but some decent drifts. I'd done my usual test-driving of seeing how good the brakes were (Salesman peeled himself of the windscreen despite my warning) and then seeing if I could make it skid on a quiet side road tight bend (Salesman crossed himself) and then asked if i could test it's off-road capability..
..the best i could find was a quiet Housing Estate with wide grass verges and a small central park-like strip all covered in a foot of snow and big lumps of bulldozed snowbanks. V is used to my test-drive game but salesman really did go pale and then green when i hurled it through that lot - but the car passed.
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Well done. I hope you got them to wash it before delivery
Yes of course. I always keep my cars immaculate, and would never be seen driving one with dirt on it#.
some decent drifts.
Wow. I don't mind driving a car hard on a test drive, but I've never tried drifting!! :o Interestingly, the X-trail was my other choice. Substantially more expensive though, and difficult to find in 5 seater 4wd configuration.
# The other day I was walking back to the Landy in Tesco's car park when a bloke in front of me turned to his girlfriend and said "what the hell? it seems we're parked next to Indiana Jones or something!". They then went to their car and I went to mine. At this, the poor chap turned bright red and apologised profusely. I couldn't stop laughing for ages! Yeah, you can go fast pal. I can go anywhere ;D
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Our x-trail is 2008.. a year old when we bought it and moved down here.
The car for drifting is my s13 200sx (white car) which oddly I didn't test drive hard or even know it was used as a drifting car. I'd be loaned a 300z for a week and loved it but couldn't find one at my price so settled for the same body shape 200sx instead... was a 6mth old demo car when i bought it 25yrs ago and I still love it albeit it gets treated with care now and is getting very tired.
I discovered it's drifting capabilities the unpleasant way on a damp and greasy road wen it fishtailed on me at speed and i was bruised by seatbelts before getting control - hence wanting to know a car's vices before purchase. White car never let me down.. even when i blew it's big ends it got me home (slowly)
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If there is one thing I hate and can't stand, then its shopping for a new car. I'm fortunate that my car is a company vehicle so its ok relatively speaking - choose from a list and as long as it goes I'm happy. But car shopping for the boss....then that's a different story.
We will never go back to any Mr C's outlets - as well as a couple of major issues, when searching all questions were addressed at me when they should have been addressing the boss who is more of a petrol head than I will ever be. She wasn't happy and nor was I. They assumed we were married......they were corrected....then assumed it was Ms or Miss......corrected again......Dr. Awkward :innocent:
Generally speaking, I find the service (sales, service) in these places dreadful.
Our last purchase was relatively hassle free but it still took us 3.5hrs of our life that we wont get back. After this length of time, I've lost the power and will to haggle and I just want out of there.
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I liked my Forester, and yes it is a REAL off road vehicle, but believe me they are alcoholics! Be warned :innocent:
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My recent purchase from Stirling dropped by £750 online and I got £200 more on my trade in by haggling ( not A C ) Told me 1 could pay max £3000 cash max £7000 by card and bank transfer only above this