The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: moprabbit on June 23, 2018, 07:19:17 pm
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Wondered if anyone could tell me a little bit more about this. I've tried googling it but can't find much about it apart from it can be caused by eating a lot of grain. Just wondered what else can cause it and how to treat it. I expect it's similar to horses, keeping the grazing to minimum, but would be grateful if anyone has had any experience of this in sheep and how they dealt with it. Thank you.
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Never ever seen it or know of anyone who has , just know it is mentioned in vet books related to feeding heavy amounts of pellets or cereals . Have you spoken to your vet for diagnosis and treatment ??
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Never heard of it. You sure you are not thinking of scauld?
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Thanks for the replies. One of my ewes has been slightly lame on and off for sometime, with no visible cause. She's only lame for a day or so. When she's not lame, as she grazes she's always lifting her legs up, particularly her left one. I thought it could possibly be arthritis but wanted to know for sure, so got my vet to xray her front legs. He couldn't see any signs of arthritis but as she is owerweight suggested it could be laminitis, therefore restrict her grazing. I've looked on the Internet, there is some mention of it but not a great deal, that's why I wondered if anyone on the forum had any experience.
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You can only try the advice and see what happens ?? You could try asking in goats as they seem a little more susceptible ? Did the x ray cover the shoulder as well ??
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No, Shep, the x rays were only of the ankle and knee joints, but he examined her well and found nothing that indicated arthritis in any joint, no 'clicking' etc.Thanks for your interest.
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Just wondering what would happen if she was lame and you gave her an injection of painkiller /anti inflammatory , my knees don't click and the x rays only show fluid and some days fine next day pain
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She's actually on a pain killer/anti inflammatory. Thanks Shep.
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I have not had it in sheep but have had it in a dairy cow many years ago.
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Hi MR, sorry to go back to the obvious, but presume you and/or vet have checked for foot rot or hoof wall separating and getting mud/small pieces of stone? Wet weather will have caused a lot of foot problems?
I have had Lammy in my goat, but that was post kidding and due to her getting to the feed bin.
Are feet warm? Does she walk strange (called goose stepping by some), hoof is hard to trim and apparently fast growing.
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Hi PHB! Thanks for your post. Yes, checked for the obvious things like scald, foot rot, shelly hoof. Her hooves aren't hot, but they are quite hard to trim. She walks quite normally, not goose stepping. She's now on a very restricted diet of poor grass, so I hope that will help. How did you treat your goat? Thanks
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Hi PHB! Thanks for your post. Yes, checked for the obvious things like scald, foot rot, shelly hoof. Her hooves aren't hot, but they are quite hard to trim. She walks quite normally, not goose stepping. She's now on a very restricted diet of poor grass, so I hope that will help. How did you treat your goat? Thanks
She was quite bad, didn't want to stand, feet hot, so Pen & Strep, cut back on concentrates, found veg for her, but it was difficult, slowly built up again. But that was quite acute and there wasn't time to mess about. She was fine this year.
I have one who goes a bit lame now and then, because she gets mud/soil under her hoof wall, which i have to cut away to give it chance to grow out.
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was this a farm vet or domestic. Sadly domestic vets have little experience with farm stock and Im sure some of them make it up. Ive never heard of a vet xray a sheep leg before either. A good farm vet will know be feeling the leg.
How old and how was she bred? If she had joint ill as a lamb then that stays around for life and I would assume some form of arthritis from this. http://www.netvet.co.uk/sheep/joint-ill.htm (http://www.netvet.co.uk/sheep/joint-ill.htm)
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Thanks for the reply Farmers Wife. My vet is a farm vet. I asked for the x rays as she's been susceptible to lameness for sometime and I just wondered if there was something going on that we couldn't see. She's a mule x Charolais and is 8 years old. As a lamb, she didn't have joint ill.
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I cant really locate much on this in sheep - usually Nadis contains everything you need. But I have seen snippits saying sheep get it but cant find anything written.
Having read a little about horses the only thing I can assume is the age of the sheep and the carbohydrate metabolic disfunction (incl breed) and the sheep being overweight for some time due to being overfed ?
[font=]The relationship between insulin and laminitis – horses with a genetic predisposition to EMS (with increased risk if also fat) or with PPID will develop insulin resistance. Horses with insulin resistance that eat high carbohydrate [CHO] diets (e.g. high starch in grain diets or high sugars [non-structural carbohydrates; NSC] in rich pasture or good quality hay diets) develop high insulin [hyperinsulinaemia] which causes laminitis[/color][/font]
[/color]Assuming its a pet and you have hand fed additional carbs then the issue is there and because most sheep are grazing on grass they don't get extra feed. Ive never had sheep this old so cant comment on older sheep as they go off after 5 years. Perhaps because she is older then the chances are higher. Seems pretty reasonable to think this.
In horses they cut their food back but not sure you can do this and unsure whether the damage has already been done. You don't need to additionally feed sheep. Just grass and hay. You could try this and see how it goes.
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Thanks for that information Farmers Wife. I know it's about horses but interesting nevertheless. She is overweight and that is what I'm working on now.They've got a very small area of poor grass and when it rains and the grass starts to grow again, I'll make it smaller still. Thanks for your interest and help.
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Restricting grazing for sheep is a very bad idea, - they are ruminants and need a constant throughput of feed, cutting them down can stress them and make them ill irregardless of body condition. The way to address the condition is to lower the ME & Protien of the diet, IE no supliments and longer grazing (Longer grass has a lower ME/protien and energy content and takes longer to digest than short grass, quite asside from the fact its not good for the ground to be grazed too short.
If the sheep is persistently lame - the kindest and correct thing to do is to send her off - She could likely have a joint issue, or maybe have damaged some cartilage running, or have had a foot infection in the winter, which has damaged the joint, which she will not likely recover from. Spending money treating something like that is pointless as you will spend 5x the sheeps value and are highly unlikely to see a recovery, if as you say it keeps re-occuring.
Laminitis does not really occur in sheep, and if it did, the kindest thing would be to send it off - sheep, due to the way they are build and eat are not good at recovering from illness - and As I have found, a persistently lame sheep will always be so with any treatment only really being a sticking plaster to the underlying issue. (I have fought to keep a £700 texel stud ewe good for years but ate her in the end) - make her comfortable, try anti inflammatory and if after 4 weeks no good... time to send.
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This is really interesting as my ram is lame on and off and I was beginning to wonder about laminitis? I’ve reduced hard feed to a bare minimum ( I like to gather them daily to check) and now the grass is reduced he seems much better, I’m thinking it could be arthritis but while he’s improved I’ll leave him alone!
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This is really interesting as my ram is lame on and off and I was beginning to wonder about laminitis? I’ve reduced hard feed to a bare minimum ( I like to gather them daily to check)
You don't need hard feed daily to gather sheep a one hand full (to a whole group of sheep) once or twice a week will keep them running to you.
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Thankyou, it is only a handful but I like to gather them daily ;D
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Maybe use grass nuts rather than a cereal based feed? Ours love the Dengie grass pellets just as much as any other feed.
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Just looked at the Dengie website and it suggested soaking the pellets.Do you do that Sallyintnorth?
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I only soak them if I'm feeding 0.5kg or so to a horse. A couple of handfuls to the sheep are fine. The recommendation to soak is because if a horse eats a couple of Stubbs scoops'-worth dry, they'll swell as they go through the digestive system and possibly cause colic.
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We did mix with soaked sugar beet at first, while the sheep got used to them, but now we just feed dry.
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Ok! Thank you for the reply.