The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: PK on March 28, 2018, 12:32:34 pm
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Two of our Wiltshire Horn ewes are about seven or eight years old. In the last three years we have had them for lambing, including this year, they have lambed unproblematically, are demonstrably good mothers and have regained condition okay over the summer ready for tupping. At what point do you decide this will be their final breeding season?
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In the early days when building up numbers in our flock I regularly kept 10-crop Southdowns. Now numbers are where I want them I generally cull any ewes older than 8 unless outstanding with regard to mothering, condition and prolificacy. I find that Badger Face older than 7 have an increased tendency to develop mastitis as lambing approaches, even though they were clear both the previous lambing and at the pre-tupping check. My guess is that because their teats are much larger than those of the Southdown (can't remember when we last had a case of mastitis in one of those) bacteria will track up the duct much more easily as the teat enlarges and softens due to impending lambing.
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Two of our Wiltshire Horn ewes are about seven or eight years old. In the last three years we have had them for lambing, including this year, they have lambed unproblematically, are demonstrably good mothers and have regained condition okay over the summer ready for tupping. At what point do you decide this will be their final breeding season?
When their teeth are too worn down to get through another winter.
If you were in a hard place - like north Cumbria, for instance - then I might say 6 or 7 crops is plenty, but in West Suffolk on good ground, they could be good for another few crops yet. Having said that, I do know of Cumbrian farmers who've had mountain and hill sheep lambing happily into their mid-teens and, rarely, beyond.
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I suppose it just comes down to health..
Anything obvious like mastitis, prolapse, lameness and its an easy decision. I check their mouths in the autumn before putting the ram in and often get a surprise. A couple of missing teeth I don't mind but sometimes they have only one or two teeth left. I cull those ones, even if she's a good weight. If a ewe is slow to recover after weaning I'll worm her and if she's still poor a month or sol later I cull.
Several of my ewes are at least 7 or 8, as long as their healthy and have enough teeth to get by and are a healthy weight, I'd be happy to keep them in flock.
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For me as a commercial farmer it comes down to balancing Productivity --against ---cost of maintenance
On average a ewe costs more to keep (vet/med/feed) after 5 or 6 lambings and is best gotten rid of whilst there is some £ value in her (that said i have 12 year old ewes that don't get any more help than anyone else)
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Very difficult - I have just put a 9yo Shetland ewe down because she got twin lamb/hypocalcaemia and had 4 weeks to go until due date. She had still all her teeth and was in really good condition in the autumn. However the snow we got end of February just did it for her. I noticed she looked a bit hollowed out, and when feeling her spine last week (she wasn't easily caught until she collapsed) she was very skinny... so difficult decision, I thought she would do another lambing (she was from my first ever crop of lambs back in 2009 - still had metal tags! and her dam was 12 when she lambed her), but we cannot predict everything... am feeling quite sad about it.
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Thanks all, some helpful information there. As far as costs and attention are concerned the two ewes in question have to date not been treated any differently than the other ewes. I’ll see how they get on over the summer.
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To me, it depends on whether you need to make a profit from your sheep, or if they are rather more of a hobby.
We keep Hebrideans, which are claimed in the breed description to be long lived, amongst other traits. Well, you can only be sure your lines are long lived if you go on breeding from them for their natural life. Sheep are culled for a host of reasons, but I see no reason to cull them when they are still young (for a Heb, 8 is young), just because that's what others do. We have continued putting our ewes to the tup for as long as they are full mouthed and maintain good condition and health. This means until they are 15 or 16 in some cases, and 5 in one case (she lost a tooth so became a non-breeding lawnmower), and all points between.
Your ewes are of a similar hardy type to Hebs, so could well be a longlived breed. Why not continue to breed from her until she has to stop? By the time our ewes are too old to breed (in our minds not theirs - they're always willing!) they are probably too ancient to eat them, so we don't. However, we will have had up to 14 or 15 crops of lambs from them.
The older a ewe, the better mother she is likely to be, and if you have a good healthy ewe, with good feet, good udder and milky, easy lambing and able to raise twins with no problem, then to keep her offspring as your replacements can only improve the breed. If you bump them off at 7 or 8, you have no way to know what their potential is.
For teeth, we have found that as soon as they lose a tooth, the rest usually follow and while they are coming out, the ewe will not eat enough as the mouth is sore, so cannot be bred. However, after all teeth are out, they can eat enough to support themselves, but not grow lambs, so they are kept on as old biddies to keep the grass down and keep the flock calm. They will need a bit of coarse mix but otherwise can maintain good condition. Once they lose their back teeth (molars) they are done for.
So back to my first point - if you have to make a profit, then cull before you have a problem, but if you can afford a little extra feed and keep them on as lawnmowers, and you like the ewe, then keep her. Not sound commercially but if you're a hobby farmer it doesn't matter.
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Very difficult - I have just put a 9yo Shetland ewe down because she got twin lamb/hypocalcaemia and had 4 weeks to go until due date. She had still all her teeth and was in really good condition in the autumn. However the snow we got end of February just did it for her. I noticed she looked a bit hollowed out, and when feeling her spine last week (she wasn't easily caught until she collapsed) she was very skinny... so difficult decision, I thought she would do another lambing (she was from my first ever crop of lambs back in 2009 - still had metal tags! and her dam was 12 when she lambed her), but we cannot predict everything... am feeling quite sad about it.
:hug: :bouquet: We do get very fond of our ewes, don’t we. And especially when it’s a member of the foundation flock. :hug:
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Very difficult - I have just put a 9yo Shetland ewe down because she got twin lamb/hypocalcaemia and had 4 weeks to go until due date. She had still all her teeth and was in really good condition in the autumn. However the snow we got end of February just did it for her. I noticed she looked a bit hollowed out, and when feeling her spine last week (she wasn't easily caught until she collapsed) she was very skinny... so difficult decision, I thought she would do another lambing (she was from my first ever crop of lambs back in 2009 - still had metal tags! and her dam was 12 when she lambed her), but we cannot predict everything... am feeling quite sad about it.
:hug: :bouquet: We do get very fond of our ewes, don’t we. And especially when it’s a member of the foundation flock. :hug:
Yep, she was a character... sadly I didn't keep any of her early daughters, and now that line is gone... but she had a good innings! Still got another ewe from the same year, but didn't breed her this year, so she will stay out her days as a lawnmower...