The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Food & crafts => Crafts => Topic started by: Fleecewife on August 04, 2010, 12:27:36 am
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I was wondering what other spinners are working on. I have been concentrating on Hebridean fleece for a few years now but the other day I bought a pale cream alpaca fleece so I've started spinning that. It comes out slightly thicker than I would have expected, but pretty much the same as all the other alpaca handspun I've seen. Makes me itch though, probably all the floating fibres. I'm hoping to ply it with a darker alpaca I bought last year to make a cosy shawl for breakfast in bed in the winter ;D ;D I was also wondering about adding glitter to it somehow. I don't like angelina but wondered about beads. Does anyone do that?
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Oh no replies :( I thought there were other spinners on here.......
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Sorry, I know nothing about spinning. I did however find your description of what you were doing fascinating. I think in life, I am a maker rather than a talker for instance or a planner so I am amazed when people like yourself have the confidence and ability to do what you are obviously good at and produce something tangible at the end.
Keep up the good work and post piccies if you can :)
Ian
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Thank you Ian. With spinning, it looks difficult but is actually extremely easy once you get going. I taught myself because I had sheep and loads of fleece and it seemed the obvious thing to do. Mostly I make working jumpers, socks, hats and so on, and do demos at shows, but I do fancy a nice luxurious shawl for when I pretend to be waited on hand and foot ::)
For pics, I can take them but haven't yet worked out how to post them here - computers I'm not good with ;D ;D That's what OHs are for - I make him socks, he posts my pics :D.
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Incidentally Ian, is your dog in the pic a malamut? Sorry if I've got that wrong....does it have an undercoat? I used to have a huge dog, Wolfhound cross Anatolian Karabash who had a wonderful undercoat. I collected bags of it ready to spin with wool but OH threw it out one day when he thought I was just being untidy :( ;D. Then she died - the dog. So I had no lovely dog fur to spin (my current terriers don't shed). Dog fur apparently makes incredibly warm clothes, but has to be mixed with wool to spin and tends to smell of wet dog if you get caught in a rain shower :D
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Hello Fleecewife, yep he sure is a Mal and boy does he shed :D We also have two Leonbergers who shed too. We take them to the park every weekend and it looks like something has died there lol
If you want, we'll keep the fur for you. Does it matter if any of the top coat comes with it too?
By the way, I spend a lot of time with the dogs and probably smell like a wet dog anyway :D :D
Ian
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Didn't know if I ought to answer as I spin for a living, rather than as a hobby.
Well, I spin as a hobby too when I have time!
I've just finished a lovey grey shetland fleece comission, I'm onto a bag of Estrela mountain dog now, which is looking pretty good so far. Next on the list will be a Ryeland for a TAS member.
I've never blended any dog hair with wool to spin it though, and if washed correctly after spinning, it doesn't smell of wet dog!
I'm a bit of a shawl addict, are you knitting or crocheting yours?
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Hi Ian. Yes please, I'd love some :), just enough to try - maybe a supermarket carrier bag full?. I'll ask Murmuringwheel about the guard hairs but I would think it's fairly difficult to avoid including some. Thank you and your dogs in advance
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Hi Murmuring Wheel. I'm glad you replied - spinning is spinning :) I'm amazed and impressed that you can make a living from spinning. How long does it take you to spin, say, the Shetland fleece? I assume you wash and card it too. Do you charge by weight, or yarn length, or time taken?
I thought you needed the wool to help the dog fur to hold together? Interesting that you don't ! What would be your answer to Ian's question about whether it matters if the bag includes some of the top coat? Would you pick out the guard hairs or include them in the yarn? How do you prepare the dog hair for spinning?
My shawl will be knitted (can't crochet very well) and will not be a wedding ring type as I definitely don't have the patience for that. Also the alpaca is coming out thicker than I had intended. I love shawls too and have several hand knitted ones, but none which are also handspun - yet !
Have you used additives like angelina? I bought some but have never used it as it seems too coarse and artificial.
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Hello, I'm new to this forum but interested in spinning, so I hope you don't mind me posting here.
I had a little introductory lesson a few months ago, and was rather taken by it. I started knitting and crocheting again this winter after a long time off (Basically I used to work too much, but since I left, I've much more time on my hands 8) ) From that I wanted to find out more about yarn/fibre, spinning and dyeing. The wheels are pretty expensive though, even a second hand one.
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Hello Scotelf. Don't be put off by the price of wheels. For learning, a spindle is fine and once you have mastered that you can spin on anything. Are you in Scotland? Anywhere near Biggar? If you need help/support with spinning that's where I am :) Otherwise there are Guilds all over the place where you should find someone with helpful advice and maybe wheels for sale.
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Hi, I am in West Lothian, and have one of my horses grazing in Lanark at the moment, so I'm in your area quite frequently. I haven't a clue about the use of a spindle for spinning, but would love a try ::)
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Hi Fleecewife,
I'm sometimes amazed I can make a living from it too!
It depends on the size of the fleece ( I'm amazed how Shetlands can vary in size!) and the thickness I'm spinning, but on average if I'm spinning it DK-ish, I can get a Shetland done in a good 8 - 10hour day.
I don't card unless it's very difficult to draft, or I'm blending colours together. I normally spin in the grease and wash the skeins afterwards. My charging methods vary as each job is so different, depending on a lot of factors, ie. how clean the fleece is, do I need to do lots of picking bits out and preparation, thickness of yarn and what the customer wants to use the finished yarn for.
Most dog hair is long enough to hold together by itself, you just need to change the drafting technique sometimes and pay attention to how much twist is going in. If it's nice open hair, I just grab a handful and spin, no preparation necessary. As for guard hairs in the fibre, all I would suggest is spinning a short piece, plying it back on itself and feeling it against your skin. Some guard hairs are very prickly but some you hardly notice and they can add a nice texture to the yarn.
One thing I would say to Ian: if you are going to save the hair, please make sure you store it in a cardboard box or paper bag, if you keep it in plastic, Fleecewife will have a large lump of felt to deal with!
And, no, I haven't tried angelina. One day I will find time to experiment!
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OK cardboard box it is then :)
Ian
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Hi Scotelf. Can you pm me when you are going to be in the area and we can have a prelim meeting. I bit busy just now with trying to rescue the very wet hay, but into Sept should have more time (ha :D)
Re: what are you spinning ?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2010, 05:57:10 PM » Quote
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Hi, I am in West Lothian, and have one of my horses grazing in Lanark at the moment, so I'm in your area quite frequently. I haven't a clue about the use of a spindle for spinning, but would love a try
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Hi murmuring wheel. Thank you for all that info. 8-10 hours to spin a fleece ! Amazing ! It takes me weeks :D But then I have never had a clear 8-10 hours to spend spinning, not being a professional - just have to fit it in here and there :(. I used to spin in the grease but Hebridean in particular seems to be quite mucky so I now wash it first, just enough to remove the dirt but not the lanolin. Also I usually separate the two coats. Previously I had to scrub my wheel every now and then as it got so dirty. When I think about it, I spend far longer on preparation than on the actual spinning. I tried the lazy way once of sending fleeces off to be washed and carded but they came back full of little noils so I still have the sack with probably half of the 5 fleeces in it, unspun. With hand preparation I would have dealt with that at the beginning.
Yes, shetland fleeces vary dramatically in size, don't they. I have an ancient old lady who has a tiny but very crimpy fleece - saving up 3 years to spin something from that. I now have 4 rescue shetlands (in addition to my Hebs and Soays) so will see what their fleeces are like next year. I am also acquiring a black Ryeland fleece in exchange for some jam :) so that will be fun to work on over the winter.
I looked at your site and saw the great wheel - wonderful. I had a brief go on one........
Thanks too for the advice on the dog hair - I'm looking forward to that Ian :)
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Hi Scotelf. Can you pm me when you are going to be in the area and we can have a prelim meeting. I bit busy just now with trying to rescue the very wet hay, but into Sept should have more time (ha )
That's very kind of you Fleecewife, thank you. I hope the weather does improve for the hay, the rain seems to have been non stop. I will also have more time in a few weeks when little person return to school.
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I have a surplus or Shetland sheep wool every year. I twice contacted the Edinburgh spinning club offering my wool free to anyone who wanted it, I also have offered my wool to any spinners that I have come across at various places even offered to deliver but alas no takers which led me to believe that they were just playing at the game deluding themself into thinking there were the custodians of an old skill. So I once again put on offer my Shetland wool which will be next years as I burned last years. Any takers. Did once deliver all my wool to my sister up Inverness way for an acquaintance who was going to felt with the wool never heard a peep another wannabee I think.Once again free wool any takers.
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Hi Bigchicken - most "urban" spinners buy it ready carded, for spinning straight away. Much easier for them, and no smell....
I only keep the nicest of my fleeces and then wash/card and spin them, but it takes me a very long time and so the garage is filling up with my shetland fleeces too....
Best bet would be to send them to woolfest?
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There are also various people and companies who will buy Shetland wool - if it is clean and well skirted. Ask the Shetland Sheep Society, Mull weavers, British Coloured Sheep Breeders Association (who will give advice on the quality and preparation of fleece to be offered for sale) and some of the spinning supplies shops who may be looking for fleece to sell on. Fleeces offered at Wool Fest must be very clean and well presented. You could also look to getting your fleeces processed into roving or tops at somewhere like the Natural Fibre Company, then selling it on to spinners online. Fleeces can also be sold in their raw state online but again be sure you have picked out the best.
I have strong feelings about giving away fleece, to do with the psychology of it. If someone gets something for free, then they will not value it. What you are saying in effect is "here is something I would otherwise throw away/burn, but I'm giving it to you". If a spinner is going to spend months working with a raw fleece, she will want to choose the best she can buy - clean, no veg matter contamination, no crayon marks, sound staple, evenly coloured, the appropriate crimp for her project, unfelted, the right colour esp in Shetland fleece, and so on. In other words not every fleece offered is going to be suitable for spinning - you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear !!
Few modern spinners have room to store more than a couple of fleeces, so they will be very picky about what they can give house room to. Also as Anke says, many spinners buy ready dyed or carded fleece, to save having to deal with a raw fleece. Spinners today are absolutely spoiled for choice with the amazing variety of fibres on offer - not just wool, but alpaca, quiviut, angora, camel, cashmere, ramie, silk, on and on, in any stunning colour you could ever want. So to sell your fleeces to handspinners, you need to tempt and woo them, not offer to unload a whole trailer full of raw fleece at their doorstep. In fact Edinburgh spinners have opportunities to buy some of the best fleece to be found in Britain when they go to the Broughton gather, and they are remarkably picky about even that !! Try contacting the BCSBA (above) for more info on how to market fleece - they have been doing it for years.
I think maybe you have missed realising that far from being wannabes, many spinners are highly skilled crafts people and know exactly what they want. Or if you are a skilled salesperson, you can convince them that what you have is what they want - at a price !!
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All good and very valid points, I will certainly look into these avenues. I am a ex member of the SSS and have attended wool evaluation days and taken advice from many Shetland breeders as to wool quality so I know a little bit about good fleeces and not so good fleeces. I have a small amount of wool and as you say not all are good fleeces but some of them are very good. I have heard that £5.00 is the price payed for the winning Shetland fleece at the Royal Highland Show Maybe you could enlighten me as to how much you have heard has been payed for a good Shetland fleece.
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Well, I think £5 is an absolute insult :o Back in the 1970s spinners expected to pay £5 for a fleece. We definitely haven't kept up with inflation, but I wouldn't take less than £10. Plenty of breeders do though - everyone needs to stick to their guns. For £10 I would expect, as a spinner, to be getting a fairly clean fleece, skirted and without obvious veg matter or any major flaws - in other words a good but not excellent fleece. For that I would pay a couple of £s more. However, I don't buy fleece. So, if I was selling, for £10 I would handshear, skirt and roll a clean fleece and pack it nicely in a white polypropylene sack. For £12 or so, I would pick over the fleece as for a show. What else would £10 buy you today? Not a lot !
Top prices are paid for fleeces which are different in some way, such as a handshorn, very fine, crimpy Polwarth cross, especially black. That might sell for £40, but probably for export, and would be immaculate. I don't have any of those but i did once have Polwarth/Dorset/Ryeland crosses with Jacob or Gotland, which produced exquisite fleeces which I could sell for up to £20, 8 or 9 years ago, here.
Even these prices I think are not fair for the amount of work one has to put in to make them perfect - which of course begins with your breeding, pasture care, feeding, general health care, shearing, skirting and general fleece prep, storage and presentation - quite a lot for ten quid !!
Then you should consider just how long each spinner will be working on a single fleece - for many spinners, months. Surely they should be prepared to spend more on the raw materials of their craft? Even card makers will spend far more on their raw materials.
I feel so strongly that both fleece producers and their customers - spinners and felters - should take sufficient pride in their products that they are prepared to ask and pay a price which reflects the true value of the fleece , rather than treating this wonderful material as if it's waste - and yes I know that's how it's classified ???
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Although I should add that the fleeces at RHS last year were horribly trampled underfoot when the stands collapsed under the weight of people watching the shearing. I was lucky to get mine out just in time. The word is that this coming year we will have a new stand in the NSA tent.
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I was lucky enough to be given a wheel for Christmas - 2nd hand, but all seems to be in order. I am very excited about it and so keen to get going. I am really struggling to get to grips with all the different things going on at once, and I feel I need about 4 pairs of hands.
Too much twist, not winding on, twist going into the fleece - all that stuff. is it always like that to begin with?
I am using some carded fleece that the seller gave along with the wheel.
x
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Have you got a spinning guild near you - they are usually very helpful and could assist. But don't despair, it takes a wee while for the hands to work independently of the feet. Just try initially to treadle without any wool, just to get the wheel to stop/start with your feet only. then it is just patience and trying again and again. It will just click at some point.
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<<Too much twist, not winding on, twist going into the fleece >>
Yes it's always like that when you start ;D . First thing is to relax before you even try - if you are tense your spinning will be tense and not work.
Too much twist is because your feet are going faster than your hands - practice as Anke says, without any fleece, trying to turn the wheel as slowly as you can without it stopping and running backwards.
Not winding on is because you have slightly too little tension set - if you have scotch tension turn the knob an eighth or quarter turn and see what effect that has.(if you have double drive it's a bit more complicated but I can explain that too) The pull-in should be enough that you can feel it taking the yarn from your hands, but not so much that it snatches. You can check this with some commercial yarn tied onto your bobbin, just keep letting it be drawn in until you are happy with it. As the bobbin fills you need to increase the tension gradually.
Twist going into the fleece is probably because you are panicking and not relaxed. Your hands are trying to keep up with your feet so you are not pinching the untwisted fibre correctly. I spin a bit strangely so I won't give any advice there, but usually once you have relaxed, the problems go away.
Another tip is to work your rolags or batt out into thin rovings before you think of approaching the wheel - this is pre-drafting. It means that there is very little drafting needed once you start to spin, so you can concentrate more on the spinning action rather than drawing out the fibre. It makes lumps and bumps less likely to be a problem in the yarn. Just the action of using two hands to make the rovings helps to teach you how your fleece is behaving. Once you have made a length of roving, store it by wrapping loosely into 'nests'
It might help also to rub a little baby oil on your hands when you are spinning, especially if the carded fleece you have aquired has been left lying around and become dry.
It does eventually all click and you will be spinning away like a pro.
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iv neva spun but might do "one day" so have plenty of fleeces stored away. is there any special way to store them so they dont ruin. they are just in binbags, the way they were shorn.
;D ::) :wave:
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Hi Anke and Fleecewife.
Thank you for such good advice.
Anke - there is a spinning group quite near me, but i am visiting family on the mainland for a couple of weeks, which is where i bought my wheel. The first meeting I can get to will be at the beginning of Feb, so i am just a bit impatient. (Probably why I am having problems)
Fleecewife - what wonderful advice. i could feel myself relaxing as I read your post. I will calm down and just play around with the wheel - bought yarn and thin roving and see what happens.
xx
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Fleecewife,
When I get more time I would love a fleece (maybe even from my own sheep by then) but can you explain what you mean by well skirted. Its probably so obvious to everyone else but not to a newbie like me.
thanks
Sally
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Storing fleece and skirting fleece - these two are related ! Before you store fleece you should lay it out on a flat clean area and go over it. Skirting is where you go all around the edges (the skirt) and tear off any scrappy, dirty and poopy bits, plus the worst of the rough stuff at the britch (over the back legs - this is where the sheep lies so it tends to be coarser in some breeds). Basically you are removing bits of fleece which you are never going to use for anything. Very poopy wool can be soaked in water and this used as a plant food. As well as skirting, you pick off the worst of any veg matter over the rest of the fleece, and discard any wool which is stained with ram marker. It is also worth turning the whole fleece over and picking off any 'double cuts' which are little bits of short wool where the shearer has taken a second go to get close enough to the skin - these are a nuisance when spinning.
Once the fleece is cleaned in this way, you can either roll and store it directly or wash it first. I wash my best fleeces so I know there will be no storage problems, but I never manage more than about 12 each year as it takes a while. Bin bags are not good for storing fleece as the wool will sweat and can go mouldy, especially if it wasn't cooled and skirted before putting it away. Hessian sacks are ok if clean and without holes but much better are woven polypropylene sacks. I buy mine in but some feeds come in them so you can just turn them inside out and use for fleece. Old pillowcases can be good too - what you want is something which will let air circulate but not let moths in - and they can be very persistant. I currently have a moth problem and apart form totally gutting the house I can't see what to do. Once you have your fleece in a bag, tightly tied, it is best hung up somewhere airy, definitely not left dumped in a corner. Badly stored fleece might last a year, but well stored and washed fleece should last for several years.
While you are waiting to learn to spin, how about trying felting?
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what is felting, i am very ignorant ;D
i saw a demo at local craft shop not too far from us, so iv seen them brushing wool with metal (slicker) brushes, is that called carding?
i ve quite a few hebridean fleeces, some lambs wool and other older ones.
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Fleecewife,
thankyou for the comprehensive answer. You probably know whats coming next... whats the place place to find out about felting?
Sally
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Err - you just have a go ;D Actually there is a felters Guild so help is at hand. There are several ways to felt. You sometimes see 'boiled wool' jackets etc for sale - that is felted wool. One way to felt is to knit something, such as a bag, much bigger than you want the finished article, then put it in the washing machine, with something to separate the two layers, and something lumpy such as a pair of jeans to do the bashing. It will come out smaller and felted, ie with the individual wool fibres bonded to each other.
Felting can also be done with a long needle stabbed repeatedly into the carded wool - people make little dolls, birds etc like that.
The most common way to felt is using hot water and soap. First you card a lot of fleece and lay the batts out so they overlap and the fibres lie in various directions - not all facing the same way. Sprinkle very hot water over the pile and gently work it into the fibres. They will start to stick to each other and you keep working, adding more hot water and soap, until the fabric looks like a fluffy blanket rather than the original pile of wool and has shrunk quite a bit. Then you place it on some bubble wrap and roll it tightly. The roll needs to be rolled back and forwards for a while, then the developing felt taken out and 'shocked' by throwing it hard onto a surface. Eventually after a lot of handling, you will have a piece of felt. Nuno felting is much finer and uses a base of a piece of silk cloth, with tiny amounts of fibre added, with whisps of coloured silk fibres added to create a pattern. You can make beautiful scarves that way.
If you look on Utube there are videos of felting so you can see what I mean. It's very much of a messy, hands-on job, but something children absolutely love to do. The ultimate felt is a yurt cover. People who live nomadic lives in places such as Mongolia, make their yurt/tent coverings of felt using the wool of their own sheep. When it comes to the rolling bit, they put a long pole up the middle then drag it behind a horse up and down for ages. There is a Utube video of that too., probably under 'mongolian felting'
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i saw a demo at local craft shop not too far from us, so iv seen them brushing wool with metal (slicker) brushes, is that called carding?
i ve quite a few hebridean fleeces, some lambs wool and other older ones.
Yes the brushing is carding- it puts all the wool fibres in order, rather than all higgledypiggledy which they are after washing. You don't have to card if your fleeces are very clean and open, but with Hebs you will need to. Oddly, Heb lambswool is more difficult to spin than adult, but even then you have to be very choosy just which fleeces you spin. Some are wonderful, some are horrible ;D ::) I prefer old ladies fleeces which have become softer and lost some of the outer layer, leaving just the undercoat. The outer layer can be very long which is not easy to spin unless you are spinning worstead (ie without making rolags)
Barefoot crofter - I meant to say, you need to keep your wheel well oiled for easy spinning. I oil mine whenever it has stood for more than about 3 days. A dry wheel will not spin easily.
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Fleecewife,
You have so much sheep associated knowledge. How long have you kept sheep for?
Sally
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15 or 16 years. But I am also a farmers daughter so grew up with livestock.
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Loads of great advice here ;D
I'm going on my first spinning day on March 13th, really looking forward to it :)
Seems like I might have killed the fleeces I got a year or so ago and didn't store properly then. Oh well, better start again :P
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Hi jaykay - let us know how the spinning day goes 8)
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Didn't happen :-\ Need to look for another one, but after lambing/summer now maybe :)
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Oh what a shame :( What happened?
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Hi jaykay. I don't know where you are based and this would be at short notice, but Scottish Fibres just outside Edinburgh is having a one day beginners spinners course on April 2nd. Last day for application Mar 27. see scottishfibres.co.uk . If you can't make this one they may be running another later in the year. Or you could join your local Guild and pick it up as you go along :)
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Hi Fleecewife, I'm on Cumbria/NYorks border so Edinburgh is some distance for a day - hubby away that weekend too do can't stay over. Will look at their website though and see if I can arrange something another time, thank you!
Doesn't seem to be a very active guild around us. Actually, my mum can spin but it's as difficult booking a slot with her as getting to a course - she's a very busy lady :)