The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: InternationalNumpty on December 29, 2017, 11:36:09 pm
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The GPs are overworked and don't want to see us... we all know that. Some of us regularly travel for work to locations that don't appear as tourist destinations. Result of that is we sometimes eat things that are :yuck: and frequently result in :poo: if you'll pardon the expression!
So today I think :idea: "I'll be responsible and go get some worming tablets" - not for the dog or the livestock; they only get done after :poo: egg counts; but for me.
Not wanting to trouble the overworked GP, I reckon the pharmacist will do it; shouldn't be difficult. Walk in, ask for worming tablet, explain it's not for the dog, get worming tablet, pay and leave... Except that's not how it went.
First of all everyone in the queue took a step back when I asked for worming tablet... :thinking: well ok, each to his own and some of them did have kids with them (also known as germ machines in my house).
Then assistant ushers me to a corner to wait for a consultation with a pharmacist... after serving everyone else in the queue (so a good 15 minutes), pharmacist comes over for a confidential chat. I explain I want a broad spectrum wormer to clear out anything I may be carrying.
"But the whole family will need treatment"
"No they won't it's just me"
"But everyone in the house is at risk because you're sharing the same space"
"As I said, it's just me"
"But you'll have picked it up from a child who'll have got it from school"
"No, that's definitely not what happened. I'll have picked them up from one of my trips to Africa, Asia, the Americas or the remoter areas of Europe; but most likely either Africa or the Middle East".
"But anyone you've shared a bathroom with will need treatment"
"Really? So how are you going to trace everyone that's stayed in the same hotels, worked in the same offices, passed through (if you'll pardon the expression) the same airports, train stations etc then?"
"I don't think you understand how serious this is."
"Yes, I do. That's why I'd like a wormer to get clean"
"So do you have worms at the moment?"
"Probably but I haven't done an FEC to check; it's just highly likely given the locations I've visited and some of the symptoms I've had whilst travelling".
"Well this pill treats threadworms"
"OK, but threadworms are the unlikeliest of the options I'm facing surely? Those are the ones endemic to the UK that you pick up from kids normally? I'm looking for a broad spectrum treatment to cover roundworm and tapeworm as the more likely candidates for international traveller staying in locations where kitchen hygiene cannot always be guaranteed even if you do request everything including the salad is deep fried!"
"Oh we've nothing to treat that; you'll need to go see your GP or the hospital for that."
"Do you have any dog worming tablets to treat those worms"
"Yes but we couldn't sell you those"
"Why not?"
"They're not for human consumption"
"They're for my dog"
"What kind of dog do you have?"
??? :innocent: :eyelashes: :idea: "A great dane" (yeah I reckon that would be about the right weight)
"I'm sorry we don't have anything for a dog that size"
"OK thanks"
So almost an hour and still no wormer...
Anyone know what the correct dosage of wormer would be? I'm reckoning something with Albendazole or Praziquantel and Mebendazole or do I really really need to ask the vet to add my sample to the next FEC and then take the results to the doctor for a script? It seems totally pointless to me to take up the doc's time when if I was a horse I'd just take some paste, and if I was a dog or cat I'd pop a pill.
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You can have such fun in a long queue at the Pharmacist :roflanim:
Seriously, I would go and see your GP as just guessing what would be appropriate for what you could have, and guessing an appropriate dose for a human, are both pretty dodgy strategies. You won't be wasting her or his time - that's the folk who think they might have sprained a little finger last week, or who demand antibiotics for their colds. So don't be a tough guy, just do it properly and get along to the surgery.
It sounds like you have a very mysterious job. I bet there are lots of tales you could tell :eyelashes:
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:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim: Good drills InternationalNumpty
...and I thought it was only me self medicated with the vets supplied stuff. It worked, My GP made very little comment , he knows I'm eccentric...
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We used to have the reverse problem with our frequently constipated geriatric cat. Lactulose from the vet was extortionate, but the same stuff was far cheaper from the pharmacy.
After being refused a couple of times for saying it was for the cat, I just told them it was for my Mother-in-law, who was very old and yes, she had been using it for a while with no ill effects!
I'll be honest though InternationalNumpty, it's hardly surprising that a pharmacist wouldn't sell you dog wormer in the full knowledge that you'd take it yourself - it would lay them open to all sorts of professional misconduct claims (though from the tone of your post I reckon you already knew that). Get yourself down to your GP, or perhaps your local private travel clinic, if you don't want to burden the NHS? ;)
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I do think the world went mad while we weren't looking. Regulation, compliance, reporting and the threat of litigation have swarmed like locusts over all sorts of activities in this land. It's not clear to me that the benefits outweigh the costs of this burgeoning bureaucracy, but it is clear to me that sometimes what the paperwork says, and what actually is the case, are not the same, and the universal solution to such reality checks only ever seems to be more paperwork
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As a retired medic, I would definitely advocate seeking medical advice - 1). You are not sure you have worms 2). Dosage needs to be accurate to treat you correctly. You say you travel overseas for work - does your employment provide health insurance? Can you use this to seek help from a travel clinic, which may well be more equipped to deal with illnesses brought back from foreign climes? Please do not try treating yourself, in my experience this often does not end well!
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My friend used a dog wormer once. He felt ruff to begin with, but he's alright nooooooooowwwwwww.
:coat:
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I often wonder about popping to the vets when I have been diagnosed with a bacterial infection by the doc, who would prefer my immune system fights it off naturally, i.e. feel like :poo: for a couple of months. It’s so much easier to get an appointment and a prescription from the vet.
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Yes, I felt the same way when I enquired about giving our tup the snip. £60 to be done at home seemed like a bargain!
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I would look up the dog dose for something like panacur or albendazole and get it off the internet, or local farm store. I know Panacur is used extensively in underdeveloped countries and has a very high safety margin.
This is just my opinion so please all of you that don't agree please don't feel you have to point out all the potential dangers of self administration. A well researched lay person is often better qualified to sort out their own problem than a poorly motivated and health and safety/commonsense restricted professional.
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I am very interested in why if someone suggests worming sheep everyone jumps in with FEC advice cos we don't want to worm if not necessary and dangers of resistance of using wormer willy nilly ........... then a human comes along and they are being advised to just worm themselves with virtually anything from the net and not even medication recommended for human use .............. :thinking:
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A neighbour accidentally dosed his dog with a wormer containing a flukicide - the dog dropped dead immediately but of course the sheep didn't. Medicines can be very species specific.
Why would you not go to the doctor? I don't see the point of risking yourself for the sake of proving a point. I'm assuming here that you are not a trained pharmacist.
You need to remember too that TAS has members and guests from all over the world, so you may also be endangering other's lives by giving inaccurate information.
In reply to your question 'is it me or...' - yes, it's you ::)
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Treating worms in humans can be complicated. There's even a chance that making the bowel inhospitable to some species forces them to migrate out of the gut and end up in other organs.
Having worms may make you healthier, reducing asthema symptoms and allergies. GP for this, test before treatment, funny as it is.
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There was work started on Albendazole for humans many years ago. It didn't progress very far. It was regarded as unsafe in pregnant humans and since in Africa most child bearing age women are, have been or will be it was not progressed. Some wise advice on this thread (excuse pun) and some (for this usually sensible forum) unusually irresponsible 'advice' too. Unnecessary bureaucracy or red tape and regulation exists where there is tedious road blocks but little danger. This is not the case here. What is suggested is potentially very dangerous. Self medicating when you have no understanding of the biochemistry and toxicity of the drug and no reliable diagnosis is risking failure to solve the problem at best, and at worse???
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I’m taking the OP as a bit of fun/satire, tongue in cheek.
Interesting points alluded to:
- it’s legal to self-treat, but not legal for other than a registered vet to prescribe or treat an animal
- sheep keepers frequently turn to the broad-spectrum wormer when there’s a sheep with a mucky bum
As to
The GPs are overworked and don't want to see us... we all know that.
That’s not my reading of it. The GPs would, in general, always rather see someone than not (although willl probably be very pleased if you tried the pharmacist first). Their receptionists, however, are sometimes a tad over-zealous in weeding out the non-urgent / trivial...
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For goodness sake don't be so stupid! Go to your doctor. You will not waste his/her time, in fact you may save our overstretched NHS money and time if you self medicate and become ill as aresult
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As a retired medic, I would definitely advocate seeking medical advice - 1). You are not sure you have worms 2). Dosage needs to be accurate to treat you correctly. You say you travel overseas for work - does your employment provide health insurance? Can you use this to seek help from a travel clinic, which may well be more equipped to deal with illnesses brought back from foreign climes? Please do not try treating yourself, in my experience this often does not end well!
1) Fairly sure I do/will/have but as I have continuous stomach problems whilst travelling it's also reasonable to assume they are periodically cleansed... if not, they're the only things not coming out. It's not unknown to live on coke for a fortnight to get through a trip. Alcohol gel to wipe the can as it's probably cleaner than a glass, enough sugar to keep you operational and the fizz prevents it being tampered with in locations where bottled water caps are often reconnected with superglue so you don't realise they've been refilled with tap water.
2) True, but I thought from memory the doses and chemicals were the same as for dogs... I'm not completely sure though. Fairly sure I could work it out based on the fact sheets available online if I really set my mind to it.
3) Yes, but that meant waiting until after the break rather than self medicating in the comfort of my own home and dealing with the problem in my time to be fully up and running by the time I returned to work. I'm back on the road next week so will wait until the next visit to one of our locations with onsite medics and then drop in there to pick something up; they'll pretty well prescribe anything to keep us working so I can't see it being a problem. Just didn't really want the symptoms of taking a worming tablet whilst travelling. You'd think by now I'd be used to the indignity of dumping my guts (one way or another) in a hotel toilet or a hole in the ground or whatever passes for a latrine wherever I am, but if I'm going to deliberately replicate the usual 'Delhi belly', it would be nice to do it in a bathroom that has seen Domestos since the millennium. I wonder if I really am the only one that packs a sleeping bag whenever I travel so that I always have clean sheets to sleep in regardless of the hotel :thinking:
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Yes, I felt the same way when I enquired about giving our tup the snip. £60 to be done at home seemed like a bargain!
I think you're probably on your own for that one... although the :dog: may have been happy if he got the 'spoils' afterwards...
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Treating worms in humans can be complicated. There's even a chance that making the bowel inhospitable to some species forces them to migrate out of the gut and end up in other organs.
Having worms may make you healthier, reducing asthema symptoms and allergies. GP for this, test before treatment, funny as it is.
Yes I watched a programme on that not so long ago about the doctor that went to Africa to get some infected cattle meat in order to swallow tapeworm eggs and grow them. It was very interesting. Nonetheless at the end of the experiment he took a wormer to cleanse!
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I’m taking the OP as a bit of fun/satire, tongue in cheek.
Interesting points alluded to:
- it’s legal to self-treat, but not legal for other than a registered vet to prescribe or treat an animal
- sheep keepers frequently turn to the broad-spectrum wormer when there’s a sheep with a mucky bum
As to
The GPs are overworked and don't want to see us... we all know that.
That’s not my reading of it. The GPs would, in general, always rather see someone than not (although willl probably be very pleased if you tried the pharmacist first). Their receptionists, however, are sometimes a tad over-zealous in weeding out the non-urgent / trivial...
My GP will probably turn green and lecture me about food hygiene, travel arrangements and all the rest of it. People who don't travel to these locations don't really understand there's more to it than not drinking the water. I remember how horrified the GP was when they asked what I had in my medical kit and I explained that along with the prescription that covered 'everything in this medical pack' there were the usual diuretics, laxatives and antidiarrheals, plasters, bandages, water purifiers there were strong painkillers, condoms (in case I wanted to go swimming and no that's not a euphemism), thread, needles and vodka and that yes, I had been given instructions on how to use all of them if needed and a list of all the hospitals I shouldn't use if I got shot which ran to 47 pages... I didn't understand why they didn't just give me the 2 pages of hospitals I should use.. but I guess that's why they gave me an emergency phone number, and phonetic words to use that said 'get me to the nearest beach', along with written instructions in several foreign languages in case the driver could read which apparently said 'get me to the nearest beach and phone this number then say where you are and who your passenger is' oh and of course the needle, thread and vodka!
The company medic won't ask too many questions and will just give me a prescription at a guess. It's probably not the first time he'll have been asked and I'm just surprised they're not included in the medical kit. I probably should have detoured via the medics on my way home last trip but just couldn't be bothered to add a couple of days to the trip.
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For goodness sake don't be so stupid! Go to your doctor. You will not waste his/her time, in fact you may save our overstretched NHS money and time if you self medicate and become ill as aresult
Nah, I'd be back on the road before any symptoms kicked in then it would be an international bupa case rather than the NHS... I don't see why the NHS should have to pay for this. I'll see the company medic at some point over the next few weeks and get sorted that way. Or I could take the sheep wormer with flukicide that Fleecewife mentioned... that might get me out of the next trip :fc: :innocent:
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You can have such fun in a long queue at the Pharmacist :roflanim:
Seriously, I would go and see your GP as just guessing what would be appropriate for what you could have, and guessing an appropriate dose for a human, are both pretty dodgy strategies. You won't be wasting her or his time - that's the folk who think they might have sprained a little finger last week, or who demand antibiotics for their colds. So don't be a tough guy, just do it properly and get along to the surgery.
It sounds like you have a very mysterious job. I bet there are lots of tales you could tell :eyelashes:
I could tell you all about it, but then I'd have to kill you! "The names Bond; Basildon Bond; some people say I'm a card!" ;)
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Internationalnumpty what are you doing round the world? what is your connection to smallholding?
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Backinwellies - He's an International Man of Numptiniess. It's best not to ask specfics - loose lips (and possibly also bowels?) sink ships and all that ;D .
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Still think it’s a wind-up.
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I'm sure my bithday was just last week - we haven't jumped to April 1st have we? :innocent:
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Still think it’s a wind-up.
A non-smallholding new member and :poo: :stir: ?
Perhaps we should lock this?
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Still think it’s a wind-up.
And no other posts under his profile, yes lock it, it's stupid.
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Hmm, my boss has mentioned getting wormer for himself from his GP without any issue....honestly!
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Still think it’s a wind-up.
And no other posts under his profile, yes lock it, it's stupid.
I don't think it's a wind up. :thinking:
Because it's outside your realm of experience or comfort zone doesn't make it fantasy. I can feel the OP's frustration when actually seeking help and constantly coming up against a brick wall. I have encountered similar ignorance when consulting my doctor about a sheep acquired illness and actually being told to ask my vet about treatment because the doctor didn't have the knowledge and couldn't be bothered to find out!
Not all health professionals know everything :idea: That's why I said that a well researched individual is more likely to find the answer than a poorly motivated professional.
All the information is there on the internet if you bother to spend the time and I'm sure IN is just as capable of looking it up as anyone else. He/she doesn't sound like a complete moron, so should be credited with enough commonsense not to do anything stupid.
By the way IN - I too read that the dog dose for such as Panacur is suitable for humans also. But DO get it verified by a doctor (who will have read the same article) or it is most likely have dire consequences. :cold: :poo:
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I don't think it's a wind up. :thinking:
Because it's outside your realm of experience or comfort zone doesn't make it fantasy.
Au contraire, I’ve worked in a fair few far flung places myself in my younger days and have many stories to tell, some of them relating to hygiene (or lack of) and having the squits overseas where the loos are holes in the floor (and I’ve never been able to squat :/)
I also studied Comparative Pathology as part of my degree in Biology, so am aware through that of some of the more exotic pests and parasites that might affect an international traveller.
With the litigious society we have today, most employers sending staff overseas are scrupulous about medical care, providing medicals, regular health checks, medical insurance and the like. So it rings very untrue that such a person would feel the need to trust in a UK-based pharmacist’s knowledge of his or her likely parasitic load and the treatment for it.
And as to the allusion to Basildon Bond or other writing papers, anyone who had actually done any even very mundane classified work would not mention or allude to that.
So, I maintain, it’s a wind up, and I’d lock the thread.
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Internationalnumpty what are you doing round the world? what is your connection to smallholding?
Working to pay the mortgage on a little smallholding I call home...
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Still think it’s a wind-up.
If only. In my dreams I win the Euromillions, can give up the travel and retire to be a full time smallholder...
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Still think it’s a wind-up.
A non-smallholding new member and :poo: :stir: ?
Perhaps we should lock this?
What gave you the impression I'm not a smallholder? The reason I'm a new member is I've only just been introduced to the site by a friend I've been staying with for a couple of days. I'm in deep :poo: at the moment as I just erroneously posted from their account when I logged in and forgot to switch to my account before responding... although I've now deleted those posts and responded from my own.
Why do you say I'm stirring the :poo:? Bit of an unfriendly attitude to a new member there Fleecewife. If I'm really not welcome then just say so and I won't bother coming back!
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Still think it’s a wind-up.
And no other posts under his profile, yes lock it, it's stupid.
I don't think it's a wind up. :thinking:
Because it's outside your realm of experience or comfort zone doesn't make it fantasy. I can feel the OP's frustration when actually seeking help and constantly coming up against a brick wall. I have encountered similar ignorance when consulting my doctor about a sheep acquired illness and actually being told to ask my vet about treatment because the doctor didn't have the knowledge and couldn't be bothered to find out!
Not all health professionals know everything :idea: That's why I said that a well researched individual is more likely to find the answer than a poorly motivated professional.
All the information is there on the internet if you bother to spend the time and I'm sure IN is just as capable of looking it up as anyone else. He/she doesn't sound like a complete moron, so should be credited with enough commonsense not to do anything stupid.
By the way IN - I too read that the dog dose for such as Panacur is suitable for humans also. But DO get it verified by a doctor (who will have read the same article) or it is most likely have dire consequences. :cold: :poo:
Thanks Landroverroy. Indeed all the medications I mentioned originally are used to treat humans for worms in various parts of the world. Whether they're all licensed here is a different question and I know from previous experience that my GP often turns green when I go to see them... even the company medic gets a run for his money at the routine annual medicals when asking about the usual 'how much alcohol; tobacco; drugs' etc... Given that in some locations recreational drugs are legal, but still banned by company policy and that they have to be careful how they test because some drugs can leave traces for 6 weeks when you've only been at work for 4 of them means they don't always get an easy run. However, even the medic did a double take when I asked if Dectomax needle sticks constituted 'recreational abuse of drugs'. Having failed my previous drugs test for drinking too much water (yes, you read that right) because I was pulled in for a test just after I'd emptied my bladder and didn't want to be stuck there for another 7 hours so basically drained the water barrel to get it over and done with I think he had to go research what Dectomax was. Clearly I didn't get a big enough dose from the needle stick to deal with the worms... but I'm wondering how much is left in the bottle at this point!
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I don't think it's a wind up. :thinking:
Because it's outside your realm of experience or comfort zone doesn't make it fantasy.
Au contraire, I’ve worked in a fair few far flung places myself in my younger days and have many stories to tell, some of them relating to hygiene (or lack of) and having the squits overseas where the loos are holes in the floor (and I’ve never been able to squat :/)
I also studied Comparative Pathology as part of my degree in Biology, so am aware through that of some of the more exotic pests and parasites that might affect an international traveller.
With the litigious society we have today, most employers sending staff overseas are scrupulous about medical care, providing medicals, regular health checks, medical insurance and the like. So it rings very untrue that such a person would feel the need to trust in a UK-based pharmacist’s knowledge of his or her likely parasitic load and the treatment for it.
And as to the allusion to Basildon Bond or other writing papers, anyone who had actually done any even very mundane classified work would not mention or allude to that.
So, I maintain, it’s a wind up, and I’d lock the thread.
My choice to talk to the pharmacist on one of the odd occasions when I'm home for a reasonable time period was driven by the fact that my last 2 trips were to locations where my company didn't have a medical base on site. I didn't want to have another trip to a location where the medics were to delay coming home and I'd have preferred to deal with it before I'm back on the road.
The Basildon Bond comment was meant to be humour, but clearly that's a bit dry for some people on this site. What makes you think my work is classified? Just because I work internationally in mostly inhospitable locations doesn't make me a spy although the post to which I was responding was clearly alluding to that possibility - hence my attempt at humour.
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Well, if it’s not a wind up, I hope the company medics get you sorted out.
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Bonkers, the pair of you! ;D
Do please hang around though, Numpty. I've been the only one on here for ages, and it gets kinda lonely! :roflanim:
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Would it be too much to ask that those of you that have been so incorrect in your judgements, and so needlessly unwelcome in your treatment of a genuine newcomer, actually apologised? :innocent: :sunshine:
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All's well that ends well then. :thumbsup: