The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: The.Grange on July 27, 2010, 07:52:18 pm
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Is it me?? I cannot see a link or even a web address,
regards
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must be one of those secret societies !!! Funny handshake brigade ::) ;D ;D
cheers
Russ
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Is that the same Little Blue on there that's on here?
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I would think so judging by reading her post!
Beth
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:oFunny handshake? I don't remember doing one of those when I joined that forum!!! And it is certainly not a secret society now, is it!!
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It is for actual ::) smallholders and small farmers
LOL! That's me out then!!
Each to their own of course, but one of the things I like best about this forum is that nobody's ever looked down their nose at us for the fact that our smallholding currently consists only of a quartet of chickens, and one 3mx2m raised bed!! Sure, we have grand plans for the future, but hanging around here has had a big influence in how those plans have formed, and has encouraged us that it might just be possible to make this work in the future. So, maybe I should just save link for later then eh? ;-)
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Womble, there is nothing wrong with starting small ......some people go all out, buy a big place, lots of animals, etc. etc. then it all goes wrong for some reason. Seen it happen time and time again.
This forum is for SMALLholders after all.
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Womble, there is nothing wrong with starting small ......some people go all out, buy a big place, lots of animals, etc. etc. then it all goes wrong for some reason. Seen it happen time and time again.
This forum is for SMALLholders after all.
I've said it before and I'll say it again no doubt, smallholding is a state of mind not an area of ground
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I spent my life farming and just because I now dabble in animals dosnt mean I have less intention or ambition.
how to alianate your self in one easy lesson ::)
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It is for actual ::) smallholders and small farmers
LOL! That's me out then!!
Each to their own of course, but one of the things I like best about this forum is that nobody's ever looked down their nose at us for the fact that our smallholding currently consists only of a quartet of chickens, and one 3mx2m raised bed!!
It's not meant as a negative statement - and i'm sorry if you read it that way.
It is a fact that many people making a living or trying to off their land don't have a meeting place to arrange help with other people in the same boat, its difficult to organise a load share of spuds or collection point, machinary share when the forum is swamped with well meaning folk and busy small farm farmers don't have much time to trawl through pages of chatter, there are several other forums such as TAS which service that, this forum is to service a differing need - its not meant to be exclusive its just meant to do as it says on the tin :farmer:
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The forum says:
"A forum for folk in the Midlands and North of likeminded people, who want to get back to nature by growing their own food, raising their own meat, making their own, making do and mend, exploring their crafting abilities and putting the land back into do i"
(I have mis-copied, that's how it ends)
The.Grange, I think it was the actual that caused concern.
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The forum says:
"A forum for folk in the Midlands and North of like-minded people, who want to get back to nature by growing their own food, raising their own meat, making their own, making do and mend, exploring their crafting abilities and putting the land back into do i"
(I have mis-copied, that's how it ends)
The.Grange, I think it was the actual that caused concern.
i get where the inferred slight comes from SteveMo - but I can't pander to every possible interpretation of whats written, the reader will read into whats written anyway they feel on thatparticular day ;)
I agree that the word 'ACTUAL' is the problem. That is NOT what it says on the tin - it is yourself Grange that has taken that interpretation. Reading the quote it appears they have the same criteria as ourselves on this forum. Like-minded people, getting back to nature, no mention of smallholding being an area of half an acre, 25 acres, or just a back garden - you can grow vegetables on a balcony in a flat - as I said it is a state of mind. We do what we can to keep the environment safe, to eat well, to eat locally, and to know what we eat, and what is being fed to what we eat..
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I agree that the word 'ACTUAL' is the problem. That is NOT what it says on the tin - it is yourself Grange that has taken that interpretation. Reading the quote it appears they have the same criteria as ourselves on this forum. Like-minded people, getting back to nature, no mention of smallholding being an area of half an acre, 25 acres, or just a back garden - you can grow vegetables on a balcony in a flat - as I said it is a state of mind. We do what we can to keep the environment safe, to eat well, to eat locally, and to know what we eat, and what is being fed to what we eat..
erm is that a personal attack?
I think you'll find as the forum is something I have close links with I know what and who its aimed at - the banner at the top of the forum is trying to be inclusive to those who are making a living off a small amount of land be that a couple of acres or 70.
It is not aimed at those keeping a few chickens or the odd bit of livestock whatever reasons - thats why I said ACTUAL - as in those actually working their land as a predominant part of their day and income.
Now if you cna take offence at the word actual thatreally is an issue you must look to yourself and if you are that touchy then the forum really isnt the place for you. And after this - TAS is not the place for me either.... friendly forum ... if your face fits obviously
oh and just for the record - i did apologise IF the person had taken offence by the words used - obviously YOU chose to ignore that fact and make a personal attack...nice aren't you.
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No, it wasn't a personal attack, merely an observation. I didn't realise you were personally involved in that forum and that you had aims of separating people who are landowners from those of us who only have large gardens - my apologies for not interpreting the information correctly. Perhaps you are right, your forum is not for me as I only have an acre, I only grow vegetables and fruit for myself, I only have ducks and chickens as I live too close to the village for their safety. Thank you for clarifying the matter, and I wish you the best of good fortune with your forum. ;D
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Hi,
The forum is a joint venture between a couple of others and me. It came about because we’ve found it difficult to find a forum that serves our particular needs. Which are to network and form working co-op’s esque style (for want of a better description :D) links with those producing predominant amounts of their annual income off their land, and who struggle to get the machinery they need or investment.
Now if that’s you and you have a 3’ balcony box, hats off to you and can you tell me your secret?? ::D
The ‘actual’ The.Grange used was because she wanted to emphasise the difference between those amongst us who keep a few chickens and a weaner for our own use, who probably do this to supplement their income, to those amongst us who spend the vast majority of their working day on their land and it forms a large part of their income if not all, but who are not commercial or have a huge turnover so struggle to get an extra pair of hands, be it links to those hands or affording them.
I hope that goes some way to explaining why the ‘actual’ was important to us and not meant to be exclusive to others.
The forum description has been modified so as anyone stumbling across it by chance won’t get the wrong end of the stick.
Cheers
Piggybank
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Heehee! You've actually put 'actually' in your elevator pitch. Sorry, I shouldn't giggle. I'm a bit disappointed really because I thought it would be great to have a 'local' forum. Sadly, I don't meet all the criteria.
I do think it's sad that the above debate has arisen, especially when you have just launched the forum. But by the stance you have taken and the capital letters you have used in the forum introduction you may have wiped out a lot of visitors who may be 'in-betweenies' or may be growing into the group you describe and who may have had much to offer your forum.
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and the link is.......................??????????? :D
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OP fogot it, put it on, then removed his/her post.
It's here:
http://fromfieldtofork.myfastforum.org/index.ph
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Peace, people.
The use of the word "actual" may appear misjudged since it has lead to some misinterpretation - it is one of the drawbacks of the written word.
I can't see the forum developed by The.Grange and piggybank, but from piggybank's post it seems like a really good idea - a sort of skill share, locally based. This hasn't been an issue for us at Longcarse as it was basically a big garden, but it will be more of an issue at Dalmore, which we'll be running more like a business.
For example, one of my sheep bugbears is the size of wormer / fly spray / vaccines - the smallest Heptavac is 25 doses, to be used within 10 hours of opening. I have 6 sheep - it would be great to be able link with local people to share these things. I had hoped CSSA might do that but it hasn't yet.
Dan and I aren't precious about this - the more folk that support local food growing, whatever size and aspirations, are OK by us.
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Peace :wave:
I liked the idea of it too. As you say, linking with local people, and it is in my area.
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Yup, peace from me too :wave: I wasn't casting nasturtiums, just felt exclusivity and inclusivity weren't the best of ideas when all of us are of a like mind. Good luck to them, and to any aspiring smallholders who might be able to join their forum even though they don't yet qualify. ACTUALLY ;) I'm not wholly convinced if they'll get much more/better advice/help than they would on here, except if it's local. If there was something similar here and I felt I might be able to get somewhere bigger than I have now I might just join it. It's a pity The Grange felt she couldn't stay.
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Well Im kinda surprised at this thread, I thought it peace and harmony all round, well there you go!!!!
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Is that the same Little Blue on there that's on here?
yes it is.... hello.
the forum you're all talking about is kind of "a local site, for local people" to paraphrase the heroes of Royston Vassey, to network/swap/share in a Midlands community.
whats wrong with that??!!
be nice people, theres a whole real world out there!!
:)
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i am quite upset by this thread..... i invited the grange to join tas as we were lovely friendly people.
NOT LIKE ALL THOSE OTHER FORUMS!!!!
the written word is so easily misinterprited, and it seems in this case we have frightened off a very helpful, knowledgable person, who set up a new forum to help us local folk..... :( :(
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I'll second that Smiffy,
It all seems abit daft to me.
(although I'm not too sure of the "ethics" of using somebody elses forum to promote your own! Well said Rosemary, about not being precious!)
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Perhaps someone who knows The Grange could pm her and ask her to come back ?????? :) :) :)
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I do think it is a good idea, for local co-op etc. However, I do agree the wording on the forum could put some people off.
Anyone had a chance to speak to The.Grange?
Beth
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I have met the lady in question (The Grange) when she came to collect some ex battery hens from me last week.
She came across as a nice person, who was very interested in smallholding in general. It is a shame she felt she had to leave, when she had hardly posted.
Now, what was I sayinig only the only day about TAS not being like other forums?
Well, I ain't leaving, I like it here :D
I have joined the other forum, because I thought being local to me, it was a good idea. When you only have a few acres of land, its hard sometimes to get hay making equipment etc. or chain harrows. This way, maybe we can help each other out doing different things. And things like buying in bulk. Someone local to share a wagon load of straw maybe, is a bonus.
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I have joined the other forum, because I thought being local to me, it was a good idea. When you only have a few acres of land, its hard sometimes to get hay making equipment etc. or chain harrows. This way, maybe we can help each other out doing different things. And things like buying in bulk. Someone local to share a wagon load of straw maybe, is a bonus.
And I agree, all that is great. But, if you dis-encourage some people from joining, you may be shutting yourself off from opportunities. I know how we used to struggle to get someone to cut and bale our hay for us, and maybe a forum like that would have helped. Nowadays- I just wish we had enough land to get some hay made!
Beth
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And I wish we had the weather to make hay - done nothing but rain this past week or so. And here is us with a hosepipe ban, and empty reservoirs!!
Yes, I see what you are saying, Beth. I am sure The Grange did not mean to dis-courage people from joining. :D
Probably I will not be eligible to be on there once we move, as we will more than likely be out of the area, but never mind.
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What about a sub group on here, a bit like the sausage recipe theme on recipes? Then people who live close enough could get together to buy a giant wormer which can be split, etc. etc.
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Grange did indeed ask Dan for permission to post on TAS. He was happy for that to happen as there is no conflict (remember, TAS is my business now!!).
I will PM her.
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Grange did indeed ask Dan for permission to post on TAS. He was happy for that to happen as there is no conflict (remember, TAS is my business now!!).
I will PM her.
Please let her know I was not criticising her at all. Beth has probably put what I think into words better than I did, so I apologise if I did not make myself clear. It just seemed the forum was elitist in my eyes but I realise now that was not the intention. It seems a good forum for local people if they have more than an acre.
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Not read all the posts but noted that :-
We may mean something in our heads and for that moment then write what we feel but it may well be read in a totally different light, just because we think things are not offensive, it dose not mean that they aren't.
I spent so many years doing anti oppressive practice stuff at college then Uni and we (the whole class) would spend hours if not days changing words in things to make them inclusive and non offensive and quite frankly, all it taught me is, that will never be the case, we all have different ideals and want different things so why should we not look for things such as forums, that suit us even if we are a minority....I am excluded from disabled, male transsexual trainspotters forums as I do not like collecting numbers even though I like men :o
Finlay, I have learnt that we can offend people all over the world with the wrong words so we either keep it lite and rosy ;) or occasionally offend...you decide ???
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That was well put Sandy. Hopefully The Grange will make a comeback after Rosemary has made contact. :)
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My OH always makes me chuckle, he stairs at people, men or women either on really nice bikes (keen cyclist) or with dogs (keen on dogs of any description) BUT, if someone stairs at him he gets offended...see what I mean!!!!
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I have joined the other site because I am in the midlands and I guess with making the soap business out of my goats milk and selling the amount of smallholding produce we do, it is quite a chunk of our income (hubby still remains main earner but even that is farm related)
the written word can be misconstrued so easily, having run a forum for women with postnatal depression for some years I can recall many instances where offence was taken when perhaps it need not have been or as Sandy has said, where offence should have been taken but was not!
Its a shame, the other forum seems a good idea for the midlands of England where we have very little in the way of smallholding groups and the members are friendly as they are here too - but I will still be coming here too because I've made some lovely cyber friends and had some good laughs along the way (very welcome laughs I must add after some very gruelling days with my animals!)
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Oh 'eck! I hadn't meant to start anything!
I freely admit that a few chickens and a raised bed doesn't exactly make me a smallholder, and thus I accept I'm not part of this new forum's target audience. However, that doesn't mean I was in the slightest bit offended by the OP, more just amused. Sorry if I put the :cat: among the :&> s (sorry, there's no pigeon smiley!).
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Who's going to verify whether or not a prospective member meets the criteria? I claim to have a 36 acres and a flock of 50 shetland sheep of various shades, but I could be an inmate in a secure mental hospital with far to much time on my hands. Thats the whole point of the internet. There is no place for eliteism on the internet and the excuse that it saves them trawling through the idle chit chat is nonsense.
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And another thing! The proportion of my income and time accounted for by my smallholding is nobody else's business. My sheep make a profit but I have expensive tastes and therefore work full-time. That I am able to do this demonstrates that my farm is well set up and efficient. Whats the oppossite of an actual smallholder? a virtual small holder. That would only really describe someone who plays farmville.
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Just to clarify why the forum came about!!!!
I was talking to the grange, on the phone and said that i use many forums, but everyone is so far away... on tas a lot of people are in scotland, on downsizer many are in the south or wales...everyone on river cottage is miles from me ;D
I said it would be really nice if we had a local forum, so we can share thing, also when i look in the trading posts on various forums everything i want to but is miles away...not that that stops me, i went to deveon and west wales for chickens.
I live in yorkshire, not a million miles from derbyshire where the grange lives....
an hour later i got an email from the grange saying, 'your wish is my command' with a link to the new forum
Now she set that up in less than an hour, i dont think thye grange considered the banner to be offensive...
then to advertise the new forum the grange contacted the owners of various sites.
No one ever said if you have a few chickens you cant join, or if you have less than an acre...
Its about sharing equiptment, labour etc
and helping local people in our local area... I think this is way out of hand, it doesnt stop people being a member of tas, or any other forum, but it is a support network for all us fools who are trying to eak a living off the land.
I am greatful the grange put herself out to form this forum foer me and i am sorry that some people are taking umbridge
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Why could TAS not have been contacted, Just like topics or catogories They could have added regoins, Then would be no need for new forums. Im not bothered by any of this, everyone here is real freindly and help full and thats good enough for me
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I can't get hold of the grange as she's on as a guest not a member so, smiffy, if you are in contact, please tell her to look again and we can allkiss and make up!! :wave:
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;) i have just sent her a message
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Maybe the idea of a local section is not a bad one actually - how about it - we have something similar on a gun-dog forum I frequent - we have a sub forum for each HPR breed.
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thanx Annie, see im not completely blonde, just bald lol
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The Grange has just told me she will not be coming back on here. Thats a shame.
I am sure we all want to wish her well with her new forum.
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its all rather sad
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Im sorry to have to say it but I think you have been most unfair to a person who was trying to make a forum for smallholders in a specific area. :( >:(
If this is the attitude towards any new people who dont use the language YOU think is right here then we are going to be sadly isolated and exclusive. >:(
I, for one, would have loved to have seen that website and all the help it could contain as being a new smallholder in the area specified I need all the help I can get.
Next year I will need different boars to use for my pedigree pigs and a tup or two for my sheep and that website would have helped me locate those. This year I will have so many apples that I wont use them all but I could have swopped them for something I needed!!! I need some hay for my animals in the winter, that site may have helped.
Im now worried that this forum is getting to have a small clique of people who think they run this forum and who think their opinions are the ONLY opinions that count and they have opinions on things that they have no hands on experience about, and when confronted they back down!!!
Please guys I love this forum and I dont want to see it go downhill from the welcoming place it has been but we must, must, must welcome all comers untill such times as they prove to be unstable.
Jackie :'( :(
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The previous link posted to that website is now not working so if someone could please send me the link I would be very grateful. :)
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Try this one
http://fromfieldtofork.myfastforum.org
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Jackie, Dan and I run the forum. If you're concerned about the behaviour of any member please let Dan or I know. We have always tried to preserve and encourage a friendly attitude to everyone and we'll continue to do so. As I posted earlier, the.grange had already cleared the post about the other forum with Dan but at the end of the day, it's very difficult to police every post and try to anticipate misinterpretations.
On the whole, I still think most of our members are genuinely supportive of other members, regardless of their acreage.
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Hi everybody,
been following this for the past couple of days and i think now the whole post should just be removed, its gone far enough and obviously people have been offended by some comments which i believe is not the aim of this forum and although i am a relatively new member i have not seen a topic similar to this before. Dan perhaps you should just delete this whol board and everyone can move on.
I think it i s a terrible shame that The Grange feels she cannot return, as everybody seems to be offering an olive branch and leave this in the past. perhaps we can bombard her with emails and say the come back all have an 'online' cup of tea and move forward.
I think we are all in agreement that local groups all knowing who each other is to share equipment or has Jackie has said for different stud boars for her stock, i am in Buckinghamshire and if Langdon (in Scotalnd) or JulieS(in Cornwall) had something i needed then perhaps it is a little far, but the only one i know who is close-ish in Plumseverywhere (midlands), so there is a good reason for these local boards to maybe feature on here.
From what i have experienced as a 100% novice at this pig-rearing game (and yes i only do it for a hobby and it forms no part whatsoever in my income) this website and its members have all been fantastic, friendly and only to willing to help. I really feel this topic has run its course and is 'black cloud' amongst all the other topics and really should 'tap it on the head' now.
WP
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Sorry WP hope you look better than I feel Hope the Princessess are well and off out I am more or less confined to the house More later
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feeling better Wiz, you? thought i had noticed that you hadnt been on for a couple of days??
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Goodness, I don't believe I have ever experienced such a thread on TAS!
I agree that the actual and the roll of the eyes made it easy to misinterpret the statement ... such are the joys of the internet!
By the same token, I'd love to be put in touch with people local to me ... I know there are a few members in Cornwall but I don't think there are many of us?! ;D
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I thought the members map was a great idea, and that it was set up so members to find each other locally. But not many people seem to use it. I can't see any down sides and it would be a great help, and might have avoided this whole issue. After all you don't need to put your exact location if you are concerned about security, you could still put a pin close enough so that others in the area would know roughly where you are then get in touch privately. The idea of sub forums for areas would help too, I think. Perhaps WP is right about deleting this thread but I would be more inclined to lock it, so that it serves as a reminder to us all that the written word is not always the same as the spoken word, even with smileys. Perhaps if The Grange could be persuaded to come on and just look through this thread she would see there was no malice or cliquieness involved. If she still feels too sensitive to do so then all I can say is I am sorry it has turned out this way, because I feel life is too short for such sadness.
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Is the Grange the administrator on her forum? coz if that is the case i will email her as well. I think whatever has happened we are all similar people and all have a common interest being smallholders, whether small like me who is going to have 10 pigs once a year as a hobby or someone who is not necessarily bigger but this is their employment.
I can only state what a nice time i am having on this forum talkling to like minded people who have held my hand all the way through my 'silly/beginners' questions about starting to be self sufficient.
I agree Doganjo that perhaps its time to put this one to bed, and yes a members map sounds great, i mean you cab even just put the county as a location which i think would be great, not just on the co-operative side, but for me being such a small fish with big fish aspirations i would love to meet up with other members either at shows/farm sales/livestock markets and just enjoy a cup of tea and maybe even a cake...................... :wave:
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Especially the cake! I'm in north Lincolnshire if anybody is interested.
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yum yum - Orange or lemon cake are my favourites all deliveries to Winslow Buckinghamshire
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Thank you HM I have now signed up. :)
Rosemary thank you for the reasurance. In the spirit of friendliness I wont say who I think can/may/does sometimes cause problems. Its not my place to do so either :)
Im hoping that we all use this thread as a learning curve to make future posters/friends more welcome and as a warning about not thinking about how our words can affect others before we post. :)
I would love to meet more people from here.
When Im settled Ill try and get a date etc for us Lincs, Derby, Notts, and Yorks (list is not inclusive they are just the nearest to me) people to meet up for lunch somewhere, or even coffee and cake.
I will be having an 'open day' when the kennels are up and running so everyone is welcome to come to that anyway. ;)
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Especially the cake! I'm in north Lincolnshire if anybody is interested.
You're pin isn't on the map though, Sheila............... ;) ;D
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............ but I could be an inmate in a secure mental hospital with far to much time on my hands.
Darn! My cover has been blown!! ;D
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But you're on the map so I can find you ;) ;D ;D ;D
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I cant believe anyone is even posting in here now, to this newbie I'm rather taken back with it all. However, The use of lol at the end of the subject line, no matter what words are used anywhere else, within the thread. Has me thinking, When writing, There was a laugh at Tas at the end, Ive found this place nothing but helpfull, informative and very friendly. I wont post anymore in here, and just forget all about it. Think its time. And lets get back to the good issues, What we are all doing on our land, big and small.
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Especially the cake! I'm in north Lincolnshire if anybody is interested.
i am in north lincs too/ well the farm is i live in s yorks ;D