The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Marketplace => Topic started by: ellisr on July 23, 2010, 08:39:17 am
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I have 4 cockerals that need new homes due to a neighbour trying to get me to move and reporting them to the council, but everyone else in the hamlets being fine to keep cockerals.
1 x Buff Orp
2 x Mottled orps
1 x cream crested
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Sorry for your difficulty. What could the council do if you don't move them on?
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They have already started proceeding to take me to court
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Sorry to hear about your bother with the neighbour. I have 8 cockerels of various breeds around the place, and some of the young silkies are turning into boys too. Bearing in mind we were there before two of the neighbours, because they converted farm barns, there is also two houses next to the field. We live down the farm track!!!
No one has ever said anything, or reported me, although I was ready for it happening. Except a visitor, who one morning enquired as to how many roosters I had. My reply .....3. Well, he was a townie, and would not know a cockerel from a hen.
Are they in a field, or your garden? I would say if its a smallholding and a field, there is not much anyone can do surely? A residential area, probably yes, if there are enough complaints.
When you say the neighbour is trying to get you to move - why exactly??
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We live in a rented smallholding and he thinks that it should only be for horses as there is an old stable block that you can't get a horse into.
I have hid the pigs and he can frequently be heard complaining about the cockerals when actual in is a chicken laying an egg in the barn. There are another 6 cockerals in the hamlet and no complaints have been made against any except mine.
he came to the door aout 6 months ago and said to my face that I should be moving on as I had been here 6 months (bearing in mind this guy is a townie and only lived here 4 weeks before me), but in the eyes of the law that is irrelevant and because he has complained they have to act. I was asked to move them further up so I did and still that didn't satisfy the neighbour.
When I go up the fields to see to any of the animals he stands at the upstairs window watching me it is creepy, his wife tried complaining to the estate agent about the garden saying it wasn't tended, it only happened that at that time I was standing in the garden with the landlady who was comenting on how nice we had it.
So I don't want to have to cull these boys as they are good breeding birds and just want to find homes for them before the end of next week.
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What the heck has it got to do with the neighbour how long you should be living there for? Did he do it with the previous tenants? And the same about your garden, none of his business.
When you rented the smallholding, are there are rules saying you cannot keep pigs, hens etc? If not, why hide your pigs - they are entitled to be there!! I take it the neighbour lives very close? If the landlady has no problem with what you keep on the land, thats fine.
I think its terrible that you feel so intimidated by this person. You will be getting no enjoyment from having your smallholding will you?
I would rehome the cockerels, and then tell him you are renting the place, and can keep what you want in terms of livestock.
Just had a thought - is he making trouble, so that he himself can have the smallholding?
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Roxy hunni he was only here a few weeks before me so the last tenants had left and the property was empty. I had a sneaky look over his fence whilst fixing the roof on the field shelter and it is a building site, his house was built on land that previously was a smallholding.
I now spend very little time outside as he watches and sits behind the fence listening even my friend has taken her horses away from the field as he was watching her every time she crossed the field. I have public footpath gates that have been left open recently so that the lambs get into the barley field, I came in from work one night and the field gates were all standing open sheep and horse wandering merrily. The goose pen and chicken pens have been opened and stock let out so I have had to padlock everything.
I actually have grazing rights with the property which covers the home paddock and fields but the coucil say this doesn't matter if they are considered a nuisance by making noise.
He even made a comment one day about the new lambs baaa'ing for there mums
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Well, he sounds to have a problem, and nothing better to do, if he is watching your every move. If he does not like livestock, he should not live where there are fields. As far as I can see, its only the cockerels he can object to, other livestock can make noise, smells etc......like I said, if he don't like it, then he can move (you can live in hope, eh?)
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I definately live in hope
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just wanted to say its such a shame your having neighbour trouble.... why do people live in rural places then complain?!
hope you find good homes for your boys
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Fight fire with fire, complain and complain and complain about him. Find a big beefy friend, preferably with a motor bike to sit outside his fence and make him feel intimidated. Get some binoculars (even child plastic ones) and stand and look directly at him watching you. Make sure he sees you taking notes. Then get on to the council and give it your best. Tell them his holding is a building site, encouraging vermin etc. etc. Dont be intimidated. And since when were horses classed as farm (smallholding) animals?
Rant over sorry]
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Rant away hun I could scream as my breeding of chickens has totally gone down the drain I must have lost about £10k in chick sale this year which is a huge part of my income, and strangely 2 cockerals just dropped dead and my old kind gander was poisoned.
I do fear what will happen to my animals sometimes but have a good neighbour otherside that does watch and help.
The naughty neighbours wife even tried to gossip about me at a coffee morning and tel people I was having an affair until someone who knows me pointed out that the guy she was on about was my best friend and gay. Honest some people need a hobby.
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Honest some people need a hobby.
your neighbours have ..... watching and talking about you!!!
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Yeah but that isn't a nice hobby and has reduced me to tears on some occasions
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Ellisr, I'm shocked at your story and it truly upsets and annoys me to hear people that have these issues! Our next door neighbours complain about cows mooing (not mine - I havent quite ventured into Bovine yet) to which my reply was 'you live in the countryside, miles from anywhere, surrounded by fields. What did you expect??????' I suspect we'll have issues once my lads start a-crowing!
Where abouts are you? I can always come around and stare at him if you like! If you haven't already done so, start documenting everything and report him for harrassment. Get your friend who kept horses to back you up. I know there's no law against staring at people but I find this just creepy. Like I say, power to the people, well, smallholder - I'll more than happy help out if you're near to me.
P.S. I could probably arrange for a tank to get conveniently 'lost' and get it parked outside his house for a bit. They have a nasty habit of breaking down, and what with the cuts in defence it could be a while before it was fixed. Give him something else to stare at!
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What an absolute A hole this guy sounds!
I think you should write down everything that you catch him at (date & time) and everything you suspect is him & then you may be able to turn the tables on the horrible man. :chook:
And remember: Keep smiling - it confuses the ba-tards!
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I smile in front of him but not when I come in.
Anyway I need homes for my boys before the court date and even more importantly anything happens to them
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Reading all this I just think "oh but for the grace of god" call ducks going ballistic in the morning, cockerel wanting out, pygmy goats in season and giving birth (not the quitest things) mad collies that bark at anything the goats do!!! and the list goes on - I really sympathize with you why can't people just mind their own business - I guess there are just people out there who have to complain wether its a cockerel or a planning application or the weather..........don't know what to say to help but I do wish you luck ..........thinking voodoo possibly!!
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I know there's no law against staring at people
I'm not so sure - what about the laws of stalking! That's exactly what it is. You must do as is suggested - make it obvious you have a notebook and are taking notes about him and his family. Look over the wall at his ground, and write things down.
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He has 6 foot fencing all around his 'garden' so I can't look over, I can hear him walking up and down the fence line at the front as he has a gravel drive and out the back I can sometimes hear him rubbing against the fence. i obviously see him at his upstairs window looking into my garden, paddock and fields. i have found myself no longer wearing shorts when it is hot but I wear cargo pants instead.
There was one day I was riding my horse in the field and he was watching, he then banged his window closed which made Blue bolt across the field and I came off, it is madness but the police say they can't do anything as it is just a guy looking out of his window over farmland.
Still need to find homes for the boys
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Take a photo of him every time you see him looking out the window! Especially with flash. You need to defend yourself by harassing him too.
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Did you get letters from the council, or a visit, asking you to get rid of your cockerels? And then a court order after that? Surely you can keep one cockerel on a smallholding? I know a lot of people in residential areas with cockerels. They must be lucky and no one has complained. What I do not understand is why its just cockerels that they complain about. Dogs barking day and night, is surely as bad, loud music, etc. etc.......
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Me thinks someones trying to expand their property by making it vacant and avalible. May be he should be paid a visit ;D
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Yes Roxy we had 2 letters saying the cockerals were being investigated and a visit where we were advised to keep the cockerals in the coops until later (so I had to work part-time to accomodate this) and then a letter to say get rid of the cockerals and because they only gave me 2 weeks I now have a letter to say they are starting legal proceedings. I am thinking of fighting it by using the legal cover on my smallholders insurance but in reality what chance do I have and I have to think of the animals welfare as well.
I followed all of the requests from the neighbour and council and still this has happened.
STILL NEED HOMES FOR MY BEAUTIFUL BOYS
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Get some cctv cameras, the fake ones are very cheap now.point them at him .
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I have fake ones around the property and it has detered people from opening gates recently, but it actually illegal to point it into another property
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OK guys, enough talk, time for action - is anyone close enough to Ellisr to go and get her boys and give them a foster home in the meantime? Then get this chap sorted out. It sounds to me as if he has friends in the Council if they are pursuing to this extent. Perhaps someone higher up in the Council needs to be alerted to this victimisation - like your own Councillor, or even your MP?
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Honestly never thought of my MP, I have been through so much in the last 6 months I have lost my fight a bit, I am on the verge of selling the animals and moving on
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And let him get away with it? Not with us behind you you won't! ;) I'm in the process of fighting Network Rail and Transport Scotland for letting the coal freight companies run trains through the night 7 meters from my bedroom window - I'm not going to give that up I can tell you! Read all about it, and borrow some of my enthusiasm! http://www.facebook.com/pages/StopNightTrains/110706728967360
This is your home, your way of life - hold on to that! Your neighbour is acquisitive methinks! And devious! And a number of other adjectives I could use,
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there are laws regarding keeping such in other countries. As far as im aware there is no National Law about keeping chickens or cockerels in a residential area, unless it is a commercial enterprise.
However, there may be local bye-laws about keeping livestock, or there may be restrictive covenants on your house or land which govern the keeping of livestock. There is also the laws relating to "Nuisance" - whether from noise or other. have you been to consult Citizens advice?
Just a thought, have you tried housing the cockeral in at night and release in the morning? A well built block shed or such, or good dark sound proof area? just to show compromise.
I would start planting tall trees to obsure view and act as sound barrier.. i planted 15 laylandii 3 years ago and mulched with some lovely rabbit manure.. they have grown a serious amount and have covered a great area - excellent result ( i know there are restrictions on these trees- i was very sneaky and planted on the railway embankment ;)) )
I have the same problem with my next door neighbour ( the curtain twitcher) no matter what i do she is there watching and glaring. This week we had environmental health around checking, but they went away more than satisfied that everything was A1. she had a flea in her ear. she had complained that the stock was causing too many flies... but after investigation it was found it was caused but the food she throws out and that my yard and stock were more than over clean......
2 years ago she complained constantly that i should not have painted my house with dulux weather sheild 'white' as it was too bright and she didnt like the colour :-\ .. my trees are to wavey in the wind? My decked area of the garden was too large! My kids bounce their basket balls in the day time!!! the list goes on. Ive had ten years of this! I can empethise fully with your plight.
Fortunately for my sanity my house is near completion and will sell as soon as i can.
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I have grazing rights on my land so no covenant, the property has always been a smallholding and at one stage the landlord bred red setters (now that would have been noisy) The cockerals are locked in through the night and let out at about 9 am 4 days a week and at 6.30 the 3 days I have to work.
The irony is we live between a couple of RAF bases and they do helicopter manovers most days and about 4 nights out of 7. On night manovers they start at 10pm and go until about 3 and these guys fly very low over us
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I apologise for being blunt - it is my nature. But that is defeatist. If everyone took that attitude no-one would be allowed to do anything except the bullies! ::)
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My standard reply to people who come to live here from towns? "Oh they don't have cockerels crowing/ducks quacking/dogs barking then where you come from?" The usual reply is "No". "So", say I "Bugger off back to where you came from then, there are too many of you now down here, telling folk what they can and can't do."
It makes me mad, up-country people coming to live here then complaining about livestock too close to them, cow-s**t in the lanes, church bells ringing and "Oh, how cruel!Those poor little lambs being taken to slaughter(their meat being grown on trees of course!) we must do something to stop it"
GET BACK TO TOWNS AND CITIES, I SAY, AND LET US GET ON WITH OUR LIVES!!!!!!!!!
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This guy sounds an absolute arse. I would come and kick him up his for you if you was closer. I hate bullies & idiots who interfere in the lives of others. Are you a member of your local smallholder association? http://www.shasomerset.org.uk/ have a word with them & see if they know anyone who could help your plight. They might be able to help with your boys if nothing else. The local MP is a good idea.
You are allowed one free visit to a solicitor & I would phone around & find one that covers countryside issues & see what they have to say.
This arse must have a contact somewhere to be able to get so much through in a short space of time. Don't give up. Get the papers involved or maybe call some of the magazines like 'Country smallholding' or 'Smallholder' They would know who to contact for help.
I don't know if this was any use to you & I really wish you luck.
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Just read this thread and I can't believe what an A**e this man is! I wish you luck with your boys and hope you can find them a new home and good luck with sorting your problem out.x
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Here's what you do...
Get a lemonade bottle (glass), fill it with petrol and stick a rag in the top. Wipe it clean of all finger prints and, wearing gloves, deposit it on his doorstep in the dead of night.
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Here's what you do...
Get a lemonade bottle (glass), fill it with petrol and stick a rag in the top. Wipe it clean of all finger prints and, wearing gloves, deposit it on his doorstep in the dead of night.
Lit, I presume? :P
Seriously, people like him need to be taught what is important in life!
He isn't!
Hearing about this makes my blood boil. Unfortunately I cannot help but I surely would if I could. Good luck with your problem.
Ian
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That is awful really, he sounds like a right bully, I would be keeping a diary of events and getting ready to call the police if this kind of behavior carries on....good luck :)
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I'm near by and more than willing to help i.e. a few on the council that are all for rural life, hell they even stick up for people in council houses that want to keep poultry etc. I'm guessing your near Yeovil?
Failing that I can always have a bike ride with 30 like minded people and introduce ourselves ;D Seriously if you want assistance legally and sensibly give me a shout, I could look into his planning concents regards his building and fences :wave:
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The people on here are great :love:
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Looks like Cobra can help you. Maybe you should advise your neighbour you have a pet 'snake in the grass' ;) Go get him, Guys! >:( >:( >:(
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Your neighbour sounds very like a not very nice relative of ours. From that experience he will feed on any damage he can do to you, it will inflate his poor self image, so that he needs more and more, weak people are often like that. As the situation has gone beyond ignoring, and as his behaviour is making your life difficult, you have only two choices, give in and move or fight back figuratively not literally.
Start by being a damned nuiscance to the council, every thing he has done, every bit of rubbish, any possible complaint you can make, do so in writing. keep at it, if they have to follow up every complaint he makes then do unto him etc. only twice as much. Sorry for the local council caught in the middle of this, you want to remain where you live then do as suggested here and give as good and more than he does.
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Elisr, see you are in Somerset and seemingly just down the road. Let me know if you want those tanks to conveniently break down ;)
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Tanks breakdown would be good it would take his concentration off me for a while hehehe
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You have an PM and an e-mail. :bouquet:
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Thanks for the mail I have mailed you back ;D
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Hi I have been reading your post and I don't know if it will help but there is and Act (The Allotments Act 1950), it overrides covenants etc and has recently helped many, many people to keep poultry when they had previously been told they couldn't (even by councils!). Cockerels are then subject to a Noise complaint and the council should then make the necessary arrangements to take noise level recordings, I take it this hasn't been done. A compromise than then be met by using a darkened Cockerel Box etc.
People like your neighbour really get on my nerves, our in-laws have a farm and their neighbour regularly complain, my responseis if you don't like it GO AWAY!
Just for your information there is an excerpt from the Act below:-
The Allotments Act 1950, Chapter 31, Section 12 states that regardless of clauses in leases/ tenancies/ covenants/ contracts or agreements to the contrary, the occupier of any land can keep hens and rabbits on it, for their own use, so long as they set up and maintain adequate housing and so long as they make sure that the hens/rabbits don't become a nuisance or pose a threat to health.
(Navigate to the Office of Public Sector Information website (opsi.gov.uk) and search for Allotments Act 1950 to read the full text)
P.s - Are your Orpingtons Large Fowl or Bantams?. If they are Bantams I may be able to help.
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Sorry they are large fowl, I used to only breed large fowl obviously that has to stop now as you need a cockeral to do that.
The allotment act doesn't help in this case but thankyou for trying. I have grazing rights for the chickens but the boys are subject to the noise act. He is now watching the sheep and have had a visit from my neighbour who works for the RSPCA as they were reported as being neglected and in bad condition (3 have had flystrike and lost some wool around the back ends) She was more than pleased to report they were very healthy and needed no intervention as all step for there welfare had bee addressed and that they just looked a bit odd until the wool grows back.
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He's really taking the pee now! Why don't you ask him to offer a price for your property in exchange for not reporting him to the police for harassment
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How 'bout punching his lights out..............no shortage of volunteers I suspect!
Ian
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This might seem a little out there ... but have you tried inviting him round and perhaps offering him some produce... I found I was a very popular neighbour when there were surplus eggs lol .. he may be jealous or just a cantankerous old git lol... maybe try nice .. if that doesn't work I'm sure what he is doing watching you all the time is some sort of stalking LOL
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He would probably take the free eggs and cup of coffee offered, then go home and put a complaint in about selling eggs or something. Sounds like he is just one of those people who enjoy complaining about others. Maybe he did that in his last home, who knows. But its not nice, is it?
I am just about to start looking for a new place, and after my experience a few year ago at out old house with horrible neighbours, I am paranoid about who I end up next to Thats why I am making an effort to find somewhere well away from anyone.
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LoL so true Roxy...
I was told that I could have a cockrel where I live (in the city) however if someone complained I would have to get rid of it. Check out the noise pollution laws thing, i think it goes the same for excessively barking dogs or something.. Just find out where you stand and what YOUR rights are :) at least that way your in a much stonger position. If his behaviour does continue to escalate then you may have cause to consider it harrasement. particularly if he is spying on you all the time ... I don't know much about the legal stuff most of the people who live around me are old people and find my antics of poultry and urban smallholding quite entertaining I think lol.
I wish you all the best and although it might seem hair pullingly frustrating at times just know that we are all behind you !
Sam
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Maybe try the Citizens Advice Bureau. They often have solicitors who volunteer - a solicitor may come up with something w ehaven't thought of :chook: Good Luck & keep your chin up.
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I am fine with it all and not stressing as much.
He is married with no children and no pets (that is how he introduced himself to the people in the village), he is also a lot older than me so I have come up with something that I think of everytime it gets to me - He is older than me so all the stress may just kill him so how do I teach sheep to have a midnight rave?
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I best not say exactly what I would do , but he would be incapable of spying on me 'from a hospital room'!!! . The law is a total ass these days and you seem to get nowhere when people like him target you . I just do things the old way ... have a quiet word and then when that doesn't work , kick the crap out of them ... It may be that I may end up with a slap on the wrist from pc plod , but matey next door gets a free holiday ,in hospital !!! he also gets to suck his food through a straw for a month or so ...
I know that this is a bad thing to do ... but I have had this sort of crap from people myself , they soon change tack after a little slap or two ( mind you size 9 steel toe caps work well too ) .. not saying you should do , or get done , what I would do , but no way will bastards like him ruin my life . Even if I ended up doing time over it , I would walk out of nick fairly soon ... but he would come out of hospital in a chair with wheels .....and would need someone to feed him his food forever more ..... :o ;D ;D ;D I am really a quiet person and cause no body any harm , nor would I interfere with others way of life .... unless !!! they stick their nose in my life , then .....SHTF ....muck spreader style...
cheers
Russ
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I could always come around in uniform and say that we're looking for emergency helicopter landing sites but it would be unsuitable due to the animals you keep on your land. I'd pop around to his first and see if he has any objections to that, I'll say that I'd already been around to yours and that you have no objections as you're getting rid of your livestock due to objections over you keeping them... Could work?
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Darn it I thought you lot were looking for landing sites most nights and some days I got thrown of a horse when one copter come over a little bit low the other week, I am really surprised he hasn't complained about the night exercises yet as he under the misguided illusion that he countryside is silent at all times.
One thing I would to know why my radio alarm switches on some nights when the copters come over.
You are quite welcome to use the back field just warn me and I'll move the horse that would annoy him hehehe
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ellisr... is it a genuine offer , or just the mention of a man in uniform?! ;) :)
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Russ, I like your style! ;)
Ian
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Do I care!!!!!! both are good to me lol.....Two birds with one stone and all that I see this as a win win situation ;D
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Ellisr,
Hi, not sure if this will help, but try reporting him to the police, you are feeling threatened and intimidated (these are the words to use). Especially effective if you have young children.
this advice came from a friend who worked with CAB.
Hope you get it all sorted out.
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I am now living alone as my husband couldn't take the pressures of it all, and all the kids have flown the nest. So I am going to use that I am walking around with my note book and writing things down to make a case.
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Thats not a nice situation at all, if you are alone, and this man I assume knows it?
If there is something you could specifically report to the police, perhaps him seeing a police car outside your home, would be enough to make him at least think, and back off you.
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It would but at the moment I have greater things on my mind than a sad man with nothing better to do. He will get his comupence when this situation is all over. I am a great believer in what doesn't kill us makes us stronger so he better watch out as I don't have anyone to hold me back now
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How about a nice lawyer's letter of intent to sue him for loss of earnings if he continues his plight against your stock.
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can I sue for loss of husband at the same time?
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Having suffered at the hands of neighbours like this in the past, I can fully understand the stress this has put on your husband and yourself. The stress I was under caused me to have really bad stomach ulcers. We are not about to move out of the farm, and we still own the house where we had all the trouble. I cannot move back there, even though the neighbours have moved .....my caravan is a nicer option.
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Hey, Roxy, are things better for you now then.
Ellisr - you should let a lawyer know that your husband left the marital home because of this man stalking you both.