The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Horses, ponies, donkeys & mules => Topic started by: lazybee on July 23, 2010, 05:40:01 am
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How many horse drivers do we have on here?
I have 5 horses and one donkey and they are all for driving. We get out every day but give them one day a week off. Here in France I have hundreds of miles of off road from my door in all directions. it's a driving paradise I can go out for a couple of hours and not see a car ;D ;D What do you do with yours??
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I have a Shire mare who I have broken to ride this year. I'd like to break her to drive but equipment to fit her is rather expensive!! :o ;D
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My Highland is broken to drive although we haven't done anything since an accident a couple of years ago. I'd really like to get him back into it, at least pulling a harrow, when we move. The Shetland has been longreined and I think he'd be suitable for driving too.
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I have 4 horses, one on loan, he is an expacer, wouldn't dare put him back in shafts as he paces at 38 miles an hour and I may never be seen again!
Elma is an ex hunter but has been driven but is out of work at the moment.
Isaac is only 3, will be started longreining proper in a month or so then turned away for the winter to do a bit more growing, he needs to level up a bit as he's still 'bum high'
And Odinn, my pride and joy, he a drive and ride (as opposed to a ride and drive) Ridden he is a happy hacker although I do need to get on with schooling him under saddle to work on his bends and balance and get him to strike off into canter on the right rein without throwing a buck (leg over shaft is not a nice experience!) But as a driver, he is totally at home, ears pricked all the time, not spooky and just great! :)
He was out of work for 8 months due to the horrendous winter them being lame for 3 months, but back in it now and has been driving again to the past 2 weeks, last weekend we did a 2 day BDS forest drive up in in Aberdeenshire, 17 km in Fetteresso Forest and then 15km in Drumtochty Forest, his first outing in company since our last Indoor Trials in Nov 2008. HE WAS A STAR!
Drove about 12 miles with him yesterday, he just keeps going and going, do need to work on his walking speed though if we are to do any outdoor trials.
There is another BDS drive in 2 weeks at Fettercairn, 14 or 19 km, think the 19 will stretch his legs for him.
I am working towards my BDS Intermediate Exam in October and for my portfolio I have to choose an optional unit, I have chosen Pleasure Driving as that is the most happening up here so with last weeks drives and the one in the fortnight to come, my 3 'Observations' of Practical driving is complete!
You get a little rosette for driving too which is nice.
I just LOVE Carriage Driving and driving your own turnout instead of grooming for someone else is just the best feeling, I am so proud of Odinn, we have been through a lot, including the move up here which he found quite unsettling but our trust in each other is back up there and we have come out the other side a stronger partnership, cant wait to 'Keep On Driving'.
When I can be persuaded to not drive him and put him in chains, he will do a bit of logging for us in the Autumn, he's fine through the woods and pulls weights great over the ground, will give us some firewood and clear the area the harvesters left next to our grazing, must keep my permit in my pocket for that one!
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We have 3 Dales who are broken to drive, a Fell and a Dartmoor x pony. Sadly following a dog attack at a driving event, the Dartie is no longer safe and has had to be retired. It was horrendous, and I myself am no longer happy to take the reins following that incident, but will groom - not to comfortable with that to be honest, any more.
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Roxy I was self taught and thought I was doing ok until my first indoor trials, we were winning our group and doing cones when Odinn did a yeeehaaa buck on a tight bend, went up inside the shafts and came down outside them, all I remember was someone shouting turn him into the wall which I did and my groom promptly got off and ran away!!! Odinn got his leg back in and set off like the hounds of hell were after him, round and round we went, crushing every cone in sight, I pulled him up outside the viewing gallery and said 'Is that error of course then?' My groom got back on and we did 3 more cones before retiring as he had bent the shafts and cut his legs.
We did do the next indoor although with a different groom, she has never driven again since then. I didnt enjoy the trials although we came second and was very nervous of driving him after that.
When I moved up here to Scotland I realised just how close I was to Jane and Ewan MacInnes, I went along for one morning a week as a working pupil, I now work for Jane, doing Driving for the Disabled, kids parties, weddings, Father Christmas transport (Reindeer can only go til the snow runs out!) etc. I have now taken and passed my BDS Road Driving Test and BDS Prelim, am working towards my Intermediate in October and BEST OF ALL, due to all my new found knowledge and gained confidence, (and Odinn being sound!) I am driving Odinn again and LOVING every single minute of it.
It took a long time to get there but I was determined to get there, Odinn means soooooo much to me. It has been a long wait but it has been worth every minute to have that confidence back and to be able to trust him again. Obviously the biggest test will be the first Indoor Trials in October but I'm sure we will be ok.
Will keep you posted!
I know what its like to be put off I really do, keep on Grooming Roxy, you never know, you may get back in the box seat again!
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My Arthur is broken to drive, but earlier this year he had a bad encounter with a motorbike which has shaken his confidence a bit so we aren't pushing him to drive this year .. just taking him out and rebuilding his confidence.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs094.snc3/16158_192963569098_563414098_2804882_34510_n.jpg)
Sam
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hello Sam,
I wonder if you have anymore pics of the carriage that you could put up for me please , as it is exactly the sort I want to make for my babies to use. I have no money so could never afford a new one , or even a ropey secondhand one come to that !!!
No worries if nothing available , I can work out the main bits from the pic anyway ... roughly !!
cheers
Russ
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Russ, we go to carriage sales and you can pick up frames, motorbike wheels, etc very, very cheap sometimes. In fact, a farmer was at a machinery sale a couple of weeks ago, and said a 2 wheeled exercise cart went for £1.
We have a little 4 wheeled carriage which was for Tyson our little pony. Someone had made that at home I think. 2 seats up front, and the previous owner had made the back into space to carry his dogs and shopping home.
Ponyntrap, pleased you got back into driving ok. I am fine tootling along the lanes, but thats about it nowadays, although last summer I did take a friends mini shetland round the cones. He was in his 20's and has one eye, so thought maybe too old to run off with me. But he went like the clappers.
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cheers Roxy ,
things like that don't go cheap round here ... lol ... the last 'cheap' exercise cart I saw went for £160 and it was rough ....very rough . I can knock up something out of scrap , but I wanted something halfway decent to do as the bloke you talk about did ... pop the dogs in the back and go to the shops etc ...lol.
I will be making an exercise cart soon , with a tow hitch fitted . Then I can put on a trailer and other bits and bobs . Just got to train the horse to drive then !!!!
Round here everything horsey seems to go through Llanybydder sales , and goes for silly money . A really rough working collar ( not usable ) went for £200 ?? some really crap working gear went for the same sort of money .. just a small pile of rusty chains with some rotten leather tied to them ?? The collectors have priced me out !!
So what I have done is collected all the tools I need to make everything I want . I have the forge ready for the off now , got most of the leather tools I need and have all the woodwork tools I need also ... so will be making all I want/need from now on .
I have a set of plans for a carriage similar to Sam's one , but much larger . They are of a WW1 horse drawn ambulance lol.... way bigger than I want . I want one like Sam's but maybe with moped wheels fitted . I can cast new hubs from Aluminium if need be , as I want to just have a normal axle /nut/lynch pin fitting rather than the fork type fitting you need with moped type wheels/hubs . Lots of ways to do it anyway ...!!
cheers
Russ
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If I can unearth my camera, will take a pic of the little 4 wheeler. Tyson is only 11.2hh pony, so it is quite small.
Won't be coming down your way to buy any carriage stuff at those prices :o
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Hi Russ.
If you let me know what sort of harness you are after,and what sort of horses/work you have in mind, I can look out for stuff up here. I have a few traveller friends who I buy from now and then. I often hear of bits and pieces for sale in my travels around various yards and sales, too.
Just a few thoughts on self-build vehicles...
Two-wheelers are safer than four for breaking horses to driving/working. A 2 wheeler can turn on a sixpence and is less likely to tip if the horse turns quickly for some reason. A Bradford type cart is a very handy thing as it has a flat bed for carrying stuff.
Of the four wheelers, for lugging stuff around, I would always favour a flat bed dray or lorry/trolley. They are fairly easy to make if you can source or make decent unders such as a turntable, springs, axles and wheels. Many of them run on military wheels, and these can be picked up for decent money on the likes of 'Dragon Driving' http://www.dragondriving.co.uk/ As some of them are heavy, especially when loaded, they usually have a wind-on brake on the near front. This allows for the 'driver' to work the brake from a seated position on the dray, or from the ground if walking alongside, thus aiding the horse(s) when going downhill.
I went to see a man in Herefordshire recently http://www.crunchiescobs.co.uk/ and he knows what he's doing. He uses harness from Aaron Martin in Canada. It's quite reasonably priced and good quality. http://www.aaronmartin.com/index.html
If you decide to build a 4 wheeler, you must make sure there is enough clearance under the bed to allow the shafts to rotate at least 90* to facilitate turning. If this is not accomodated, the bed will interfere with the shafts as the horse turns, and you'd risk a tip over. You would either have to make sure the shafts can turn under the bed, or shape the front of the bed (take the corners off) to allow for this.
Remember, too, that the angle of draught, ie the route the traces take from collar to the fixings on the vehicle, is similar to the angle of the shafts to be correct. If you are using breast harness, you'll need a swingle tree or, if you're using a full collar, you can yoke to the vehicle itself, so you may want to allow for both at the building stage.
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Also check out online.. there are some club groups on facebook and the like where people sell off their old stuff really cheap :)
Sam
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Thanks Roxy , pics would be handy . Gear can be dear , but the horses can be cheap !! so swings and roundabouts I suppose.
cheers Sam, not on facebook , nor will I be joining I'm afraid !!, don't like anything about it , or the way they collect information and keep it 'all'.... Also I live on very little money , it is a conscious thing/way of life I live , and in my normal day to day life , it makes no difference to at all .
However when I need 'things' whatever 'they' may be ?, I struggle , well I don't even bother to be honest !! lol , as most things that are cheap to people who live a normal lifestyle (for want of a better description ) , are out of my reach completely .
For me to afford even what would seem the cheapest of things, I would have to jump back on the merry go round that is MONEY . That is where many people who don't understand why I live the way I live say , "well if you want these things , you have to get a job , and earn the money to do so !!" , that is the merry go round , one I choose not to be part of .
I do it the way it used to be done , even when I was a kid !!, if you want something , make it !!!
Sorry to chunter on a bit there .. just thought I best explain why even £50 or so , is so hard to come by.
Cheers Aengus,
see above ...lol. From now on , any money I get has to be kept for winter feed for the horses . So as above ,even cheap gear is almost impossible to get , dependent on time of year .
I have 3 horses , well , a Welsh mountain pony 11 hands appx , her son 14 hands, and then the biggun standing at about 16 + hands . The little one is old now , but the other 2 can do whatever . I want to do a small amount of ploughing/harrowing/seed sowing and grass cutting and harvesting ( if I can rebuild the binder reaper ? ) . I can make swingle trees , either from wood or all metal . I have a plough a YL type, and I am in the process of getting a wuffler , a side rake , a row maker , finger mower and a spring tyne harrow.
I have a few rear axles off of vans ( Renault traffic ) , that I could use to make a trolley type 4 wheeler , also have an 8'x4' 2 ton twin axle car trailer I can convert , or sell ? if it would make enough to cover the cost of buying a flatbed trolley type 4 wheeler . Thanks for the info too , will keep it all in mind .
I will be getting a heavy cob type mare at some time soon . Cob/shire whatever , and from about 14 hh upwards . . I can pick one of those up for about £350 , where that will come from I know not ? lol .
I may be lucky though and get one from Llanybydder horse mart , an 18 mth shire gelding went for £60 last time I was there....so cheapies do pop up even there....well you can get any number of ponies from £5 there .
Anyway , thanks for the advice again .
cheers
Russ
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We have no posh carriages, an everyday basic one, and one slightly better for shows. Get pushed down the line in the shows, as the judge always spot the posher carriages ....but sometimes he realises the pony pulling the cart is the important part of the set up!! We have won the Dales shows three times with our little carriage, and that was the everyday one ......
We got a third place at quite a big agricultural show, last August, again with our everyday carraige
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/dollylane/halifaxshow8thAUGUST20090008.jpg)
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ponyntrap, where are you?
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ponyntrap, where are you?
I'm here!! ;D
I'm in Aberdeenshire if you mean where do I live!! Have just been checking out the latest posts, am liking the Dales....a lot!!
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Roxy, is your trap a Hillam?
I have a Hillam for everyday driving and a Cumbria Carriage 3 phase (complete with bent bits!) for competing, Odinn hasnt been in it for over a year, just need to sort out some Tilbury Tugs then we can start practising for Dressage and cones on 18th Aug!!
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Ponyntrap - yes thats a Hillam in the pic. Will add another pic at the bottom of this post, showing the other Hillam, which for some reason is bigger, and you are higher up. I like the Hillam, and that one in the first pic is ancient now. We had it years ago, and it was second hand then. Cannot fault it. We have used them on a variety of sizes as they do adjust, which is good.
Thats Molly in the pic, my riding mare. We do showing in hand with her over the summer months.
This pic was taken by the professional photograher at the Dales and Fell show in Derbyshire.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/dollylane/derbyshirefellanddalesshow.jpg)
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Very nice!
Unfortunately when John Hillam made mine he made it the same spec as the other one I had which was heavy horse size so i have a wide axle, otherwise I would be showing him in that, mind you, might be worth a try for experience eh!
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Oh My he is adorable!! what a stunner!
I appreciate your not wanting to be part of the rat race and commend you for making your stuff... :)
I am a member of a driving club in my area which I think costs me £10 or £13 per year ... a lot of stuff gets traded between members as the driving community I find really do try to help each other out. Perhaps your local driving club may know of someone who has a harness that can be traded for something else?
Apart from that and looking for a cheap deal on some of the equestrian sites (and of course making it yourself) Im not sure what else to suggest but hope you find what you need :)
Sam
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I have added a Hillam Shetland Trap to my Christmas list in the hope my OH will take the hint. I break the Shetlands to drive but my exercise cart was too heavy so sold it. I used to drive my big horse. A local man in Huntly made her carriage which was for showing, very smart. Not sure if he is still alive as it was 18 years ago.
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this thread has given me the bug!!! anyone near me if Fife that would like to help me get started please? i have 2 cobs, both of whom have been long reined regularly....it's the next part i'm a bit anxious about!
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this thread has given me the bug!!! anyone near me if Fife that would like to help me get started please? i have 2 cobs, both of whom have been long reined regularly....it's the next part i'm a bit anxious about!
Egglady, have you driven before? there is Maryculter Carriage Driving Centre in Aberdeen, Jane does a 3 day package, you stay in a self contained flat (she does stock the fridge I believe) might be worth a look, she has a website. I actually work for Jane and can vouch that she is EXCELLENT!! She is just off to Holker Hall in Cumbria for a National Horse Driving Trials Event, her hubby is competing and she is judging the 4 most advanced dressage tests, not him though!!
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this thread has given me the bug!!! anyone near me if Fife that would like to help me get started please? i have 2 cobs, both of whom have been long reined regularly....it's the next part i'm a bit anxious about!
I'm yer man...
I break horses to drive and work on a driving yard. I'd definitely be interested in helping you get going. I'll PM you my contact details and we could have a chat about it...no strings.
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oh all excited now! dont think i can do 3 days away to aberdeen as not fair to leave hubby with work, children and animals -so sadly that one isnt a go-er.....but if angusog is 'my man' then i cannae wait!
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Go for it, Egglady ....you will enjoy it!!
We are just breaking one of our young Dales ponies to harness at the moment, and have a young Fell filly too, to break. Have done a friends outgrown Welsh Section A too, and will be having him back to do more work on him. Keep getting enquiries from people who want to learn to drive, but we are busy with our own ponies, and have to fit it in around that.
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weel folks, i woke up at 3am this morning and realised that i had the PERFECT horse right under my nose. an 18 yo welsh cob who is totally bomb proof - i almost think (not that i would ever do such a thng) but if i were to put the full it on him today he wouldnt bother - you know that kind of horse?
so aengus - where are you?
and does anyone know of anyone with spare kit that they'd sell me cheap as chips - or barter for lamb/duck/chicken/eggs/veggies....children????
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AengusOg is based near Arbroath.
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that'll do for me! (used to live in arbroath)
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Egglady, you should be able to pick up a cheap set of webbing harness - they are brilliant, cos you don't need to clean with saddle soap. You can wash it!! We use webbing for everyday use, as the cleaning is so easy.
Pity you are not down here, we have webbing sets around I am sure. How big is your cob - is he cob sized in bridles etc. or full?
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Egglady, you should be able to pick up a cheap set of webbing harness - they are brilliant, cos you don't need to clean with saddle soap. You can wash it!! We use webbing for everyday use, as the cleaning is so easy.
Pity you are not down here, we have webbing sets around I am sure. How big is your cob - is he cob sized in bridles etc. or full?
I love webbing harness' I don't use anything else. Either a wet sponge or they get shoved in an old washing machine in the barn. I HATE CLEANING LEATHER. I'd rather be out driving, but I don't go to shows. I love thrashing down tracks getting covered in mud. :horse:
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hello Sam,
I wonder if you have anymore pics of the carriage that you could put up for me please , as it is exactly the sort I want to make for my babies to use. I have no money so could never afford a new one , or even a ropey secondhand one come to that !!!
No worries if nothing available , I can work out the main bits from the pic anyway ... roughly !!
cheers
Russ
Hello Russ, Just a couple of notes if you're planning on making some sort of carriage. If you end up making a two wheeler it's quite difficult to get the balance right. You really have to aim for no more than a few ounces of weight forward bias at the tugs. That's with you sitting in the seat. I have a home made one and it is well balanced. To be honest though by the time you've had the shafts bent to the right shape and find a trailer axle with good tyres, then covered the seat. Not to mention the welding rods, grinding discs, paint and steel (best not to use scrap on the structural bits). It works out more expensive. Then there's the safety for both you and the horse. The shafts have to be part of the chassis if they are welded on there will be a weak point at the heat affected area. Personally I would buy an old secondhand training cart and re-build it.
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cheers lb,
I have a number of choices really . I have a few books with plans for two wheelers of all sorts, the old wooden type , from old farm tippers to governess carts , and wagons of all descriptions . I have access to plenty of Ash Oak and a few other hardwoods and plenty of softwood . Bending the shafts is no real problem and would do that myself . I can make the larger old style axle from wood and have the axle stubs to take the wheels or go more modern and use all metal axles . I have an old one from about the 1900's , will dig it out and take a piccy . For wheels I can use a car or van axle and wheels, or make metal ones , or even cast military ones out of aluminium . I am almost set up now to make wooden ones too .
At the moment I am tending to go towards the old two wheeled tipper . As it is very versatile for the holding , can carry muck , stone, hay, straw etc etc , or me to the shop when I need to . The woodwork is no problem for me , and I have the forge now , to make all the metalwork myself . The only thing I don't have at the moment is a tyre bender , so would have to use the old system of strakes on wooden wheels , ok on heavy farm type wheels .
Oh and I don't use grinding discs...hate the bloody things , scare the living carp out of me :o .... so I use files .. the old way ::).
All the timber for a little tipper is free as is any metal I need to use , bar , rod or flat section . Yes it is all scrap , but not thin rusted away scrap , but good solid stuff is all I collect.
At this moment in time I couldn't afford £50 for anything ... but got plenty of wood and metal , and all the tools I need so over the winter I will be putting something together...I am fed up with walking !!! ;D ;D
cheers
Russ