The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Womble on April 11, 2017, 11:26:07 am
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Hi folks,
Our lambs last year had persistently mucky back ends (particularly the boys for some reason), and we never really figured out the root cause. Several FECs came back negative, and since this persisted for weeks, I don't think it was just down to changes in grass quality.
Our vet suggested that our grass might be deficient in selenium and/or cobalt, and indeed when I gave them a multi-vitamin and mineral drench, they improved rapidly (not conclusive proof, but enough to give rise to suspicion). The over-wintered lambs have then been fine all winter, but now they're off hay and onto grass, there are again a few mucky bums about.
My question is, how do I go about proving that this is what's going on. Pasture analysis? Blood test? I'm nervous about giving a supplement that is not required, in case they overdose somehow - am I right to be?.
Then, if that is the problem, what's the best way to correct it? A regular drench would be easiest, but I can't find anything on how often to give it. The alternative is to give a slow release bolus which should last for several months.
Any thoughts? :thumbsup:
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Bloods are the best information but you cant supplement at the time otherwise you get a false reading.
All stock should be outside with mineral licks/salt licks. Moved around on strip grazed system.
You can get full ground testing but make sure they are not sales people. Get all full test. PH is not of any interest and dont sold down the river with the liming.
Never ever bolus without full bloods - pointless and expensive.
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Forage analysis. Don't bother with soil analysis.
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Also the vet should of explained you take any animal off hay then on grass they poo for Britain. Some show no change but cows for instance can poo through an eye of a needle!
Also animal with low minerals will show other serious signs of weakness, poor conformation, high worms, poor wool. Seeing that you have negative worms then the stress level must be low. I would be pretty surprised if there was a mineral problem.
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Forage analysis. Don't bother with soil analysis.
Yes every farm should be doing this - plenty dont but its free for us.
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Also the vet should of explained you take any animal off hay then on grass they poo for Britain.
Granted! But for how long? Surely they should settle down after a week or so, right?
Who would you recommend for a forage analysis? (I take it I'd best wait a few weeks until the grass is properly growing, too?)
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I would be tissue testing the growing pasture, then fodder testing the hay made this year, then blood testing. or some combo of those.
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I just get the vet to blood test and treat accordingly
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You could blood test but it is much more expensive. Also the grass / forage (hay/silage) will be the source of your problems so best you understand what is going on with that first.
I can recommend Jonathan Guy at JG Animal Health to do the analysis and tell you wots wot. He also sells mineral supplements. Mole Valley Forage Services also do it.
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Mole valley are commission based... So bare that in mind.
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If you have a farm shop - that deal with farmers and grass seed they should do a hay sample FOC. With have Hay & Brecon here. Once I have it back the agricologist discusses it with us without selling anything. May be a postal service for an independant company????
We automatically do this every year. Never comes with with any serious issues but usually is very good. If I was buying in hay I would be asking to see this analysis sheet.
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http://www.tandj.co.uk/agricultural/albion-laboratory-services/forage (http://www.tandj.co.uk/agricultural/albion-laboratory-services/forage)
This is the company that does our testing but I go through am agent - worth giving them a ring and seeing if you can go through someone by you or direct, Cheers
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JG Animal Health won't give you the hard sell, he will just give you advice. It cost me £25 + VAT per analysis.
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Rockies do a SC Sheep selenium cobalt lick 2 x 10kg yellow blocks they aren't too expensive i use them as a summer mineral block probably worth a try and if it solves the problem there's your husbandry answer
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A drench is a short lived solution - should be repeated every 4 weeks for C&S. A bolus will last much longer but you need to be sure that's what they are deficient in first.
We are deficient in C&S and its surprising what a difference it makes - poor wool, poor doers, lambs not as vigorous etc....
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Rockies do a SC Sheep selenium cobalt lick 2 x 10kg yellow blocks they aren't too expensive i use them as a summer mineral block probably worth a try and if it solves the problem there's your husbandry answer
I've just got those too.
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Our vet suggested that our grass might be deficient in selenium and/or cobalt, and indeed when I gave them a multi-vitamin and mineral drench, they improved rapidly (not conclusive proof, but enough to give rise to suspicion). The over-wintered lambs have then been fine all winter, but now they're off hay and onto grass, there are again a few mucky bums about.
My question is, how do I go about proving that this is what's going on. Pasture analysis? Blood test? I'm nervous about giving a supplement that is not required, in case they overdose somehow - am I right to be?.
Then, if that is the problem, what's the best way to correct it? A regular drench would be easiest, but I can't find anything on how often to give it. The alternative is to give a slow release bolus which should last for several months.
Any thoughts? :thumbsup:
You live in the north of the UK and have grassland (agric classification, not arable, I mean) - your land is copper, cobalt and selenium deficient. No test required!
I have no experience of blouses in sheep, but if you get a chelated drench, the minerals are released slowly over 6-8 weeks, and you will probably find that once or twice a year is plenty. If you know when the lambs need it, that's one, and the other at tupping time to ensure the ewes and tup are in tip top fettle.
Chelated drenches cost quite a bit more than the cheaper sort, but will give you a far better result because of the slow release.
I'd try it this year on the lambs and see what happens. Or maybe try it on half...
The one I used to use was Carrs' Ovithrive
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I have no experience of boluses in sheep, either. I left the autocorrect error there because it made me laugh :)
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You live in the north of the UK and have grassland (agric classification, not arable, I mean) - your land is copper, cobalt and selenium deficient. No test required!
It's not as simple as that though is it? Different types of grasses and legumes are able to pull differing amounts of minerals out of the ground. So the make up of your pasture grasses is as important as the local soil/rock types. Also if you live near any industry then you could get fallout from that which could be creating mineral lock-up problems or altering the mineral analysis. Also the amount of rainfall you get can have an impact etc.
Just get the grass tested - that is the primary input of the sheep so that is what you should look at first.
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Thanks all. I'll have the grass tested once it's growing properly, and will report back :thumbsup:.