The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: eah1n12 on April 10, 2017, 03:40:08 pm
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So i'm moving to somewhere with land (about 1 acre) and was hoping to get some sheep (2-3). Intention is for them to keep the grass down, then to also lamb them for meat as well. I just don't know which is the best breed to go for. At the moment I'm really interested in Border Leicesters and Zwartbles. Does anyone have any advice for me on which breed to go for?
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I have no experience with the two breeds you've mentioned but I have a small flock of Norfolk horns. They're great for rough grazing and have had no problems with feet or flystrike touch wood! They're easy to handle and come to the bucket which makes catching them easy, they've also respected Electric fences! They are due to lamb to a Poll Dorset this week, they have a nice wide pelvis so larger breed of Rams don't cause lambing problems if used. I'm biased but they've been a pleasure to own :thumbsup:
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So, a few things to think about:
1) an acre ish is not a lot of land for sheep.... I know people talk about having 3 to 6 sheep per acre in certain circles, but this does require rotation. so really you'd have half an acre, twice... same difference, but it's a consideration. This also assumes that you dont want a barn, veg patches, orchard, chicken run, polytunnels etc. Sheep like space.
2) have a read of the old "guide to self sufficiency" book by John Seymour, he has a 1 acre plot example in there.
3) I would start off by getting some cade/tame/pet lambs from someone, and rearing them for meat to begin with. You then avoid things like shearing and lambing to begin with.
4) They used to say border leicesters were sold with a free shovel to bury them with.... bare that in mind - although I've never had them myself.
5) Are they for meat for the house, for spinning wool, to sell to people as meat boxes? Most of these sort of questions will help to pinpoint a breed, along with your locality. Traditional breeds tend to be slower growing and theirfor tastier. Commercial and continental breeds are faster growing and heavier. I have White Faced Woodlands with a WFW Ram and also a Texel Ram - that way, any ewes not suitable for pedigree breeding will have texel cross lambs (tasty because of the WFW in them, but faster growing for a pre-autumn crop), whilst the rest stay pure for slower grown meat and pedigree breeding stock. mind you, most of this is not relevant on a 1 acre plot.
6) if you do start to breed, bare in mind that you have to feed both the ewes you started out with, plus the ram (unless you can hire), plus the lambs they have. Don't bet on the lambs all finishing before the autumn, and if they don't finish before the autumn, they will go "growy" and put on bone growth not fat... so you'll have to keep them till spring.
Basically what I'm saying is that breeding sheep in anything like a sustainable way on 1 acre is a big ask. you could do it with some intensive methods - creep feeds etc - but then what's the point? You'll have a fast grown watery lamb joint at the end of it.
once you have a local contact cade/tame/pet lambs are available every year for between £10 and £20 generally.
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Hiya, there are a few of us on here who keep Zwartbles :wave:. They're big sheep, but also very docile and in general very friendly (sometimes too friendly! ;D)
You'll find quite a bit of information at http://www.zwartbles.org/ (http://www.zwartbles.org/), and if you have any specific questions, just ask.
Whereabouts are you based BTW?
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We started with some commercial type texels but have more recently really like our local breed (Derbyshire Gritstone) so we are venturing into those, very friendly, docile, easy to handle, do well on poor ground and bad weather - great all round sheep!
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I suggest reading Tim Tyne's book to begin with. It will give you a good overall view of the things you need to considerbefore you actually get a CPH number and buy some sheep. I, too, would recommend starting off by getting a couple of store lambs and finishing them. This will give you a good overview of some of the considerations like grazing, worming, foot trimming, vaccinating, using a pour-on, dagging, good fencing, a permanent water supply, transportation to market or the abattoir, etc.
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for a starter flock I would try a small sheep. Unless you are a strong and big person I would avoid all big breeds. Def something more commercial over pure. Remember a big sheep will eat more grass than say a Balwen.
Even though 1 acre can sustain say 5 ewes as said above it would depend on the ground conditions and you cant keep sheep on the same piece of land. You either divide it into small paddocks or electric fence strips. You must allow for rotation and land resting. Grass wont grow Nov - March so you'll either have to bring them in or keep them out with hay. Remember about poaching problems and weed control.
I had 12 wilts on half an acre the other day they stripped it in a couple of days. Sheep eat a lot and the bigger the sheep as a wilt the huge amounts they consume.
I wood recommend starting with a small breed as a Balwen. Kate Humble chose this breed to suit her and can work with small sheep. Dont under estimate the head power of something like a Border.
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Whatever breed you go with it might be worth buying from a smallholder flock rather than a commercial flock. We bought our first sheep from a big commercial flock of Lleyns last summer, completely untouched 2tooth ewes.. we turned them out and I remember thinking I'll never see them again :roflanim: took me a while to tame them up... they have only just calmed down marginally after having their first lambs. Not a problem for us as we had other pet lambs and cattle to run them with last summer and teach them about cake and following a bucket, but for novice sheep keepers it might be an issue :thinking:
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Unless you are a strong and big person I would avoid all big breeds.
That's actually what put me off Zwartbles to begin with. However, I've found that it's not the size that matters so much as how they behave. Because they aren't scared to be handled, our Zs don't jump about, smack me in the face or knock me over. I can still tip the ewes over if I need to, but since I can mostly check their feet whilst they're standing up, that's quite rare these days. The other advantage of bigger sheep is that many of the costs such as slaughter, ear tags, vaccinations etc are per head rather than per kg. So, even though they eat proportionately more, they can cost proportionately less.
Also, another important factor which I hadn't initially understood is that with some breeds you can get the lambs away to the butcher the same year they're born, whilst with others you really have to overwinter them (i.e. more cost and hassle).
Different setups work for different people of course, but these are just things that I wish I'd been more informed about before I started, so I hope they're helpful :thumbsup:.
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Agree Womble
We've always killed at 1 yr old as a commercial flock. Most breeds that are selling lambs at 5 months or so are stuffing the hell into them. The farmers doing this are doing it entirely for commercial reasons and to keep grass (plus cash flow for those who rely on just sheep)
If you are new to keeping sheep then I would advise to starting with a small breed to get used to raising them and back to the amount of grass you have available.
We have Easycare which are pretty wild. I still struggle to catch and get them over I think your inside leg measurement should take into account what breed. Used to keep a large flock of Wiltshires however these are massive and wide (plus horns which can be brutal) They will literally drag me around and I can ride them like a pony hence no good for me. However if you were just buying lambs to fatten for good you wont be disappointed with the carcass size and weight finished purely on grass.
One of the reasons for Easycare is no wool and this is a consideration finding someone to sheer 3 sheep! Wool worthless. Also lot less fly strike and easy lambing.
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good points! of course shearing is only a concern once/if the OP starts breeding. cade/pet/orphan lambs should finish before they need shearing.
the plus sideof having 2 or 3 sheep (if shearing is required) is that you can do it with hand shears if you're fit and able... you'll need to watch some youtube, and get a lesson or 2 in person, but it aint rocket science.
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I'd start with a docile breed which does well on sparse ground - if it's a tameable breed you'll get real pleasure from them. We chose Ryelands and have found the Flock Book society and other Ryeland owners really helpful with advice. It doesn't matter so much about the size if the animal is easy to manage.
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To start with I agree with starting out with cade/tame/pet lambs one it gets you used to how sheep work, the next point I am going to make is that for one acre you will only get a temp CPH ( County Parish Holding) number, i know this as two years ago I had to help my mum register her 1acre paddock so I could send my ewe lambs down there for wintering and at the moment I only produce 4 ewe lambs/year and usually they have the grass gone in 6 weeks so you will have to buy feed and hay in to keep them going so on one acre its not advisable to breed on. Though not everyone on here will agree but its hard to do as at weaning you need thttp://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/Smileys/default/thumbsup.gifo keep lambs and ewes seperate and then if you have any tup lambs they will need to be kept seperate from the ewe lambs and the older ewes to stop in-breeding
Hope this helps!!!!! :thumbsup:
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We did a pair of Cade lambs year one, taking them to the abbatior in November and bout 3 in lamb ewes to replace, now have around 20. As has been said, they eat a lot of grass and right now despite having a lot more land than you we are struggling due to lack of rain so it is useful to go through the first years slowly as it can have some surprises.
The cades taught us a lot and really that experience helped a lot for year two as there was a new learning curve on lambing in April and then tupping in September.
If you are only having 3 or 4 primarily for meat then I am not sure there is real benefit in pedigree. If you do want pedigree and to breed then you need access to a ram and that probably means finding a breeder near you who will let your come and visit!
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Agree with the others, some pet lambs might be a good place to start, keep them for the summer and then put them in the freezer. Long term if you wanted to breed your own then something like an Easycare or Wiltshire Horn, that won't need shearing. In this area a lot of shearers aren't interested in coming out to shear one or 2 sheep and if they do their very expensive, as its just not worth their while.
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[member=168790]bj_cardiff[/member]
Its the same up here I am at around 14 ewes to go to tup this year with 4 followers for next year and I have to clip my ewes on my own as starting price for anything under a 100 ewes is £100. My goal is to get the flock to around 40 ewes. I have the advantage of having come from a hill farming family with a lowland unit as well for finishing the fat lambs on over winter, and wintering the in calf cows on so i have plenty of sheep experience.
The big thing about going down the Cade/tame/pet lambs is once the are finished your area has time to clean up before the next lot come in so worm burden on them won't be heavy as with a long rest the ground will be clean. Where as on small acreage it's harder to control as you will need to shut them off one side for around 4wks to let the other area clean up.
Sorry for being so technical but I've been working with sheep since the age of 4 so know enough to help out.
Sam
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If you're planning to breed sheep one acre is really too small, unless you can rent land nearby for grazing when your own grass is short or are willing to buy in hay over the Winter. The grass is growing here, but slowly as nights are cool and it's hardly rained for seven weeks. Last Spring was so cold the fields looked like billiard tables until the end of May.
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Thanks everyone!!!
I will definitely look into starting with some pet lambs and finishing them for the freezer. I think like you've all said starting off with the intention of lambing etc might be a bit ambitious. So ill look into getting some pet lambs from a small holder maybe. I have the potential to rent some land of some friends, but I would need to make sure this is certain before delving straight in with getting a new breed!
Thanks for all the help and i'll read the stuff you've all sent. As I'm a complete novice I do really appreciate the advice!!
:D