The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: ThomasR on April 01, 2017, 12:02:22 pm
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Hi
When bringing ewes into lamb how much space do you need per ewe? They are hebrideans so not too large, this is our first year lambing inside due to it being so wet last year we also put it back 2 weeks. I was planning on putting them in on wednesday for lambing starting saturday (they were all sponged), but am keeping and eye on the weather as I know you can't house wet sheep with out risking so serious health problems.
Is there also anything else I need to know or handy tips for lambing inside that I should know about?
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Farm assurance standards say for hill ewes 45-65kg in weight 1-1.2m squared per ewe, 1.8-2m squared for ewe and lambs. So I guess that would be what you need to aim for. I would bring them in a bit earlier than a couple of days though, they could lamb from 138 days which is about a week before due date. I brought my ewes in this year 2 weeks before their due date, in 3 separate groups so the later lambing ewes stayed out till middle of March. Have individual pens ready especially as you've sponged them and keep things as clean as possible, then providing ewe and lambs are ok get them back out asap too.
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Ok for my ewes i have something like 2.05 m squared for each ewe, worked out the exact number this morning. I would have brought them in earlier but I don't want them to get a respiratory disease. I have been through 2 lambing's before and this will be my 3rd however last year I was lambing more, I have reduced numbers to 12 ewes. Over the past years I have never had one lamb earlier than the day they were meant to with the hebrideans and actually they tend to be a bit late and I have spoken with other last summer and they say the same with hebs that it tends be a delayed start.
I have the hurdles disinfected and ready to go and be placed up for each lamber when required. So far I have tended to give the ewes 3 days to bond with their lambs, would you say this could be cut down. They have always been good mothers but really 3 days has always just been what I have done, never tried letting them out sooner.
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We follow the shepherding standard around here which is that they stay in the mothering up pen for one day longer than the number of lambs (assuming that the ewe's mothered up well and the lambs are thriving). We have the space to then transfer them to a "nursery" shed for a couple of days, where they learn to stick with their dam and not suckle from a different one, before going into the turnout field.
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Ok for my ewes i have something like 2.05 m squared for each ewe, worked out the exact number this morning. I would have brought them in earlier but I don't want them to get a respiratory disease. I have been through 2 lambing's before and this will be my 3rd however last year I was lambing more, I have reduced numbers to 12 ewes. Over the past years I have never had one lamb earlier than the day they were meant to with the hebrideans and actually they tend to be a bit late and I have spoken with other last summer and they say the same with hebs that it tends be a delayed start.
I have the hurdles disinfected and ready to go and be placed up for each lamber when required. So far I have tended to give the ewes 3 days to bond with their lambs, would you say this could be cut down. They have always been good mothers but really 3 days has always just been what I have done, never tried letting them out sooner.
My ewes this year stayed in pens for 3 or 4 days after lambing but then I didn't really have a nursery pen as such- we did try putting a couple of ewes and lambs in a big pen and they just fought until we split them up. Since then we have started calving too so the ewes stay in a hurdle pen for 3 or 4 days then providing the weather is ok have gone out. All my ewes are first time lambers though so you might get away with having them penned for a little less time if they are experienced. Providing your shed is well ventilated but not draughty and they have come in dry to a well bedded pen you shouldn't have an issue with respiratory disease. Some of ours were in for 4 weeks before lambing just due to the groups we bought them in in and they were fine.
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our shed is not bad but it isn't the world best ventilated shed so ideally I don't want them in a day longer than they have to be. I've been looking at the forecast for the past week and wednesday seems to be cloudy but no rain is due so fingers crossed.
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We've had snow every year at some point during lambing and have left our hebs outside to get on with it! Any lambs born in the snow to our cross breed sheep were taken in for 12-24 hours to make sure suckled but otherwise have stayed out. We have found on any occasion we have had a Hebridean sheep inside penned up that they get upset, and much more jumpy around us rather than outside where they have the option to run away, most will come right up to us!
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I have the same problem with ventilation so I'd open it up and give them as much space as you can. Agree with the others, I'd get them in at least a week before lambing.
I've not heard that about wet sheep before? Because the ventilation in my shed is poor mine have access to a yard during the day, I've never worried about them getting wet?
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I've not heard that about wet sheep before? Because the ventilation in my shed is poor mine have access to a yard during the day, I've never worried about them getting wet?
If ventilation is poor in the shed and they are housed tightly, coming in wet can cause pneumonia. So like Thomas we always gather our sheep when dry if at all possible (or damp... but never straight after or during rain), even if it means coming in a few days early. A deep straw bed will help too.
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3 mature tups and 4 of last years tup lambs were in there for 4 weeks no problem but I know that 7 boys isn't the same as 12 or 10 heavily pregnant ewes who are lambing.
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Thinking about maybe putting my most reliable ewes into the field to lamb outdoors but not too sure how a fully outdoors lambing system would work????
How do you catch the flighty wee things to jag and iodine them?
What if it snows?
What if torrential rain?
What if the mother isn't tending to the lamb properly and you can't really tell as they are all running around?
What if a predator gets a lamb?
As you can see I have quite a few concerns about it as I have always lambed outside and then brought animals in however this year thanks to the bloody bird flu going around the shed in the field are full of birds.
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we lamb outdoors because there is much less risk of infection and lambs getting mixed up. You do not use iodine on outdoor lambs as there is no risk. You either use electric fencing to contain in smaller field (if trained) or put in smaller paddock. Another option is to temp fence to contain and make temp paddocks. You can use hurdles to make a corner catching area. You also need a crook to catch the legs.
You need to check twice a day and catch hopeless mothers - bring them in.
Foxes need controlling - if you are in a risky area ask the boys to come to do an overnight shoot.
If it rains then they are fine. Again march around checking for hypothermia.
Its dependent on the breed we have easycare so hence small lambs. Overfat sheep (shouldnt happen) sheep that have been breed with wrong kind of tup only bring in more issues. Hence the reason for easycare for us.
My hens are going out next week.
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Thinking about maybe putting my most reliable ewes into the field to lamb outdoors but not too sure how a fully outdoors lambing system would work????
How do you catch the flighty wee things to jag and iodine them?
What if it snows?
What if torrential rain?
What if the mother isn't tending to the lamb properly and you can't really tell as they are all running around?
What if a predator gets a lamb?
As you can see I have quite a few concerns about it as I have always lambed outside and then brought animals in however this year thanks to the bloody bird flu going around the shed in the field are full of birds.
The way we do it:
We don't iodine or use antibiotic at birth as risk of infections is lower outside, but I catch to ear tag and castrate whenever I first see the lambs so no more than 12 hours old, as Hebridean lambs get up and running very quickly! If running, I use a crook to catch the lambs.
We have had snow a few times, and rain is very reliable at lambing time in Scotland! The lambs are so hardy that we only take in crosses for a night of born in snow to make sure they get a drink of milk in their bellies to keep them warm then back out, otherwise we've had multiple lambs born in the wet that do just fine.
If the mother isn't tending to the lamb, the lamb will look hunched or lie away from the others and you'll know there's a problem, but it's rare in native breed sheep if you let them get on with it, they're more likely to be nervous and potential to leave the lambs if you stand around watching them.
It is rare for predators to get them, the ewes are protective and the lambs are up and running in no time. We had two (ewe scanned twins) taken at birth last year, I found the ewe slightly cast on a slope and the afterbirth but no lambs, so a freak accident, she'd have easily seen off a predator if she could get to her feet!
My thinking is that there's either the risks of infections - pneumonia, watery mouth, joint ill, etc - if lambing indoors, or the risk of lambing difficulties or predators outside. With the hebs, I think the outdoor risks are lower than the indoor risks so that's the option we use, but it all depends on your facilities and experience and which situation you feel less risky for yourself.
Hope that helps
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Thanks
I'm really not sure and I think I will be deciding for a few days yet and will make a final one on Wednesday.
I don't want to put all the ewes into the one main shed as I think that 2m per sheep isn't that much when the shed isn't too well ventilated.
It is fine for a smaller number like 8 or so but never needed to put more that in so didn't think much of it. It is the shape of a polytunnel l except it is mate from corigated steel. (Sounds worse than it is) It does't really have many spider webs as one end is a brick wall with a big window in which allows ventilation and the other end is two massive wooden doors that open up and will be left open throughout lambing. The tups that were in for 4 months went in during a snow storm so where wet and they were fine with no respiration problems and that was with the doors locked at night.
After 4 weeks the hay was still reasonably dry and the floor was also dry, I will be putting down a layer of sawdust under the hay this time if I do decide to lamb indoors.
My main concern for lambing outdoors is mis-mothering, If she lambs and then leaves the lamb/s in the cold. Also what if the lambs aren't getting milk and the ewe is being stuborn.
When you say that hebrideans are fast things that is very true and after they are older than a few days that is it you have a very tough time trying to catch them when they don't want to be (much faster and more difficult and slippery than adult sheep). Hebrideans are tough things but I have found that ones from far south of the border can sometimes struggle, last year I had one ewe lamb and then refuse to stand up for a week (noone new why). I was going to just put her down after a week but on her 2nd last day she finally got up and started to let her lambs feed. That was one week of stomach tubing I won't forget (worlds most horrible job).
That ewe will be lambing inside even if she is doing it by herself I"m not having a repeat of that this year.
This year I have been giving the ewes quite a bit more feed later on in pregnancy which is to hopefully get us slightly larger lambs after last year generally small lambs except from the finally 4 who where rather large lambs.
As you can see I'm probably making a bigger deal of it than it is.
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It's all a matter of experiences, if you've had problems doing one thing and change so you don't have that problem again, it's called learning!
I've been in and around lambing for 20 + years :o so have seen so many systems, breeds and ways of doing things that I have had a good headstart in planning my own system for lambing, but it sounds like you're working out the best way for your own flock, and I'm sure you'll do just fine!
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Thanks for the help, I thought that I had it all good however the bird flu has ruined that system this year so hopefully all will be back to normal next year
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It sounds like a good plan to let the experienced girls lamb outside so you just have the first timers and any you anticipate might have problems inside.
I have primitives and primitive crosses, all lamb outside (in Cumbria until this year, now in North Cornwall) and I can't think I've ever had any concerns about any experienced ewes and their lambs. If there are any concerns or issues, it's almost always first timers. And if I need to get a family in, the experienced ewe will always follow her lambs, so is easily brought in.
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Thanks for all the advice. I managed to clear out the other stables so I have brought all the ewes in, this way they have over 3(squared metres) of space each. This way I can just go and do them all at once, it is closer to lights, water, food, hay, straw and the house. Plus it one shed has lights built in and the other has rechargeable LED work lights that I use. Brought them in today instead of tomorrow as It looked like it was going to rain.
Does anybody have ay experience using the wax stick markers to number lambs or does it not work well, I have found spray doesn't stay on well?
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We've not bothered numbering hebs as nothing shows well on black!
Last year we started ear tagging at birth and I can get close enough to all new mothers to read ?their tag and record whose lambs are whose.
Thereafter it's usually easy enough to make sure lambs are matched up with their twin (if they have) and mother, or at least up and running alongside a ewe that looks like the right one!
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Yeah will just tag at a few days old this year before they go out as it will make life easier
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They are now in and look happy enough and the handling was a tiny bit rougher than I would have liked as I had one ewe who refused to move whenever someone touches her she will just lie down but we eventually got there and they all see happy enough
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That was one week of stomach tubing I won't forget (worlds most horrible job).
I would stomach tube a weak lamb for the first and maybe second feeds but switch to a bottle as soon as it was strong enough to suckle - small lambs often get on better with a Pritchard teat.
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I have never managed to get a lamb properly onto the bottle, Luckily with hebs I don't have the problems other breeds often have when it comes to lambing. After a week the ewe finally got its act together and started to feed the lambs. Just on the countdown now, don't expect any before Saturday as I have never had one lamb before it is actually expected. I have one ewe that has ballooned in size in the bast week and has gone from looking like she is carrying a single to looking like a hot air ballon and lying down a lot more. Never had one increase in size before at such a rate so close to lambing.