The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Jessandkath on March 03, 2017, 08:57:32 am
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Hello all,
We'd like some advice please. We have a Jacob ewe, due in 10 days with her third lambs (not sure how many, we don't scan). She's lambed without assistance previously. She was checked by vet last Monday because one of our mothers thought she had seen water bag pop out and burst but there was no sign of anything and vet confirmed cervix was still closed. The ewe has been fine since. Today we saw her straining on her side and what appeared to be a vaginal prolapse but it popped itself back in and she again seems absolutely fine now. She's eating and moving fine and is not straining. What do we do? Harness? We've not had any prolapse cases in our flock or the flock ours came from for years (like 10or more years probably) so this is not something we're familiar with.
Thanks
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Just an up date to this in case it is ever useful for anyone - we spoke to our vet about this and she said that as long as the prolapse is popping back in on its own and isn't staying out long (she seemed to think 15 minutes ish was fine), it's best to just leave the ewe be. She told us to expect it to happen a few more times before lambing in 10 days (all being well) but if that is all that happens to just not worry about it. Obviously if it doesn't pop back in by itself it will need putting back. Now the vet said to bring the ewe down to them and they could put a stitch in to hold the prolapse in place which wouldn't interfere with lambing (as long as it wasn't a bad one) but I'm not sure about this. I think if it comes to that we'll harness her up (the ewe, not the vet!)
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In say 25% of these prolapses she will be fine and lamb ok , normally goes in and out when lying down . Unfortunately most go on to a full prolapse , staying out when the ewe stands . So long as you are ready to deal with this then all should be good
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I hate to go against the word of a vet but I don't think you can 'want and see' with a prolapse. It'd be awful to loose a ewe so close to lambing whenh it can be easily avoided. If she's 10 days off lambing and its popping in and out it'll get worse as the lambs are still growing and any knocks from the other ewes she gets might make it pop out and stay out. I'd put a prolapse harness on any sheep as soon as you see its prolapsed just for peace of mind. Of course once lambs are weaned the ewe should be culled as it will probably happen again the following year.
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I agree. The lambs still have about 10% of their growing to do. Every time the prolapse appears and goes back there's a risk of bacterial infection tracking up to the uterus. I would put on a prolapse harness on her asap, washing off the prolapse very gently with pure cotton wool and warm water mixed with a little Savlon liquid if the prolapse stays out long enough. As soon as the water bag appears or she's clearly straining to push out lambs the harness can come off - once the lambs have dropped into position to be born it takes the strain off the cervix.
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The first time I used one I was very concered that a ewe wouldn't be able to lamb with a harness on so I was checking every couple of hours so I could take it off at the first sign of her lambing. On the 2 occasions I've used one the ewe has lambed sucessfully on her own. I still can't quite work out how they managed to wiggle the lambs past the harness but they did it :)
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Thanks all,
We've checked her several times today and no sign of prolapse at all. We'll see. Appreciate your views re putting a harness on. We're going to go with our vet for now as she has been spot on with all advice for our flock over the last few year so far but I agree with you all that the lambs still have a good bit of growing to do so it's baler twine at the ready!
Re culling - I've read a fair bit of research suggesting that ewes prolapsing one year don't necessarily prolapse the next. Has anyone kept data on this? Just curious, we'll probably get rid of her anyway as we can do without the stress.
Thanks
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How much was popping out? We've had ones popping out a peach size prolapse with no proper prolapse following. What are they being fed?
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This has been discussed a few times on this forum , I personally have seen many ewes die after pushing their intestines out through a torn vaginal prolapse , many ewes die when the cervix opens and the lambs die in the womb and many ewes with an infection/damage after prolapsing which causes them to keep pushing for weeks . So my personal view is that its kinder to cull as soon as possible
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I was told that they prolapse because their pelvic floor muscles are weak. It could be genetic, could be age related or down to internal pressure. Maybe the ewe is fat this year, or maybe she has particularly big twins. Next year she might be lighter and the lambs smaller so you could be lucky, but as you say, its not worth the stress. Good luck with her, I'd invest in a harness just in case. Be very carefull of her, if the prolapse if out for too long it'll dry out and turn dark red/black, once thats happened there's no going back and you'll need the vets to have her PTS.
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Keep a close eye on her and if it continues to pop out them harness her. Stitching is just horrid and you have to be very watchful as they tear when they lamb if not snipped in time.
I had two last year show slightly then next check had shot guts out of back end which is horrific....they were over fat ewes though.
I have kept the odd prolapsed one til the next year and they have all reoffended worse so now it's culling after weaning with no exceptions.
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I had one with a small prolapse last year, the ewe was a bit fat. She lambed twins last week with no sign of it reocurring.
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With 10 days to go I would expect to need to fit a harness or spoon before she gets to lambing. If you're sure you can keep a close enough eye to deal with it promptly if it gets bigger and stays out, then you could hold off fitting a harness until that happens. If it does come out and get swollen before you get to her, wash it clean with warm water then apply sugar and wait a few minutes before gently reinserting. The sugar makes some of the oedema reduce, so you have less of a struggle replacing it, and it also acts as a natural antiseptic. Use lube, wear gloves, and be gentle. Expect her to wee down your arm as you get it back in place - her urethra will have been blocked! :). I always give a shot of antibiotics to cover against infection (and have never had an issue with the lambs after.).
They don't all reoffend, no. But for sure they're much higher risk.
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I read that prolapse can be due to a ewe's inability to access the calcium in its diet. I once experimented by keeping a prolapsed ewe and, the following year, injecting her with 10ml Calciject every week for the final four weeks before her twins were due. No prolapse. We've always culled, apart from that one ewe, and haven't seen a prolapse for five years.
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I'm in exactly the same situation with a maiden ewe, conflicting advice to cull or not as it's quite minor. Vet says don't let her lamb again... don't want to risk her doing it worse next year so she will go before the end of the summer- she's due next weekend.
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We had one last year with a grapefruit sticking out whenever she lay down, which started a couple of days before lambing. The worst bit of it was that I gave her an energy boost drench (badly :-[ ) which then made her cough, and each time she did......
In the end, she lambed normally, but then had an infection and a very smelly rear end. This cleared up with ABs and a pessary from the vet. Our vet was pretty relaxed about all of this, and said if she was his, he'd give her another year.
However, I think I'm going to follow your lead, Marches Farmer and give her Calciject as a precautionary measure (it's only a fiver a bottle after all). Another month until we know if the vet was right or not! :fc:
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I think it depends how many sheep you have to wether you cull or not. If you only have a few then keeping an eye on one that may or may not prolapse is not so much of a problem. If you have hundreds it's more difficult and quite frankly it's stress you can do without!
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I think it depends how many sheep you have to wether you cull or not. If you only have a few then keeping an eye on one that may or may not prolapse is not so much of a problem. If you have hundreds it's more difficult and quite frankly it's stress you can do without!
But then if the outcome is still the same, why take the risk? I only have a handful of sheep, more reason to make sure each and every one is productive, yes I may have more time but time spent on ewes that are ticking time bombs isn't really time spent productively? My ewe has a very mild prolapse that goes in every time she stands up, but decision made this weekend she's off and I'll buy a replacement with hopefully much less risk of prolapse next year.
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I wouldn't take the risk but can see why people with only a few would choose to.
Although it can't be very comfortable for the poor ewe :o
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We had a ewe prolapse as a first timer, got the twins out and one of them was breached and died before we could get it out. The other twin survived but was killed by a ewe a few weeks later :( The mother managed to make it through and we fattened her up and she is half of the mutton in our freezer, delish! I was talking to our vet a few weeks ago and she said that in cattle the first pregnancy they don't suffer with calcium deficiency but maybe the second or third. Would this also apply to sheep? In regards to the ewe any prolapse would be a get rid, how is her condition score? Both before and after she got into lamb and now?
All the best and I hope she lambs ok!
WBF
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Thanks all
Well, she's still doing ok. There was a tiny bit out when she was lying down this morning but it popped right back in as soon as she stood up. We'd pretty much decided to put a harness on her but couldn't get near her today (typical - usually so tame). If we can get her calmly without adding stress this afternoon we'll harness her up even if there is nothing - I'm working tues-thurs so don't have as much time to keep popping on and checking as we do when both of us are working at home.
In terms of feed - we feed ewe nuts in the run up to lambing. Done the same as every year. Having said that she is probably a little on the fat side which may be the problem. The others are not as fat.
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If you think she looks fat - she probably is - go against your gut and feed less (but obviously enough) - if you have a big lamb with a loose ringindy ring, its going to spell disaster.
Also I dont like seeing prolaspses - they get dirty and is an ideal way for infection on retraction
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To add to this- our ewe with the minor small prolapse had a much larger one tonight, although it did go back in on its own I didn't think it wise to risk it coming out again so we used a spoon and have given a long acting antibiotic. She's due to lamb in 4 days so hopefully will be ok but her cards are most definitely marked now and she will go for sure.
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I prefer to use a harness rather than a spoon. I think the spoon must be pretty uncomfortable for the ewe and also a potential source of bacteria tracking up the cervix.
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Thanks everyone. Well in the end we just decided to stop worrying and just harness her up. We used baling twine and packaged her up like a Christmas present and that did the job. I was pretty pleased with it given I'd never done it before. She lambed last Wednesday morning and we took the harness off once we were sure she was lambing. Triplets. The first and last came head first without legs so needed assistance but luckily we were there. They're all good size lambs so not surprised there was no room inside her! She is doing well with them and has all three well fed and out in the field with her and we're making sure she has plenty of food and water. Unfortunately we had twins born yesterday which have been rejected by a totally bewildered ewe - not sure what went on there but they were hypothermic and she was just staring at them. They are currently in our shower room but it looks like they'll make it now. They have both found their voice and appetite
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Great outcome, well done x :thumbsup: