The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: cambee on February 15, 2017, 01:04:14 pm
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Hi all. We are new to the forum and to smallholding although we have had chickens and some horses on livery for the last couple of years. This year we would like to get our first sheep and at the moment we are very busy securing all the fencing and putting up post and wire where we have dry stone walls. We would like pedigree sheep and I really love the look of Shetlands. Our land isn't great and fairly steep in parts so I think they might be suitable as a breed? Having read loads and been on a sheep course I feel fairly confident but I can't decide how best to start. I don't feel confident enough for lambing yet so I don't want to buy pregnant yews so what do you suggest as a starter herd- what age, how many and presumably just females? We want the sheep partly to help with the grass rotating with the horses and also for the freezer but ultimately if all works out we would like to breed. We have about 5 acres usable for sheep but want to start fairly small at first. I have in my head that either 3 or 6 is a good number? Also does anybody know a Shetland sheep breeder in the Derbyshire/Cheshire or Lancashire area? All advice appreciated. Thanks
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Buy couples (i.e. ewes with lambs at foot). Or buy in ewe lambs that will be ready to tup this autumn. (the latter being the easiest option as you don't have the stress of dealing with growing lambs, worming etc etc)
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I would buy a few store lambs and rear them on to kill in the autumn first before venturing into breeding ewes. Then you'll know if you can go right through and take them to slaughter, see what breeds suit your land etc. With primitive breeds you have to bear in mind too that the lambs take longer to finish so it's quite possible you'll have to over winter them and keep them until at least the following spring- so need to separate from any ewes running with a ram, and still have grass left for when lambing begins. A more commercial breed would finish by the first autumn and give you more space over winter.
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Shetlands are lovely. As well as giving you some very tasty low CLA meat, you get their fleece and you could get the skins tanned if you are eating any. They are small, easy to handle, sound as if they would do well on your less than lush grazing AND they come in all sorts of colours and patterns.
Yes, with Shetlands, if you lamb at the natural time of April, which seems appropriate for a primitive breed, then in order to have a fair sized carcass to make slaughter and butchery charges worthwhile you will have to overwinter them on grass and hay, then let them fatten on spring grass and send them off in July or August. For your extra trouble, you get a wonderfully flavoursome, slow reared meat animal.
Shetlands really do tend to lamb easily, perhaps not as reliably as Hebrideans, but don't require the high lambing input some breeds need.
We always recommend that you start off with three ewe lambs, so born in April and you acquire them in August at 4 months. Shetlands are not bred at one year ( they go to the tup 5 months before their 2nd birthday) so you have more than a year to learn about your sheep, get to know them and for them to get to know you. If you are still nervous of lambing, then Shetlands will come to no harm waiting another year to breed.
If you are desperate to have some sheep now, you could try to source wethers which will be 10 months at the moment, and raise them to slaughter in July/August, but that is not a cost effective way to go.
For information about Shetlands and breeders, go to the Shetland Sheep Society (not the one in Shetland) to enquire. Shetlands are no longer a rare breed, so there are many breeders to choose from in all areas of the UK.
As with all breeds of sheep, if you decide later that you don't like the breed, you just eat them :o
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I agree with everything Fleecewife has said. I'm going into my 2nd year lambing with Shetlands. Had about 8 ewes lambing last year and this year I have about 20. As Fleecewife said they're small and easy to handle.
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If you want to get the hang of things sheepy, I have some very tame Castlemilk Moorit 10 month old castrates (wethers) for sale that you could fatten over summer and take to slaughter in Autumn. (Yes, I know they aren't Shetlands but that was one of the breeds that went into them).
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Yes Shetlands are easy to keep, breed and handle in general, but only if you want to breed for your own consumption. There is a large surplus of breeding pedigree anmals for sale at any time, but unless you want to go into showing your sheep I would not start with pedigree stock. Unless you are well known in showing circles you will fail to sell your stock - which you may have bought at pedigree prices - for anything close to similar amounts. So getting a few wethers to start with should easy you in, and then I would buy ewe lambs at auctions or direct from a breeder, but at meat price. Many pedigree breeders, especially down South favour a very fine fleece, which seems to push the breed to smaller size.
Oh, and coloured ones do not make anywhere near as good carcasses as white ones, and white ones are easier to sell at market as hogget or mutton. But you dont get such lovely fleeces from them...
If you contact the Shetland Sheep Society you will have breeders falling over themselves to sell you stock, they are not a rare breed anymore and kept as non-commercial flocks all over the country.
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I wouldn't spend "proper money" yet. Either get a few wethers to fatten then eat/sell, to give yourself a trial run OR get some older ewes. My first sheep were a pair that were almost "retirement" age, so would have needed closer monitoring in a large flock, but were still fit and well and went on to lamb easily.
When are the Country Shows starting up near you? I love just going and having a look down the lines, you get a better idea for the size and temperament of the animals then. Shetland sheep are like the pony - small but cheeky and sometimes too clever.
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Thank you all for your responses and advice. I am reading, pondering. and will without doubt be back with more questionshttp://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif
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That was meant to be a smiley but IT is not my strong point!
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Many pedigree breeders, especially down South favour a very fine fleece, which seems to push the breed to smaller size.
One of the things the breeders in the 18th and 19th centuries found, when selecting breeds to improve various aspects of their native sheep, was that improving fleece only works for one generation and after that the carcase would suffer.
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Many pedigree breeders, especially down South favour a very fine fleece, which seems to push the breed to smaller size.
One of the things the breeders in the 18th and 19th centuries found, when selecting breeds to improve various aspects of their native sheep, was that improving fleece only works for one generation and after that the carcase would suffer.
Round objects.
Ex-BH breeds top class commercial sheep, one of the things he breeds for is 'a fine skin'. Not for the fleece per se, but for the easier lambings it confers. His conformation scores, and hence the prices his lambs fetch, have risen year on year, as has the quality of his fleeces.
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We started with 1 year old castlemilk moorit ewes and put them to the tup in our first year. We'll have had a year to get used to our ewes before the lambs arrive. If you're going for a primative ewes you could get them as ewe lambs and have a couple years before you need to think about lambing.
Dans
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I would buy a few store lambs and rear them on to kill in the autumn first before venturing into breeding ewes. Then you'll know if you can go right through and take them to slaughter, see what breeds suit your land etc. With primitive breeds you have to bear in mind too that the lambs take longer to finish so it's quite possible you'll have to over winter them and keep them until at least the following spring- so need to separate from any ewes running with a ram, and still have grass left for when lambing begins. A more commercial breed would finish by the first autumn and give you more space over winter.
This!
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Many pedigree breeders, especially down South favour a very fine fleece, which seems to push the breed to smaller size.
One of the things the breeders in the 18th and 19th centuries found, when selecting breeds to improve various aspects of their native sheep, was that improving fleece only works for one generation and after that the carcase would suffer.
Round objects.
Ex-BH breeds top class commercial sheep, one of the things he breeds for is 'a fine skin'. Not for the fleece per se, but for the easier lambings it confers. His conformation scores, and hence the prices his lambs fetch, have risen year on year, as has the quality of his fleeces.
I bet he had a somewhat larger gene pool to chose from... it is quite a small one for Shetlands...
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Despite what Anke says, pedigree Shetland prices are much the same as unregistered sheep. Show sheep can command slightly higher prices, but not a great difference. If you do want to eventually breed, then buying some of this year's lambs, August time, would mean you have 15 months before you need to think about breeding, plus some wethers for the freezer. There are plenty of breeders in your area. Going to the York rare breed spring sale or some local agricultural shows would allow you to make some contacts, and the Shetland Sheep Society web page has a page giving details of breeders with stock for sale by area.
By buying pedigree sheep, you are more likely to get sheep with good Shetland fleeces. The finest ones can be sold for £10 or more to hand spinners. White fleeces are of very high quality, but the point of Shetland sheep and the society in the first place was to preserve the coloured and patterned sheep. Fleeces from southern sheep are not shorter. Going for crimpier fleeces can make them seem shorter. The Shetland standard for fleece has a size range that most pedigree animals meet. The gene pool is quite large, I think.
Try and ensure you buy sheep that have been well handled and are bucket trained. They will be friendlier and you will find them easier to handle. Half a dozen would be a good starter flock, that you could build up by breeding over the next few years. Had you wanted to breed this year, I would have suggested buying some older ewes who have bred before, and know the score, which would be easier for someone lambing for the first time. Hope it goes well for you.
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Thank you all for the really useful tips. I'm going to read over everything with my husband and soon to be partner in full time smallholding over the weekend and gather my thoughts. Also we are going to look at some Icelandic sheep kept locally in the next couple of weeks as somebody has suggested that they are a similar keep to Shetlands.
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We keep Shetland sheep both registered and unregistered and so obviously biased. When first starting out with sheep we found it difficult to select a breed from the wide variety to choose from so we can sympathise with your position. We tried a few different breeds before settling on Shetlands and then built up our flock numbers.
It really depends on knowing exactly what you want the sheep for and trying to match the sheep breed to meet those needs. For us, Shetlands are the ideal breed for their wool and meat combined with their hardy nature and ease of handling. We also know and appreciate that they are not for everybody.
If you intend to breed then you will want to ensure that there is an outlet for your lambs. Fortunately for us, we have always sold our surplus stock. We now produce registered Shetland lambs and cross our unregistered Shetlands to a larger crossing ram to produce a larger more commercial lamb.
Our advice would be to start small with a pair of ewe lambs of whatever breed you feel suits what you are aiming to use them for and see how you get on. We found it is a very steep learning curve despite all the research beforehand. Build your numbers up slowly as you gain more experience and confidence before starting to breed.
Whichever breed you choose you will thoroughly enjoy the experience but beware as sheep quickly become addictive and have a habit of taking over your life.
Good luck with your new endeavour ;D
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Many pedigree breeders, especially down South favour a very fine fleece, which seems to push the breed to smaller size.
One of the things the breeders in the 18th and 19th centuries found, when selecting breeds to improve various aspects of their native sheep, was that improving fleece only works for one generation and after that the carcase would suffer.
Round objects.
Ex-BH breeds top class commercial sheep, one of the things he breeds for is 'a fine skin'. Not for the fleece per se, but for the easier lambings it confers. His conformation scores, and hence the prices his lambs fetch, have risen year on year, as has the quality of his fleeces.
E.g. If you breed in Merino to improve fleece the first lambs will, indeed, have better fleece. If you then put those lambs and to a Merino the carcase quality will start to decline.
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There are plenty of sheep with good fleece and a good carcase. Some Dutch Texels, some Cheviots, many Border Leicesters, for instance. Plus, you can improve fleece on your own stock by incorporating fleece characteristics from other sheep - we lightened the fleece on our Texels-out-of-Swaley-Mules by crossing with Charollais, and of course this also improved the carcase considerably.
It's nonsense to correlate fleece quality with carcase, the characteristics are not genetically linked.
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There are plenty of sheep with good fleece and a good carcase. Some Dutch Texels, some Cheviots, many Border Leicesters, for instance. Plus, you can improve fleece on your own stock by incorporating fleece characteristics from other sheep - we lightened the fleece on our Texels-out-of-Swaley-Mules by crossing with Charollais, and of course this also improved the carcase considerably.
It's nonsense to correlate fleece quality with carcase, the characteristics are not genetically linked.
Did you cross your Texels-out-of-Swaley Mules back to the Charollais a second time, after the fleeces had lightened?
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I would buy a few store lambs and rear them on to kill in the autumn first before venturing into breeding ewes. Then you'll know if you can go right through and take them to slaughter, see what breeds suit your land etc. With primitive breeds you have to bear in mind too that the lambs take longer to finish so it's quite possible you'll have to over winter them and keep them until at least the following spring- so need to separate from any ewes running with a ram, and still have grass left for when lambing begins. A more commercial breed would finish by the first autumn and give you more space over winter.
This has been a great thread, as I'm thinking of starting out with a few sheep too. [member=25072]twizzel[/member] - this is a really good recommendation. What's the time scale for this...ie if I wanted to get going this year, when can I expect to be able to get the store lambs and then when would they be ready for slaughter (approx)?
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There are plenty of sheep with good fleece and a good carcase. Some Dutch Texels, some Cheviots, many Border Leicesters, for instance. Plus, you can improve fleece on your own stock by incorporating fleece characteristics from other sheep - we lightened the fleece on our Texels-out-of-Swaley-Mules by crossing with Charollais, and of course this also improved the carcase considerably.
It's nonsense to correlate fleece quality with carcase, the characteristics are not genetically linked.
Did you cross your Texels-out-of-Swaley Mules back to the Charollais a second time, after the fleeces had lightened?
We did, and got seriously meaty girls but with fleece too fine for our climate.