The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Kitchen Cottage on February 04, 2017, 04:38:48 pm
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My best friend (male) has an extreme weight problem. He is around 28 stone and it disables him. He's had several vertebrae fused, his knees give him extreme pain and he is on high dose painkillers all the time. He can't walk 100 yards anymore, indeed I doubt he can do 50. He owns a small joinery company and takes his van 150 yards to his workshop and his, vegan, partner does all the running around.
He never really admits his health issues are weight related and claims his doctor says he heart, cholesterol and blood pressure are perfect. He constantly has small ailments and a lot of NHS money is spent on him.
He tries to lose weight and I bought him hypnotherapy sessions which seemed to help. We go through the same dance though, for about 3 weeks he is motivated and then he drifts into joking and cheating and getting cross if you call him on it.
I am conscious that, just as he is adopting the same behaviour, so I am I... nagging. His wife has given up on him and is quite angry that they don't enjoy the life she wants and that they used to have. She would certainly prefer a less sedentary life. Social life is almost totally restricted to eating out and drinking, he can't go on a plane and they go on holiday but just sit outside their caravan.
He is 53 and his wife is 60. I am terribly afraid we will lose him and certainly I think the next stage for him will be a disability scooter.
How do I encourage him. I know only he can lose weight.... but how can he be encouraged to stick to stuff.
I'm no supermodel myself (size 18-20) but I'm addressing it and do a lot of exercise to get my fitness up.
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Lots of people who need to lose weight just can't face being on a diet. When your day depends on painkillers it is very hard to get motivated. I have found for myself what is best is not to talk about being on a diet but keep a daily diary of everything I eat. Some days I am very good and others when things are being hard I find myself eating all sorts. Crisps, chocolate etc all the things I know are bad for me. In other words I comfort eat. Here is the thing though, when I see it all written down I feel horrified and give myself a good telling off. I used to eat and throw up for years, no longer do this but I am aware I have a big problem when it comes to food. Your friend needs to face this before he will make any real changes to his life. For myself because I do all my food shopping on line I am less tempted to buy what I call the wicked stuff. We do have a few little treats now and again but my diet is a lot better. I walk a few miles each week but slowly. It all depends on my pain levels. Pushing someone to lose weight does not work, the person must want to do it.
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Buy a copy of Slimming World mag. They have a mans section and all of the men seem to have lost loads of weight. You could pretend it's for yourself and just leave it lying about.
In some areas the Dr can also 'prescribe' a 12 weeks SW course so what would he have to loose, except the weight of course.
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I wish I knew. I wish you knew. I wish someone knew. It's an addiction and it's horrendous watching someone cause themselves and others real problems from an addiction.
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I personally do find "well meaning" friends who give (un-asked for) advise on something really personal to me (like my health/weight, career or lack of it, choice of dress/clothes etc) very intruding and rude. Why can't people accept me for the person I am?
And what is this about - using lots of NHS money.... why do you want to make feel people less valuable and "using up more of the scarce resources than they are entitled to?"???
TBH - someone else's body is no-one elses business but the person it belongs to!
Just my opinion though...
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Diet doctor website.
Of ALL the people I know, (dozens) all but a tiny handful have been on a conventional diet "eat less, move more" of one type or another, at one time or another (slimming world, cabbage soup, weight watchers, slim fast, even diet pills, they're all about the same). Plenty spend every January dieting and at the gym, others start again every month, or every Monday. Of ALL of these people, I can only think of one who has truly kept the weight off long term. Conventional dietary advice REALLY doesn't work that well. Your friend is doomed to fail.
Its a disorder. Telling an obese person to "just eat less!" is the same as telling an anorexic to "just eat more!" (For gods sake, it's food! How hard is it to JUST eat normally!?) Well given that about 1/3 of the country are overweight, unhappy about it and seem unable to lose weight or keep the weight off: Very.
A slim person, knows it's fun to overeat cookies occasionally but has no idea about the feelings of powerlessness, guilt, cravings, etc.
The addiction is driven by something being a bit broken in the head (whether it's purely genetic, some sort of depression, boredom, hormonal imbalance, etc,) and sugar/carbohydrate. For many obese people, a sandwich or even a bowl of porridge or some strawberries is the equivilant to booze to an alcoholic. The only way to beat it is to cut it all out, not to reduce consumption a bit.
Provide the information from the above website to your friend and hope he has enough drive to do it. It's a huge commitment (how many of us got slim by using semi skimmed milk instead of full fat?) NONE, because a couple of substitutions isn't going to cut it. Talking and thinking about the future, planning for ten years time, thinking about how he wants to feel, what he'll be doing, etc.
The good news is that exercise has been shown NOT to be useful for weight loss. He should do it for all the other health benefits, but it doesn't actually help weight loss (complete bed rest is more efficient).
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I agree totally with anke reply. Op, I'm sure the person knows exactly what his problems are, and you are stepping across a line by trying to get involved. An alcoholic, smoker or drug abuser has to choose to change, over eaters are addicted and trapped the same as any other addict. If you want to help, make him a healthy dinner. Invite him to eat together regular, provide tasty nutritious food, and let him make his own life choices.
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While I can see that you care about your friend and you want what's best for him, I do agree with Anke, Steph Hen and Mays. As a person who has struggled to lose weight for ages, through various diets, latterly Slimming World, my weight has always yo-yo'd. Now my rheumatologist tells me that most of my prescribed medicines from him will cause weight gain and that includes the pain killers.
As with any addiction, you have to want to stop before you can. Whenever anyone has a go at me about dieting (are you listening, Mum?) I either feels so rubbish that I reach for something stodgy to make me feel better or think, I'll decide what I'm going to eat and reach for something stodgy just to show them, or think, they say I've got no will power so reach ..... you get the picture? Let him know you are his friend whatever size he is. Bite your tongue when you worry about his health. You may find it builds his confidence and he cuts down without thinking about it.
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I have dieted very successfully - lost over 30kgs in 12 months - using the Harcombe diet. Rule 1 is to not be hungry. It turns conventional wisdom on its head, and because of Rule 1 it is much less scary to contemplate and much easier to stick to. Buy your friend Zoe's book Stop Counting Calories and Start Losing Weight (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Harcombe-Diet-Counting-Calories-Losing/dp/1907797114) - and don't nag ;). One day, when and if he's ready, he might start.
My doctor wasn't able to offer anything other than surgery, saying that their guidance is that for anyone 30kgs or more overweight, surgery is the only way that works. I didn't want surgery, so found a way that worked for me. I think it's criminal that there wasn't any nutritional support available through my local surgery - unless I agreed to being butchered. :rant:
All of which said, surgery is an option, of course, for someone who wants it. Some people do put weight back on after surgery, and there are significant risks, but for some people it is a good choice. That absolutely is a very personal choice, of course.
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It's no good pussy footing around the issue. Encouragement does not help. You need to tell him straight that his ailments are almost certainly caused by his excess weight and if he carries on he will die. Yes his B.P. may be ok, and his cholesterol etc, but one day he is going to die from his obesity. Tell him so, also tell him how much it upsets you as a friend to see him eating his way to death. If he carries on then he doesn't care, all addicts make excuses for their condition and falsely believe that it's not going to kill them, that's the mindset you have to get around. It will not be easy, it never is, but he must be made to see how much it affects the people in his life. Only he can make the change.
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I've been dieting for over half a century ??? and I just get fatter. It's affected my life badly. It's not that I can't diet - I can do a ridiculous crash diet as well as anyone. The effect on my body is to tell it that I'm suffering from a famine, so subconsciously my mind is telling me to eat. When I do, my subconscious works to make sure I put back all that weight I've lost plus a little bit more, so I will be more prepared for the next famine by having a larger reserve. This is an evolutionary, survival tactic which only doesn't work today because we have access to abundant high calorie foods.
You say you are also overweight KG but I promise you the fact that you are doing well with your weight control will just piss off your friend and have the opposite effect to encouraging him. The fact that his wife is annoyed with him will also make it worse not better. I really don't think a friend can ever persuade someone to diet, especially by saying 'look how well I'm doing. If I can do it so can you'. A slim person cannot have any idea of why a fat person cannot lose weight. You really don't have to eat all the pies to be fat, you just need to eat a tiny bit more than you need every day. I think the trick is to cut out something of about 100-200 calories a day, say crisps or a chocolate biscuit, and as long as something else doesn't sneak in under the radar, you will lose weight slowly but surely.
As many others have said, your friend has to make the decision to lose weight himself. Once he does, if he does, just give him quiet praise as he looks better. Otherwise you have to let him live his own life. It does sound as if his illnesses, including excess weight, are causing depression, which is something else no-one other than the sufferer can understand.
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It's no good pussy footing around the issue. Encouragement does not help. You need to tell him straight that his ailments are almost certainly caused by his excess weight and if he carries on he will die. Yes his B.P. may be ok, and his cholesterol etc, but one day he is going to die from his obesity. Tell him so, also tell him how much it upsets you as a friend to see him eating his way to death. If he carries on then he doesn't care, all addicts make excuses for their condition and falsely believe that it's not going to kill them, that's the mindset you have to get around. It will not be easy, it never is, but he must be made to see how much it affects the people in his life. Only he can make the change.
This is a high risk strategy. As FW says, he is probably depressed. Bullying won't work and could tip him into a worse state.
The way the medical profession treats obese people is cruel, in my view. They need help and neither it nor understanding are forthcoming.
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Lots of good advice.... I will buy slimming world but as for books, my friend prides himself on NEVER having read a book.
Personally I do think deep down he is suffering from stress/depression but that may well be a combination of weight and/or having three HORRIBLE spoilt adults sons at home who constantly say both parents should die and make way for the next generation.... they were very spoilt as children and as adults their mother still spoils them (if put under pressure they threaten suicide - all very odd).
I KNOW he's got a lot on his plate but I really don't think he has any time left to pussy foot around. The deterioration in his mobility in the last 5 years has been shocking.
I can't stand back and say nothing (I never have but it's not done any good either so perhaps I should have kept quiet). None of us would be surprised if he died in the night.
I think a LOT of his calories have, in the past, come from alcohol (though he tells me he has cut back). They have a caravan and, if going away for a weekend will take 2 litres of spirits, 3 gallons of wine (he makes his own), a case of beer or two for 21/2 days... and get through it. He told me he had quit this last year but, he told another friend that they've taken this for a weekend away this weekend, so he's telling me what I want to hear. If he ate what he admits to, he'd be a size 10. I worked out his BMR as around 3500 calories so he had to eat a lot NOT to lose weight.
He claimed amazing success with the hypnotherapy and portion control..... but it hasn't converted into weight loss.
I suspect there is nothing I can do :(
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What makes him your best friend? What do you like, appreciate or consider positive about him?
Other than the fact he has a joinery business (and that only in the negative context of his driving 150 yards to get there) I know nothing about him whatever except that he is morbidly obese and has a very difficult family situation where frankly it appears that he is probably making them happier (subconsciously) by continuing to kill himself. You say you nag and it seems to be unsuccessful plus makes you feel bad. But you want him to know you care so you can't stop?
So don't stop, change your method of telling him you care. Stop focusing on his weight and problems and appreciate some thing(s) consistently and openly instead. Nag him with your appreciation not your fear. Fill your relationship with what is good about it, things he does do, can do, wants to do. Feed (yes verb chosen consciously) his self esteem, feed his enjoyment of day to day life. Overeating for comfort or boredom is common, let him find other things to feed himself than food and it may not be too late.
Yes he has to decide for himself that life is worth living and want that enough to make changes. But for that he needs something to live for, times to be happy enough to want more. If his entire existence is full of criticism and neglect from others and from himself, then your best friendship gift is to create a little island of hope, not of being slim, not of losing fat, but of having a good enough to normal life, normal relationships/friendships, being accepted AS HE IS so that he can allow who he is to live and evolve through change. Changing to please others never ever works, because they don't love you more, they either love you, really you, or they don't.
So, do you love him? Right now? Or is he just an embarrassment, a walking example of how your friendship isn't enough to change him, how your success doesn't lead to his, how he drains NHS resource and what people might think of you being friends with someone like him. I would guess (without knowing him) that is how he sees himself, is it how you see him? If not, find a way of showing him what you value, what you get from him being in your life, how he fills a place in the world that would be missed. His family don't seem to be the people to do that, so maybe you, his best friend, maybe other friends if he has them, maybe you can.
The most successful life change stories come from people who find a reason to live. Find and feed, nurture, grow that and food won't be his only go-to to fill the void. Ignore the method, help him find a dream and believe in his ability to work for it. THEN ask how you can support his success, let him lead and walk beside him all the way. You can't push or drag someone's life, only be with them.
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Wonderful wise words from ellied :love:
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I agree. I've found many people with obesity problems have had food ingrained into their lives from a very early age. Not as a fuel for living but as something given by parents or carers to keep them quiet, as a reward for "good" behaviour or as a comfort they turned to when life became insecure or frightening, maybe because of illness, a difficult family situation or bullying at school.
Understanding why they view food in this way requires compassion and counselling to leave that behind.
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He is my best friend because he is honest loyal and a generous person. He is also male and I am not really very focussed on my girl friends who talk rather than do and over analyse.
He's the life and soul of the party type and is "big will", at his barbeque you'll find a board and tomahawk throwing.
He could never embarrass me, he's just a decent honest caring man.
Our connection isn't cerebral it's more fun and direct conversation
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This is an incredibly difficult subject with much wisdom shared. I agree with the reality that individuals have to want to change for change to occur, so understanding the root cause/contributing factors will be vital if you want to help. This is a very different proposition from just asking/telling people to change.
Behaviour change is very difficult to make - all of us have habits that we dislike but we continue with them. For some people the results are very visible, such as described here, but others are invisible. Just because you can't see the results for the habits each of us have doesn't make us any better than someone who is overweight or addicted to drugs. Sometimes reflecting on what makes change difficult for us can bring understanding of why it is hard for others.
I wanted to pick up on the alcohol. Some quick maths and basic assumptions (like the strength of the home brew wine) suggests to me that the weekend load you mention (at 1 case of beer) adds up to 8,000 kcal from the alcohol content alone (nevermind all the other energy content). Even split a couple of ways this is a major source of energy. Understanding why he drinks so heavily (it also works out to be 252 units) may be one in road to identifying strategies that could help. Perhaps forgetting the food entirely and seeing if he would seek help from an alcohol service may bear fruits.
Lastly, because change is hard with so many prompts around us undermining attempts to do things differently you need positive motivators to encourage and help you maintain it when things are difficult. Negative motivators are not as strong and changing things out of fear will only get you so far before resentment sets in. So helping him identify what he, as an individual, gains by making change and finding ways to reinforce these gains alongside opportunities to celebrate success along the way are vital.
So as a practical example I ask people who I'm helping give up smoking to identify what they gain as a result. For some people that is financial and I ask them what they intend to do instead with the money. For some that is a holiday they have dreamt of. So getting clippings from the brochures and putting them in a wallet, on the noticeboard, on the sun visor in the car and so on, where they provide a constant positive reminder of how they are gaining/benefitting, can provide that motivational support.
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I think professional counselling can often be a very positive thing. Having someone who is trained, who's entirely "on your side" with no axe of their own to grind, can be immensely beneficial. Just sitting in a room with a counsellor who's outside the circle of family and friends can provide a breathing space that allows a calm step back from the prevailing circumstances and a clear view of the situation that requires attention. It can allow the load to be shared without guilt or worrying about worrying someone you consider a friend.
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I agree about the alcohol and about the counselling. I don't think alcohol was mentioned early on, but someone who drinks so much is an alcoholic. This is a different problem to the overweight, although the cause of it, and really needs to be tackled by professionals. Your friend will never be able to lose weight drinking so much, and it could well be that he already suffers from malnutrition - in the sense of a lack of a healthy, complete diet.
From your description KC, your friend's drinking makes him the life and soul of the party, where everyone likes him. If that's the case then why would he want to change? The behaviour which is killing him gives him a very satisfying reward, which is far more relevant in the short term than the possibility of death.
Yes, he needs to see he has a problem and want to seek professional help - far far easier said than done. Families are broken apart by alcoholism, and lives destroyed. It makes we wonder about his history with his sons that they appear to hate him so much. Where is his GP in all this?
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Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.
Tell him straight. That his weight will end up killing him.
He probably will not react well but a couple of days later he will be fine, then you can start supporting him - exercising, diet etc.
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I think he already knows, deep down, that his way of life is bad for him. Doing something about it can be a huge and scary step and sometimes just too big without professional help.
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I think he already knows, deep down, that his way of life is bad for him. Doing something about it can be a huge and scary step and sometimes just too big without professional help.
Sounds bad, but he will know that every time he looks in the mirror. 28 stone calls for drastic action. Not side stepping the issue.
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I have been reading this thread and my advice would be that if he does want/need to lose some weight that it would be best for him to go to a doctor and maybe a trainer who looks at all aspects. Losing weight is indeed one thing, but you have to take into account health problems, if he has any? Example heart, blood pressure, etc, etc. You need to get a full checkup before you proceed onto a diet, especially if you are a little shall we sayover the weight you should normally be. The first step is though that you have to let the person recognise that they have a problem which needs to be fixed, its all very well telling people they have a problem, but it is entirely up to them if they recognise it or not and in order to deal with the problem they have to admit it is there, believe me it is very difficult. I myself am not slim and trim, I am a little too chunky for my own liking and I have a sugar addiction, which can affect my mental state. In order to help somebody you have to work with them, lending support all the steps of the way, gradually making changes to the diet which improve them. I am reading here that you say the reason for drinking is because maybe of loneliness? That in itself should I think be the first step, people need to spend more time and make him feel like he is loved and wanted, this in itself can yield good results, those people around him who love him and make him feel needed and wanted can help to change his diet by maybe saying to him that he doesn't need to do all this to feel loved or wanted, but that they love him and choose to be with him because of himself. Build up confidence and work with him suggesting various things. I hope I am not being too forward, I myself have a little experience of lonely and believe me it can be solved, but like I say it is a gradual process. I hope this helps and I am thinking of you all. I hope all goes well and that I haven't overstepped the mark by offering this advice, weight loss can be a very delicate subject and it is important to take into account everything :)
WBF
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I am a qualified fitness instructor and used to work in a gym and the only way someone looses weight and keeps it off is if they actually want to.
You can motivate, nag or beg but the only way it's happening is if the urge comes from within.
But if some actually wants to change you do it in small steps.
Make a small dietary change. Instead of chips unlimited leafy greens and broccoli unmolested (no sauce/salt/etc).
No cheat days but you can have a meal but instead of going KFC or pizza hut you have to make the cheat meal from scratch yourself
Move towards less simple carbs and evening meals just have a protein source, fibrous veg and a healthy fat source. you can get carb free noodles and rice made from konjac Flour ( smells like feet but once cooked smells and tastes fine.
Build up exercise from small walks and weight lifting. Loosing weight from cardio is hard. Work weights. Especially large muscle groups (squats/bench press/deadlift) Good compound movements burn calories.
Weights then cardio is the magic mix to loose weight.
Everyone in the house has to be on board. So the wife has to eat the same. It wont work if he is eating salad and she's eating pizza
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Just be his friend.
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I agree someone needs to want to change but what MAY be a way to faciliate that, if appropriate, would be to find them a dog needing a 1-2-1 home and some gentle exercise. Having a reason to take those first baby steps might just be an effective shove, and it also leaves plenty of scope to have sneaky support from friends - plenty of people meet up for social dog walks as well as making it more of an event :)
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Lots of good advice on this thread.
He sees his doctor a lot, he's in denial that his weight contributes to his many health problems and denies his doctor tells him it is.
He won't read and I don't think he'll see any kind of therapist. He DID go to hypnosis, which he said was working, but in truth that's a lie because if it was working as he claims I'd see results... and I don't.
His wife is slim and eats far less (obviously) but is so cross after years of Will's weight issue that she laughs at each new announcement that he's on a diet. That sounds like she is being harsh, but she isn't. Not only does she face people who blame her for his weight but her life is constrained by his weight. Stuff doesn't get done around the house, he spends a lot of time on his arse and they exist.
He wouldn't own a dog, he doesn't like them, I think for now I'm just going to encourage him to keep weighing himself (he has a weekly weigh-in at work as they are all on a diet) and hopefully his lack of progress will motivate him.
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You MUST -
Want to lose weight
Eat only when hungry
Eat real food
Don't eat at set times
This what I was told once when I said I'd like to lose weight - and it's the only advice that has actually worked. I'm a yo-yo, been fat since birth -my Mum came out of the clinic in hysterics when I was 6 months old because she had been told she was killing me - they thought I was on full cream milk but I'd never been on more than half cream, so it's 'in the blood' as they say.
I was doing fine with the above regime(lost 2 stone and got down to 13) then was put on steroids and back up I went. It's so much harder now, but the worst thing is the weight comes off so slowly and you get disheartened.
Your friend, KC, will ONLY try to lose weight if he wants to, you cannot help him now it's got to this stage.
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Doganjo,
You are right.... and I liked the quote (though funnily enough if I don't eat at set times I overeat).
He wants to be healthier and less disabled by weight.... but not enough to change things.
All I am doing is nagging him with blindingly obvious stuff and it's not working.
Sadly, I suspect none of us know the trigger in his mind that will work. :(
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A heart attack maybe? Provided it isn't severe enough to kill him.
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A large, full length mirror in the bathroom that you can't avoid looking in when you step out of the shower gives you a scare every day. Doesn't make the weight fall off though :'(
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And mirrored wardrobes :innocent: - I hate the bloody things! :rant: I've covered up one of them with pretty patterned film. :thumbsup:
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I think it's really sad that we - as a culture - think that nagging and shaming someone is a good, effective way to help them. It really isn't. A person knows how big (or not) they are, and I struggle to think of anyone who wouldn't know that "eat more vegetables, less sugar, and take a walk" is a good start.
So, we come to "why are they not doing this?" and you open a whole can of worms. Maybe the problem is physical. Maybe they are malnourished in terms of vitamins, so their body drives them to eat ANYTHING in an attempt to extract nutrition (I've noticed I'm prone to this). Maybe they are depressed, and think they are not worthy of good food and good health. Maybe they have so much going on that they have no time to cook or walk. Perhaps they are now in a state where moving and standing to cook causes physical pain.
I don't have an answer, but what I think I would do in a similar situation is:
Give the guy a break. Don't be another negative voice. Don't even mention it.
Offer to share healthy things, e.g. if you're seeing each other for lunch, or going on a nice stroll round the local park. But don't have this be the focus of any time you spend together. Do other stuff!
Perhaps - depending how close you are - find out if there is a hobby or a passion they want to do/try. Encourage that. Sounds like he has a rough home life, so any respite can only be a good thing. Maybe he'll decide later that he needs to change his lifestyle to be able to particpate fully in the hobby. Maybe he won't.
Remember he is his own responsibility. YOUR smart move for YOU might be working on accepting that. You could be a good friend, but you can't wave a magic wand. The consequences are not your responsibility.
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Iyou can get carb free noodles and rice made from konjac Flour ( smells like feet but once cooked smells and tastes fine.
You're not selling it ......
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A large, full length mirror in the bathroom that you can't avoid looking in when you step out of the shower gives you a scare every day. Doesn't make the weight fall off though :'(
I am adept at NOT seeing myself get out of bed despite the full size mirrored doors on our wardrobe. :roflanim:
Somewhat offf topic but if any of you use disabled toilets, have you noticed how many off them have the mirror directly opposite the actual toilet. Don't know about you, but watching myself is not something I ever want to do while mid-pee (or worse).
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A large, full length mirror in the bathroom that you can't avoid looking in when you step out of the shower gives you a scare every day. Doesn't make the weight fall off though :'(
I am adept at NOT seeing myself get out of bed despite the full size mirrored doors on our wardrobe. :roflanim:
Somewhat offf topic but if any of you use disabled toilets, have you noticed how many off them have the mirror directly opposite the actual toilet. Don't know about you, but watching myself is not something I ever want to do while mid-pee (or worse).
:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
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Maybe let him read this thread!!!
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Iyou can get carb free noodles and rice made from konjac Flour ( smells like feet but once cooked smells and tastes fine.
You're not selling it ......
:roflanim: We do call it foot rice in our house. Works well when cutting weight
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Update on this... well, my friends diet has taken a nose dive. For a year he's claimed he's on a diet and he's lost no weight. Given that his BMR is around 3,500 calories, he isn't making changes. He came here and bought lunch from a garage, he had a French stick, a pack of ham in it, a pack of cheese on top, some tomatoes, a giant packet of chilli dorito's and a packet of chocolate hobnobs. He said it was a "treat", but you couldn't eat all of that unless you were used to it.
His next step will be an electric invalid chair and death :(
He's just lying about his eating and until he stops that nothing will work.
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Until the person themselves are ready to lose weight then all the pushing in the world cannot achieve it.
I have been on a number of diets on a number of accessions and lost some then drifted back. that is despite having a heart attack and a triple bypass. for me, it came together last Nov and i am dieting, losing weight and finding it not too hard. I am not a zealot at it and still go off the rails, but only for a night, or a trip away and then back onto it.... lost 4 inches off my waist and 2 stone so far (wife is better than me at 3 stone plus )
just beware as pushing too hard when they are not ready, may result in the opposite reaction and they eat more
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If wife is thin and boys threaten suicide there is much more going on here than bad diet.