The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: twizzel on January 23, 2017, 02:34:33 pm
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I am just starting to feed my ewes now they are going into the latter stage of pregnancy. The current bag of sheep nuts I have are mole valley Champion ewe 18% which I bought on advise from MV staff to feed when the ewes were still in with the ram (i.e. safe for the ram to eat too). The lady asked if I had any rare breeds when I bought them and I said no- my ewes are Lleyn x Texel, neither of which I would say are a rare breed. Upon reading the label it says don't feed to copper sensitive breeds with Texel in brackets. My question is does this apply to purebred animals only or those crossed with a Texel? My ewes are out of ped lleyn ewes and by a ped Texel. The sheep have had very small amounts of these nuts in the last 8 weeks just to keep them tame, but I'm starting to feed every day now and not sure whether I need to buy a new bag of nuts or whether I can finish this bag off before starting a new one?
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MVF Champion Ewe is a ewe only feed AFAIK - unless the label says differently? Does it say "ewe feed" or "don't feed to rams"? Personally I wouldn't be feeding that to my ram. (I use MVF Premier Ewe 18%, which has a bit more energy in it than the champion ewe.)
As for the copper - I would suspect that you would be ok with a texel cross - loads of farmers use those MVF feeds.
Is your ram staying in with the girls? If so, unless you can confirm for sure that it is safe for the ram, I would switch to a general coarse mix which is ram friendly.
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No the ram went at the beginning of December. MVF said that ewe nut was suitable for him too- not a huge issue as he had very small amount :rant:
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Oh well, that's ok then. :) I wouldnt trust what the store person tells you, always read the label yourself (or manufacturers website etc).
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So does anyone know of a list on tinternet that gives information on which sheep are copper sensitive?
Regards, David
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There are certain traditional breeds which are very copper sensitive and I have heard texels are too? There should be a few breeds listed somewhere on the forum in another thread which are indeed copper sensitive. I think whitefaced woodlands were mentioned too?
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There are some breeds listed here: http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/copper-poisoning-in-sheep.aspx (http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/copper-poisoning-in-sheep.aspx)
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So after a lot of research this afternoon, 2 feed stores and 2 very helpful members of staff, I spoke to a chap at Harpers who confirmed a few things for me. Crossbreds are succeptable but not as much as purebred animals of certain beeeds I was right to question. Breeding ewe nuts have minerals added to them to suit lamb growth/ewes in late pregnancy and these minerals have low traces of naturally occurring copper in them- therefore most bags of ewe nuts will have the copper warning on them. If nuts are fed in under 0.5kg feeds they should not have adverse affect on the ewe- if you need to feed more than that then split the feeds (which most people would do anyway). If feeding more than 0.5kg at a time you could risk copper poisoning. These breeds are more succeptable to poisoning as they are able to absorb and store it more than other breeds. So hope that helps a little, mr man from Harpers was very helpful.
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Thanks for that link, Foobar. However, they don't mention many breeds, do they! There must be a list somewhere, right?
Regards, David
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Thanks for that link, Foobar. However, they don't mention many breeds, do they! There must be a list somewhere, right?
Regards, David
"North Ronaldsay, Texel, Suffolk and several continental short-wool breeds of sheep are relatively susceptible" ... so that would also include Charollais.
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There are certain traditional breeds which are very copper sensitive and I have heard texels are too? There should be a few breeds listed somewhere on the forum in another thread which are indeed copper sensitive. I think whitefaced woodlands were mentioned too?
Hi WBF!
I had a search when I read this, as we've got whitefaced woodlands... I can't see anything mentioned in the usual places.... do you have a link?
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Hmmmmm [member=7747]farmershort[/member] looking back through I can't find it, but I was sure I read somewhere that they were, but will have to do more research? :thinking:
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This is the only other quote I can find on the subject of copper: "Generally, the down type, medium wool sheep of British or European origin, are the most susceptible to copper toxicity. Sheep from Texel breeding are the most susceptible to copper toxicity. Fine-wool type sheep are intermediate in susceptibility to copper toxicosis, while sheep with a high percentage of Finnsheep breeding are least susceptible to copper toxicity." Which isn't particularly specific.
If in doubt, only use a feed that contains a copper antagonist (i.e. molybdenum).
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I'm yet to find a ewe feed that doesn't have a copper toxicity warning on the label- not because they purposefully add copper to the feed, but the minerals a ewe needs late pregnancy seem to have natural copper in them. I went to 3 different feed stores on Monday and after speaking to the harpers chap he put my mind at ease... i.e. don't overfeed and split feeds if necessary.
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Copper builds up in the liver over time, so I'm not 100% convinced by your Harpers man's story about split feeds. The copper wouldn't dissipate in a matter of hours, it would be more like days. That said, as long as you are only feeding for a few weeks then you should have no bother. It's when ewes are housed and they get that feed for several months as one of their primary food sources then you get the copper poisoning. If they are out on grass on only being fed for say 6-8 weeks then you should have no bother.
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The zwartbles year books warn about copper poisoning as the breed is susceptible.
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Please also remember that certain land area's are copper deficient and then you need to supplement your sheep . while I have seen many copper deficient sheep and cattle iv'e never seen copper poisoning , even when some breeders feed extra copper because it can make black sheep even blacker and shine'er ( not condoning just stating )